Summoner / Scholar sort-of in-depth

[Judai]

make a macro for Contagion/Aerial Slash, hit it once, do w/e, bane w/e it goes through.

/micon "Contagion" pet
/pac "Contagion" <t> <wait.1>
/pac "Contagion" <t> <wait.1>
/pac "Contagion" <t> <wait.1>
/pac "Contagion" <t> <wait.1>
/pac "Contagion" <t> <wait.1>
/pac "Contagion" <t> <wait.1>
/pac "Contagion" <t>

[lilbubbles]

She can't use contagion until she is done casting wind blade, if you want to be able to use contagion right away make sure she isn't casting wind blade.

[Taim Meich]

Contagion is as you describe, and there's not much you can do about it. I fill the void as well with a swiftcast Shadowflare or a Ruin 1/2/3. Well, now that I think of it, maybe a macro that first uses steady to force Garuda interrupt its current cast, then contagion, then obey again will work. But I don't find it necessary, even if some times the delay annoys me.

Regarding placement, most of the time, Garuda is fine on heel (follow). For raids, the key is usually finding a spot that will let it attack all the enemies and not get destroyed. In most fights that one spot is easy to locate.

[Niiro]

She can't use contagion until she is done casting wind blade, if you want to be able to use contagion right away make sure she isn't casting wind blade.

Pets queue commands much like players do, you only have to hit Contagion once and it'll be used after the current action is complete.

This

/micon "Contagion" pet
/pac "Contagion" <t> <wait.1>
/pac "Contagion" <t> <wait.1>
/pac "Contagion" <t> <wait.1>
/pac "Contagion" <t> <wait.1>
/pac "Contagion" <t> <wait.1>
/pac "Contagion" <t> <wait.1>
/pac "Contagion" <t>

is unnecessary, unless you want to hit it before the recast is up or something.

[Tsuki]

That's exactly what my contagion macro looks like too. There are many instances where she's not even doing anything and it still doesn't go off. This macro gets the job done. That said, I have seen random parts of the new content (and even in t13) where garuda is randomly doing nothing and I have to re-obey her to get her doing anything.

[Shalafi]

I started to notice this back in T10; think it's related to switching targets (i.e. adds) and their death.

[Taim Meich]

Exactly, some times (but not always), when an add dies, Garude stays there, silently, doing nothing. I tend to spam obey on whatever I'm attacking, but the times I forget and I see Garuda idling, it drives me nuts.

[Spider-Dan]

Pets queue commands much like players do, you only have to hit Contagion once and it'll be used after the current action is complete.

This isn't true (or more accurately, it's not always true). There are many instances in which you can issue a command to your pet (particularly: fairies) and have it overridden by pet AI priority.

I'm sure many SCHs can testify that simply sending one Whispering Dawn input in a situation where there are many low HP party members (and Eos is spamming Embrace) has resulted in an ignored command. Hell, I have Fey Illumination and Whispering Dawn on the same macro (with multiple repetitions) and I've STILL seen situations where Eos does Illumination, I look up 15 seconds later, and WD never went off.

[Mistress Stowastiq]

Hope this is not resurrecting an otherwise inactive thread but it seems like the best place to post my question. I re-read the first 6-7 pages and then began to realize how much stuff has been updated/nerfed since OP so it is better to ask outright.

On SMN pet rotation:

Using Shadowflare; I have issues trying to figure out when to use it since the info on the spell states it "Cannot be used with any other area creating actions." I'm guessing once it is up I cannot usefully cast any aoe spells and properly utilize egi's aoes . I am assuming that Bane is an "area creating" spell for example as well as pet's Aerial Slash.

So shouldn't Shadowflare be at the end of my rotation when I do use it? When I say "end of rotation" I mean after casting all my dot's, using Fester, and after Contagion, while waiting for my cd to cd in a situation where more than one mob is in the area.

For instance, would Miasma II even work on a mob in a Shadowflare bubble if its cast after the mob entered the bubble?

With Contagion:
When to use it? since it has its cd I would prefer to use it as wisely as possible to avoid wasting it.

Apologies for newb questions! I appreciate any info and corrections!

"Do u really not know all of this by now?"
Yep I am new to endgame content especially partying so please don't be surprised at my lack of info.

[Raldo]

Using Shadowflare; I have issues trying to figure out when to use it since the info on the spell states it "Cannot be used with any other area creating actions." I'm guessing once it is up I cannot usefully cast any aoe spells and properly utilize egi's aoes . I am assuming that Bane is an "area creating" spell for example as well as pet's Aerial Slash.

It means you can't use it with any other action done by you that targets an area on the ground rather than a specific target. These are not the same as your usual AOE attacks. Miasma II, Bane, and any other AOE you can think of is completely unaffected by your use of Shadowflare.

Actions that meet this "area-creating action" criteria:
Flaming Arrow
Shadowflare
Sacred Soil
that new WHM bubble
a few PvP actions

"Why does it say that when I, as a SMN, don't have any other area-creating actions?"
Because Scholar does. That text is there to tell you that you can't have both Sacred Soil and Shadowflare up at the same time.

"Titan's Enkindle is an area-creating action. Does that mean these can't be used together?"
No. Titan's area is tied to titan, not you, so you can have both it and Shadowflare up at once.


