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Thread: Dev Tracker: Discussion     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #1061
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    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    Frame rates aren't even on the same tier of comparison, really. And the whole "mystery!" logic can go right the fuck off.
    I don't mind a bit of mistery every now and then, I think I actually like it. But FFXI took it waaaaay to far for waaaay too long.
    Either they start giving cleared info on an average base (which they seem to be willing to do) or they leave the mystery for a bit (weeks? months?) then they make an official post to clear things up about complicated mechanics.
    I don't mind either approach, or even both at the same time.

    But leaving things as they've been for the past 11 years is wrong imho, and the more time goes by the more wrong and anachronistic it seems to me.

  2. #1062
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sechs View Post
    I don't mind a bit of mistery every now and then, I think I actually like it. But FFXI took it waaaaay to far for waaaay too long.
    Either they start giving cleared info on an average base (which they seem to be willing to do) or they leave the mystery for a bit (weeks? months?) then they make an official post to clear things up about complicated mechanics.
    I don't mind either approach, or even both at the same time.

    But leaving things as they've been for the past 11 years is wrong imho, and the more time goes by the more wrong and anachronistic it seems to me.
    What are you talking about? Mystery is amazing for obscure stats and latent effects...

    4 years later
    http://www.ffxiah.com/item/15955/fatality-belt

  3. #1063
    Relic Horn
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    Am I missing something? The latent for that belt was discovered about a year after it was released, not four years.

  4. #1064
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    Where did you get that stupid idea from?

  5. #1065
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    http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103...=1#post4580428

    I mean, it's not completely 100% that it's all one hours instead of just Mighty Strikes, but it's extremely likely, considering all the jobs on the belt, and I'd call that close enough to say we've determined the latent.

  6. #1066
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    Really?

    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Fatality_Belt
    Latent Effect is suspected to be activated with any 2-hour ability.
    Critical Damange enhancement is +2%

    I didnt know "suspected" was a term used for certainty.


    More unknown latents, some from gear older than Jesus.
    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Ace%27s_Locket -6 years old
    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Foolkiller -6 years old
    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Aizenkunitoshi -3 yrs old

    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Mindmeld_Kris
    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Magorokuhocho
    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Savior_Mantle <- may have been figured, but a ffxiah post isnt much to hinge on.

    http://www.ffxiah.com/item/11576/bond-cape - 2 1/2 yrs

    http://www.ffxiah.com/item/11676/flock-ring
    http://www.ffxiah.com/item/11727/flock-earring
    Above 2 are suspected, but with hidden stats, it'll almost never be known with certainty.

    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Tonatiuh_Axe
    ffxiah posts say one thing, bgwiki says another thing, and neither are certain.

  7. #1067

    I didnt know "suspected" was a term used for certainty.
    Why are you being obtuse, you should know that term is standard for anything that's tested through experimentation even after the results point to something really likely.

    More unknown latents, some from gear older than Jesus.
    Only like 3 of those items you listed haven't had their latents figured out (a few are not listed on the wikis because the effects are so shit nobody cares), Mindmeld and Magoroku haven't been tested because people don't give a shit about weapons that arn't 119, but I'll agree Foolkiller was/is fucking dumb. I'm not even sure what the fuck you're trying to say here, though. Even if every single thing in your list applied that's only like 10 items out of how many they've added over the years? You're acting like it's standard practice to add in items that we can't figure out when the majority of them have been. Complaining about it being annoying to test is one thing, I'm not even sure wtf you're trying to prove.

    They obviously changed their policy on hidden effects since aside from damage type (blunt spears/murasamemaru etc) they haven't added any for a long time. Saying "lol it might have a hidden effect" past that applies to every single item in the game. How do I know my Ryunohige 119 doesn't have a hidden effect of wyvern ice resistance +1 gaiz

  8. #1068

    Quote Originally Posted by Sechs View Post
    Imho the "basic" ones. I.e. Attack, Ranged Attack, Magic Attack, Accuracy, Ranged Accuracy, Magic Accuracy, Defense, Evasion, Magic Defense.
    Three lines, three different types of stats (attack, accuracy, defense). Makes a lot of sense to me.
    Thing is, your true MACC would be deceptive without breaking it down further into magic skills and INT/MND/CHR available to you at the time. ACC would be lesser clutter since it could pull main/off, but it'd need skill, ACC, and DEX. This is why I say it can't be half-assed. Otherwise it just looks like a silly algebra problem where we're finding x.

  9. #1069
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    Thing is, your true MACC would be deceptive without breaking it down further into magic skills and INT/MND/CHR available to you at the time. ACC would be lesser clutter since it could pull main/off, but it'd need skill, ACC, and DEX. This is why I say it can't be half-assed. Otherwise it just looks like a silly algebra problem where we're finding x.
    I'm not really sure what you are trying to say anymore. Before were saying how a bunch of stuff wouldn't work now you are saying we have to have all that stuff... seriously though what's wrong with just having a macc stat and then adding in whatever base stat might apply? I mean it's completely unreasonable to have a screen that displays the macc of everything you have. I mean you could technically go another step and have macc of additional effects on weapon displayed and of ws and jas and every spell as well aspossibly seperate macc for the effects of said spells (assuming any of this is actually calculated that way and not varying meva stats for a mob). I mean you can't even really break it down into base stats since those are all compared to mob stats.

    I mean if you are really obssessed with having everything fine put it on an NPC. But for just checking out and about just give us a little bit more basic stuff that will actually be useful in real time vs stat overload which is only really useful in terms of planning out sets and testing and such

  10. #1070
    Relic Horn
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    How much magic accuracy you have depends on how much INT/MND/CHR your enemy has, so just having a pure MACC stat listed in your menu wouldn't make very much sense.

