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  1. #1
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Determination gap to primary stat debate (higher than we thought?)

    I've seen a lot mention that 2 DTR = 1 of a primary stat (str, dex, etc.)

    Hubby came across this which says it's more like ~6



    (Go to 5:27 - 8:31)

    Calculator site:

    http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=195

    Info on how the site owner got his data to make the calculator:

    http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=179


    So BG mathies, how accurate is this site? How does it compare to the testing those have done previously?

    Is it possible that DTR was worse than initially thought?

    If true, DL just got worse.

  2. #2
    Yoshi P
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    The testing says that data was collected for varying values of determination while strength and weapon damage were kept constant, but there's nothing of the sort shown in the graphs or formulas. Right now it's just using a correction formula based entirely off all the tests using a constant determination value of 202. Until I see some data that actually shows a varied determination I can't bring myself to use it as a basis for saying 1dtr = ~6stat.

  3. #3
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    He did vary the determination to get the resultant formulas. He didn't highlight that bit, so you probably missed that. The 2:1 ratio is definitely incorrect. I've been doing magic tests and my samples definitely disprove 2:1 ratio, so that's incorrect for magic at least. The 1:6 ratio could be correct but weapon damage has an interaction effect with primary stats and possibly determination (Variance seemed to suggest the resultant equation was within acceptable significance, but I don't know how accurate excel was with calculations).

    To clarify Valk's method, look at how he's piecing the equation. You have an interaction effect between STR and wDMG (And none between wDMG and DET or STR and DET supposedly). That means the contribution of STR and wDMG depend on each other. So what he does with the first equation is figure out dDMG/wDMG v STR. This gives the average increase in dmg per wDMG at a given STR value. That basically gives you the dmg contribution from wDMG. So now you need STR's contribution and he accomplishes that by plotting the Yintercept of the the graphs to find out the slope. This is where you get tricky because that resultant Yintercept is both the damage from STR AND DET. This is where the data is obscure and tricky. We don't see the tests for determination but the assumption seems to be that DET and STR don't have interaction effects. If you use that assumption, you say "these values are N and determination 202 contributes a static S value; since DET is kept constant, dY/dX should denote increases from STR." So the last bit is to get DET's effect and he simply repeated the steps to get the dmg increase per determination.

  4. #4
    Yoshi P
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    He did vary the determination to get the resultant formulas. He didn't highlight that bit, so you probably missed that.
    Ah I see it now. The only two graphs in question didn't have the axis labeled so I didn't realize the DTR was being varied there. It's still currently only a correction function, although it should be relatively trustworthy.

  5. #5

    A tl;dr in English and the folks that failed high-school maths please?

  6. #6
    Kaeko
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    I can talk this over with Valk tonight in LS but I can tell you the formulas on that page are more likely to be correct for melee than magic damage. Magic damage was tested rather informally by myself in beta phase 3 while Valk did the brunt of the melee formulation. We only did enough to ballpark that they would operate "similarly". DTR on magic damage was never even tested to my knowledge. Others my LS say DTR is extremely underwhelming when testing on THM/BLM. Either way, the testing was done in beta phase 3 - it requires verification at some point. The formulas are not completely fleshed out or verified.

  7. #7
    Fake Numbers
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    Using the damage returns calculator, it is closer to 1:7 ratio than 1:6 for STR

  8. #8

    Yes, 6.89 is indeed closer to 7 than it is to 6.

    Thank you for clearing that up for everyone.

  9. #9
    WASTE OF CURRENCY
    I CAN'T I CAN'T I CAN'T

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    Is healing a bit lower than that? It looks like healing is more around 4.75ish from my 5 minute tests lol.

  10. #10
    a p. sweet dude
    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!

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    I'm not entirely sure how these numbers were obtained or how the test was conducted, but the numbers in this guy's spreadsheet seem to differ significantly in the STR:DTR department from the testing linked in this thread.

  11. #11
    Bard-turned-Miner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    I'm not entirely sure how these numbers were obtained or how the test was conducted, but the numbers in this guy's spreadsheet seem to differ significantly in the STR:DTR department from the testing linked in this thread.
    While there are some small differences, this is pretty close to accepted values on DRG, too.

  12. #12
    a p. sweet dude
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    So STR:DTR is closer to 1:4 than 1:7? I don't entirely understand the values in that spreadsheet, haha.

  13. #13
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    On DRG, DTR is .218 to 1 STR. That spreadsheet says .3 to 1 STR I think. (Info from DRG thread on OF, not my own data.)

  14. #14
    Banned.

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    Right now it's just using a correction formula based entirely off all the tests using a constant determination value of 202. Until I see some data that actually shows a varied

  15. #15
    Relic Shield
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    Goin for that year and 3 month necro bump!

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