I don't SMN enough to give a qualified response on the Contagion question (I'm lv57), but I follow two rules:
1) Am I going to Bane soon and it's up? Use contagion, then Bane once the effect is applied.
2) Am I fighting a single-target? Use contagion whenever all DoTs are up (note: Contagion does work on the Miasma II effect as well!).

[Niiro]

Using Shadowflare; I have issues trying to figure out when to use it since the info on the spell states it "Cannot be used with any other area creating actions." I'm guessing once it is up I cannot usefully cast any aoe spells and properly utilize egi's aoes . I am assuming that Bane is an "area creating" spell for example as well as pet's Aerial Slash.

The only thing shadow flare conflicts with is Sacred Soil for SCH, it has nothing to do with normal AoEs, only placed ground effects.

It always worked like that it just wasn't originally specified in the tooltip.

[Clash Perez]

Contagion is best used when your DoTs were cast with Raging Strikes up, and/or just before using Bane to spread DoTs. The Contagion cooldown is short enough that you can use it between Raging Strikes too, so try to fit it in somewhere, when you'll have enough time for it to be off cooldown for the next Raging set of DoTs.

Like it was mentioned above, Miasma II is affected by Contagion as well, which makes it a slight DPS gain on single target if you use it in concert. The DPS gain is small enough that it's not a big deal to skip it, particularly if you're not already close to melee range.

[Taim Meich]

Also, Tri-Disaster, Dreadwyrm Trance, and Contagion all have 1 minute cooldown (DT's cooldown is really Aetherflow's), so they align nicely and you can fit a set of extended dots with 15% extra potency every minte, in addition of the extra 20% potency you get every 3 minutes with Raging Strikes.

[Shalafi]

Hmmm, I typically open with RS and have been having a hard time getting synced with it later in the fight; maybe I should change that and try sync with DwT and throw in RS when available.
The only problem I see is that most other DPS drop their buffs at start and I could miss out on some huge dps.

[Taim Meich]

There's a few guides out there regarding SMN's opener, but you idealy want a first set of unbuffed DoTs to quicly dump all your initial Aetherflow stack (and here comes the disagreements, some say 1 Fester 1 Painflare 1 Energy Drain to get into Dreadwyrm Trance fast and align with Battle Litany/Trick attack etc. better, others say it's better 2P 1F, others prefer 2F1P for the higher potency), so you can pop Dreadwyrm Trance + Raging Strikes + a new Aetherflow stack and apply in the DT window a fresh set of doubly-buffed DoTs extended with Contagion, plus one or two Festers (depends on when you last used Fester before), plus all the Ruin III's you can fit before Akh Morn. Then it's a matter of holding your Aetherflow stack usage so you can again align every minute DT+Tri-D+Contagion, adding RS to the mix every 3 minutes.

[Shalafi]

Ya, I know of a few guides, I've just been too lazy to actually watch the vids and only skimmed the openers as I was reading for more detailed reducing dps loss info.

*Sigh* I guess I'll have to re-look and test it myself to see which I like better.


Thanks!

[TheDirtyHobo]

So, I'm likely going to be switching to SCH for our group. In a real raid situation, is there any realistic use behind emergency tactics? I'm struggling to come up with one that doesn't seem contrived.

[Crizto]

I generally have used it in rare AoE occasions. One the sometimes comes to mind is the transition in A3S from the add phase -> final phase. First Succor is cast to give everyone a shield, but there is still some topping up to do so rather than blow Indom I'll use Emerg. Tactics + Succor. Or maybe you'll find some times where you could Succor but you know the shield will not be used in the next 30 seconds, so may as well Emerg. Tactics it. If you're restricted on when you can use Indom, it's not a bad option to pair with Succor basically. I don't think I use it on purpose for Adlo though because usually the shield always takes full effect so Emerg. Tactics just creates a possibility for over-heal.

[Spider-Dan]

Seems like the primary uses for Emergency Tactics are:

1) Healing up a DRK during Walking Dead (which is rough if you are caught without Lustrates)
2) AoE heals after big party damage (e.g. Gigaflare) in a 2 SCH party

[TheDirtyHobo]

I generally have used it in rare AoE occasions. One the sometimes comes to mind is the transition in A3S from the add phase -> final phase. First Succor is cast to give everyone a shield, but there is still some topping up to do so rather than blow Indom I'll use Emerg. Tactics + Succor. Or maybe you'll find some times where you could Succor but you know the shield will not be used in the next 30 seconds, so may as well Emerg. Tactics it. If you're restricted on when you can use Indom, it's not a bad option to pair with Succor basically. I don't think I use it on purpose for Adlo though because usually the shield always takes full effect so Emerg. Tactics just creates a possibility for over-heal.

If there's no damage coming out in the next 30s I feel like whispering dawn or medica 2 is obviously the better choice and the occasional fairy embrace. If you need to cap immediately, it would also need to be a situation where the aetherflow stack is required to be used on lustrate, otherwise you're eating a huge wad of MP or significant potency loss for nothing; succor+lustrate 1326 MP 3000 potency vs. Succor+ED 2400 potency ~700 MP vs. Indom 3200 potency 0 MP.

Seems like the primary uses for Emergency Tactics are:

1) Healing up a DRK during Walking Dead (which is rough if you are caught without Lustrates)
2) AoE heals after big party damage (e.g. Gigaflare) in a 2 SCH party

Double SCH is the obvious answer, but that's why I specified "real raid uses." Walking dead is pretty legitimate, though. We don't have a DRK so I hadn't thought of it, but it's good to keep in mind.