  11. #1071
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    I'd like to think your Magic Accuracy is a static number, but your enemies INT/MND/CHR effect their own Magic Evasion, Similar to how our Accuracy never changes despite an enemies job traits(Eva Bonus) or AGI.

    So I don't think it will be deceptive, no more so than accuracy anyway.

  12. #1072
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    That's not how it works thou. The impact of base stat vs base stat on macc/meva changes based on the difference of that stat between the caster/target.

  13. #1073
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    I think that's what he was getting at. In all reality you could have a pure macc stat and the game could then figure out some meva based on a few things including dstat

  14. #1074
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    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    Thing is, your true MACC would be deceptive without breaking it down further into magic skills and INT/MND/CHR available to you at the time.
    I'm not so sure about that.
    I mean yes, I know what you mean. But the value INT/MND/CHR give is not standard, its influence (let's say how much +macc 1 point of those corresponds to, roughly) varies a lot according to how far you are to the target's IND/MND/CHR. If I'm not wrong the further below you are the greater benefit from adding +1, the further above the more diminished return you get. Well, I guess within certain limits of course.
    Also you could consider the target's magic evasion/elemental resistance and so on.

    I realize this might be a bit different from the situation of not knowing the target's evasion/agi (when it comes to physical attacks) but still, this doesn't mean that they cannot display macc without taking into consideration INT/MND/CHR and this doesn't mean it wouldn't be an useful data to know exactely even without that part.

    I think it's more a problem of Magic being influenced by different magic skills instead. With weapons you can just look the currendly equipped one. With magic you cannot know if the player is going to cast enfeebling, divine, elemental or whatever else. You could extrapolate that and display only generic macc (everything that is not skill and INT/MND/CHR related) but at that point I'm wondering how much useful it would be.
    Well ungh, better than nothing I guess, but probably not worth the effort for them.

    Or they could do like Dasva says and break Macc into several subcategories, one for each magic kind. I mean it's not that impossible. When you accept the idea of having a "rough list" (even in the "Currencies" format) there are no real limits to the amount of data you can display, so yeah, why not just breaking into sub categories?
    Overall Macc+Skill (without INT/MND/CHR) would be useful imho. To be honest these days I'm not even sure INT/MND/CHR are as important as they were back at level 75, or Pre-SoA. I mean most of the pieces we are given have stats vomit, at the end of the day the difference in stats between similar-purpose items shouldn't be that huge of a factor into deciding what to equip. Or at least it's definitely much less of an important factor than it was in the past.

  15. #1075
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    Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the relation between INT/MND/CHR and Macc is as simple as the DEX/Acc or AGI/Racc one.
    For DEX and AGI you have a simple ratio and a direct conversion, period. No relation to the target's AGI/Eva, that's your "chance to hit", which is a different from the acc you get.
    I always thought that INT/MND/CHR stuff was something different? Soemthing that, in the end, produces the result of making you stick your spells more often (or getting them resisted less often) so it has the same effect/result as macc, but it's not the same thing? I don't think there is a direct conversion with a variable ratio according to dstat? It's a different thing and a different formula even if the result is the same.

    Correct me if I'm wrong please.

  16. #1076
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    not to mention you have to factor in specific elemental resistance on a mob by mob case in terms of debuffs and nukes (albeit just change the nuke ele) snd then there are resistance traits for various debuffs depending on mob-job & maybe rarely barspell buffs if they cast any. In any way i would allready be happy with a total macc number not factoring all mobs in just for a basic guideline where my macc is at.

  17. #1077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    How much magic accuracy you have depends on how much INT/MND/CHR your enemy has, so just having a pure MACC stat listed in your menu wouldn't make very much sense.
    How does the mobs stats affect your macc? Does the mobs evasion affect our amount of accuracy? Does the mobs defense affect our attack? Does the mobs MDB change our MAB?

  18. #1078
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    If they do add stats like acc,eva, macc, and meva to the menus then they should allow us to collect enemy information. I think it was mentioned before with SCH and BST getting JAs that reveal enemy stats.
    Maybe revamp Gauge and Libra to give enemy stats as well as what they currently do. Maybe even give RNG a scan ability that does the same.

    That way we will have the information necessary to see how effective/ineffective are characters are to the mobs.

    Also it should be unrestricted no BS like can only use on regular mobs. All mobs all stats!!

  19. #1079
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    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa View Post
    How does the mobs stats affect your macc? Does the mobs evasion affect our amount of accuracy? Does the mobs defense affect our attack? Does the mobs MDB change our MAB?
    According to how Magic Accuracy is defined on BGwiki, how much Magic Accuracy INT/MND/CHR gives you depends on how much INT/MND/CHR your target has. It's not the same as attack, accuracy, and MAB.

    If you have 500 magic skill, 200 magic accuracy in gear, and 200 INT, your INT based Magic Accuracy (that's another wrinkle to add; stat specific Magic Accuracy), your total Magic Accuracy varies between 800 and 900 depending on your foe's INT.

  20. #1080
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    not to mention you have to factor in specific elemental resistance on a mob by mob case in terms of debuffs and nukes (albeit just change the nuke ele) snd then there are resistance traits for various debuffs depending on mob-job & maybe rarely barspell buffs if they cast any. In any way i would allready be happy with a total macc number not factoring all mobs in just for a basic guideline where my macc is at.
    It's not just resist! traits, mobs also have status evasion, which I assume works the same way as bar-status spells. For example, there is lots of stuff that is super evasive to paralyze (but not immune), but not resistant to ice elemental damage.

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