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  1. #1
    The Optimistic Asshole
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    WHM Theorycrafting and gear progression

    I'll may try to edit a more extensive progression thread as the discussion continues forward, but I seen there's no WHM thread here, so here it is.

    Anyway, gear question...

    I'm trying to get out of darklight cowl and get into vanya body + some hat. I've seen a lot of WHMs wear rose gold circlet, but I'm not certain why. Here's the HQ stats of each.



    So VIT and MND are the same

    Rose gold has 11 DET and 9 Crit
    Vanya has 11 PIE and 11 Crit

    So now it's down to melds. Vanya will take 11 DET afaik, matching the rose gold, then another 15 SS. If we do 2 QTIII, we'll put it at 12.

    Melding Circlet, you can do PIE7 and Splspd12

    So post meld,
    Vanya will have VIT12, MND12, PIE11, Crit11, DTM11, Splspd12
    Circlet will have VIT12, MND12, PIE7, Crit9, DTM11, Splspd 12

    What am I missing here, why are WHMs getting the circlet over the vanya hat? Is there some better meld combo I'm not seeing (TIV withstanding r/t insane prices)?

    As far as gear progression, once I get these two peices finished, I'll probably go cleric legs before body. Went +1 Thyrus first obv. It seems to work out better that way, especially considering the legs are BIS and the cleric chest vs allagan chest probably goes to allagan unless you're stacking a SS build.

  2. #2
    D. Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche View Post
    What am I missing here, why are WHMs getting the circlet over the vanya hat? Is there some better meld combo I'm not seeing (TIV withstanding r/t insane prices)?
    I've never noticed a WHM wearing one (circlets aren't large, so I probably just assume they have their hat turned off), so I can only guess, but perhaps they're getting a multi-purpose hat that's good for healing as well as nuking jobs. With the circlet's INT, you could easily turn around and use the same hat on BLM or SMN.

    Does the HQ Rose Gold Circlet really not gain the extra 2 points of crit vs NQ though? For some reason, I was thinking that all HQ items always got a bonus to all stats. I don't know if there's a database that includes HQ stats.

  3. #3
    The Optimistic Asshole
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    I checked two places, and it stayed at 9. There wasn't one on the MB for me to confirm, but xivDB and the spreadsheet I have both say 9.

  4. #4
    Bagel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche View Post
    I checked two places, and it stayed at 9. There wasn't one on the MB for me to confirm, but xivDB and the spreadsheet I have both say 9.
    http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/e7df358ff87/ confirms this (click the HQ icon to toggle back and forth).

    For a WHM, the only reason to go for the Circlet would be to save money for your BLM/SMN.

  5. #5
    They're coming to take me away. Ha Ha!
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    If you go to upgrade Body or Head to AF2 from DL, do you need to have Vanya in order for it to be an actual upgrade, or can you use Strategos?

  6. #6
    The Optimistic Asshole
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    Strategos head + af2 body wins out over darklight

    I'd have to check af2 head + strategos body math, but I'm at work at the moment.

    Also depends on your opinion of spell speed (which AF2 head has). It's a polarizing topic. Splspd vs crit. Straight and consistent remarkbly underwhelming throughput of splspd vs the well-scaled, inconsistent, oft-overcuring design of crit+. Take your pick.

  7. #7
    Hydra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche View Post
    Splspd vs crit. Straight and consistent remarkbly underwhelming throughput of splspd vs the well-scaled, inconsistent, oft-overcuring design of crit+. Take your pick.
    I never understood why this is even debated much when it comes to healers. We're not like dps where spiking our abilities can net out better. If we're talking about optimizing our WHM play, then the risk-averse, consistent output and efficient mp use wins this by default. If you're having to rely on crit heals to keep a tank or other party members alive, something else is wrong.

  8. #8
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    On whm I definitely prefer spellspeed, but on sch, I like crit better.

  9. #9
    Old Odin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aviendha View Post
    I never understood why this is even debated much when it comes to healers. We're not like dps where spiking our abilities can net out better. If we're talking about optimizing our WHM play, then the risk-averse, consistent output and efficient mp use wins this by default. If you're having to rely on crit heals to keep a tank or other party members alive, something else is wrong.
    I might be derping out or something but, assuming MND/Det being equal, how does spell speed make you more mp-efficient? MP ticks only come so often. Going faster just means you run on empty faster. This is part of why stacking skill speed on melee doesn't work out as well since you can already run into TP issues on long fights.

    Granted I pay more attention to SCH so I stack crit regardless, but just curious.

  10. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by Seravi Edalborez View Post
    I might be derping out or something but, assuming MND/Det being equal, how does spell speed make you more mp-efficient? MP ticks only come so often. Going faster just means you run on empty faster. This is part of why stacking skill speed on melee doesn't work out as well since you can already run into TP issues on long fights.

    Granted I pay more attention to SCH so I stack crit regardless, but just curious.
    Spell speed doesn't help with mp efficiency per se, but it does help with the role of WHM on the whole. We're largely a reactionary job, as opposed to SCH which can prevent damage before it happens. We have Stoneskin, but it's more MP efficient to cast Cure and Cure 2 when it's free. Since the mp efficient route provides less wiggle room, spell speed makes it safer for us to heal within the window of damage taken without the use of Stoneskin.

    If it was like XI, where the potency of the cure provided an increasing Stoneskin added effect, it would be different. I believe this is how Scholar works, right? In that case, crit would be more meaningful.

  11. #11

    In regards to SPSD/CRT/DET, I updated the spreadsheet to include gear comparison, and in conjunction with comparing results with another theorycrafter, we noticed that the differences between SPSD/CRT/DET were very small (range 1-8 for base line pre-potency coefficient adjusted, range roughly 1-60 post adjustment).

    So in the end, IMO, it comes down to practicality. Such as whether SPSD lets you move more, or DET/CRT lets you save a GCD (reliably/conveniently respectively).

  12. #12

    Has anyone figured how the refresh from Shroud works?

    The description says 80 potency for 15s, but it's obviously not just 5 ticks of +80 extra mp regeneration.

    I can't think of anything that could be the potency modifier other than healing magic, or it's possible it just scales with level or PIE/MP.

  13. #13

    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    Has anyone figured how the refresh from Shroud works?

    The description says 80 potency for 15s, but it's obviously not just 5 ticks of +80 extra mp regeneration.

    I can't think of anything that could be the potency modifier other than healing magic, or it's possible it just scales with level or PIE/MP.
    It's 1060 mana + your default regen over the duration.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/FFXIVTC/comm...oud_of_saints/

  14. #14
    CoP Dynamis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche View Post
    I'll may try to edit a more extensive progression thread as the discussion continues forward, but I seen there's no WHM thread here, so here it is.

    Anyway, gear question...

    I'm trying to get out of darklight cowl and get into vanya body + some hat. I've seen a lot of WHMs wear rose gold circlet, but I'm not certain why. Here's the HQ stats of each.

    So VIT and MND are the same

    Rose gold has 11 DET and 9 Crit
    Vanya has 11 PIE and 11 Crit

    So now it's down to melds. Vanya will take 11 DET afaik, matching the rose gold, then another 15 SS. If we do 2 QTIII, we'll put it at 12.

    Melding Circlet, you can do PIE7 and Splspd12

    So post meld,
    Vanya will have VIT12, MND12, PIE11, Crit11, DTM11, Splspd12
    Circlet will have VIT12, MND12, PIE7, Crit9, DTM11, Splspd 12

    What am I missing here, why are WHMs getting the circlet over the vanya hat? Is there some better meld combo I'm not seeing (TIV withstanding r/t insane prices)?

    As far as gear progression, once I get these two peices finished, I'll probably go cleric legs before body. Went +1 Thyrus first obv. It seems to work out better that way, especially considering the legs are BIS and the cleric chest vs allagan chest probably goes to allagan unless you're stacking a SS build.
    You can meld crit on the HQ circlet, just saw one on AH so not sure of the cap.

    presumably best meld for HQ circlet would be QT4(slot1), PIE4(slot2), crit(not sure on cap, so tier 2, or 3, or 4, idk)(slot3), QT2(slot4)...not sure for slot 5, haven't seen if dtr is capped on HQ, but you could always put acc on...or maybe something crazy like ele resist or skillspeed(for cooldowns?? or split up the more expensive t4 materia into 2 melds.

  15. #15
    BG's most likeable Québécois
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    What would be your bis for whm then ?

  16. #16
    The Optimistic Asshole
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    You'll probably get a lot of different answers to the BIS question, depending on if you favor splspd or crit.

  17. #17
    They're coming to take me away. Ha Ha!
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    So I finally cleared up my confusion regarding Spell Speed (SS), and I feel stupid for not realizing it sooner. It turns out that your base SS value is 341, at which point you receive 0 benefit. If you look at your character sheet and see 400, for instance, you are really only benefiting from 59 SS, or .05s off of your GCD (it rounds down I believe). The reason I was confused is that I would pop Presence of Mind (PoM) and see that the difference between 400 and 800 SS was fucking enormous! Seeing this, I thought that SS must have accelerating returns, and that the more you stack, the more it's worth per point.... this is not the case. It was simply that 341 SS is actually 0 SS, and PoM was worth a MINIMUM of 341, which is actually significant (.34s off GCD, or a little more than a quarter second off a C1 or C2).

    So you don't need 500 SS for it to be significant, you need PLUS 500, which would you put your Character Sheet total to 841 (well OK, you don't need quite that much to make a difference, but it's still a hard fucking stat to make noticeable)

  18. #18

    Does anyone know why WHM has 146 more MP than SCH despite identical PIE values?

  19. #19
    Old Odin
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    WAR also has slightly more HP than PLD at same VIT so I assume it's just a different base by class/job.

  20. #20
    Sea Torques
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    I'm curious about how other WHMs are prioritizing MND, Determination, and PIE within their setups. Also, is there any definite measure to the effectiveness of Determination and MND yet for a cure formula?

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