1. FFXIV Reset Timers
    Last daily reset was 9 hours, 40 minutes ago / Next daily reset is in 14 hours, 19 minutes
    Last weekly reset was 5 days, 2 hours, 40 minutes ago / Next weekly reset is in 1 days, 7 hours, 19 minutes
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  1. #7501
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    Reddit is a bad place to store information anyway =/
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  2. #7502
    Chram
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    The thread turnover rate is atrocious. I've seen the same goddamn question asked eleven times in one day, almost verbatim (on the key points) about two months ago. That kind of redundant clutter seems the norm for the site.
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  3. #7503
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    There is a reason why /r/ffxiv manages to be one of the largest blocked gaming subreddits, even with a meagre playbase.

    Shit art spam, a shit community and mods that refuse to do anything to shape the community.
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  4. #7504
    Chram
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    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._talk/dhsdtv7/

    Follow up to the retarded OP crying about "muh doxxing" in that cancerous thread.

    Goddamn annihlated. They doxxed themselves.
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  5. #7505
    CoP Dynamis
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    I felt like "healers refusing to DPS" was just a meme at this point...surely nowadays nobody lacks that much community awareness. A quick trip to the OF disabused me of that notion:

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...d-vote-kicking

    AsahinaMyLove

    I dont care about that changes. lol

    I still WONT dps when I play as HEALER in dungeons groups!

    Why people think healer classes have to do 2 jobs and tank and dps classes only do 1 job..?

    Once DPS's or Tanks has the same healspells healer has, only then I will DPS as healer in groups too! o_o
    It's gotta be a troll, right?
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  6. #7506

    Wait they are changing Cleric's Stance?
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  7. #7507

    Yup Cleric is just a DPS buff now
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  8. #7508

    ...and healers are still too lazy? FFS some people...
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  9. #7509
    Chram
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    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ssion/dhwacj2/

    Spoiler: show
    Quote Originally Posted by younglinkgcn
    if im understanding this right theyre reverting the str/vit change in damage calculation AND making it so that tanks cant equip str accessories. WHYYYY

    EDIT: i guess that explains why the fell cleaves were a bit underwhelming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur
    Because they are trying to put more of the weight for raid dps on the actual dps rather than on the tanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by miunihthrowaway
    Eh, it depends on if tank dps is trash or not. If the difference between a tank played properly and a tank that plays shitty is a negligible boost in raid dps then I'll need to quit tanking, even though I've tanked since 2.0. Why play a role that has no reward for playing well? Just popping cooldowns to stay alive is easy as hell. The only real difficulty in tanking is finding the proper cooldown management to maximise your personal and raid dps. If tank dps becomes an afterthought then just let the shitty players tank while the good ones carry the group in my eyes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur
    I suspect that they are moving the weight from better tanks providing more damage to better tanks providing increased group survival and therefore chance of completing duties. Good tanks will still do decent dps it will just change to descent dps will also helping the party survive.

    The Dark Knight and Paladin have both showcase new abilities that let them protect others and all tanks now have access to Reprisal.
    Quote Originally Posted by miunihthrowaway
    But just doing the basics of tanking (stay alive+hold aggro) is absurdly easy compared to playing a tank that maximizes dps. If tank dps becomes negligible, then why even play a class that doesn't reward you for your work? If I play a tank class to it's limit and a dps can overcome that raid dps increase with ease then why play the class? Look at how busy dark knight is if you want to maximise the class. Not many players can do it. If the overall raid dps increase is negligible for a properly played dark knight in Stormblood then what's the point? All I'm saying is tank dps better not be irrelevant or it will become a joke role where the bad players are put just so they don't hold the group back as much for midcore groups, and hardcore groups will struggle to find tanks that care about their class. Just staying alive and holding aggro is already easy, and it's not like tanks get a lot of mechanics since spinning/moving the boss a lot is heavily discouraged....
    Break here to maintain this failtrain in a readable state (due to quotetrain length).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur
    Step back from the dps obsession.

    Being a great tank should not be based around doing the most dps. Its an easy metric to measure but not necessarily a good one for the tank role.

    Which is the better "tank" the guy doing the most dps or the guy using Reprisal to reduce raid wide damage, shielding the dps/healer targeted by the non-transferable prey, grabbing adds as soon as they spawn and stunning/silencing/pacifying the various interruptible attacks while doing descent dps even if he is losing dps for doing all those other things?

    I'd rather be a tank that does 2500 dps while making the duty easier for the rest of my party than the tank who does 3500 and expects everyone to take care of themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by miunihthrowaway
    But the good tanks do everything you just mentioned while also doing high dps. Just because a tank does high dps doesn't mean the tank shits the bed in terms of everything else. It's not an either-or thing. Great tanks do it all. Look at the world first level tanks for an idea on what a tank is capable of when played correctly. If great tanks have negligible dps in Stormblood then why tank?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur
    Why tank? Because you like tanking. If your primary focus is a dps value relative to that of classes designed to focus only on dealing damage you need to reevaluate why you play the tank role.

    Also I doubt that tanks will be doing negligible dps in Stormblood. They just will not be doing 90% of the damage DpS classes are expected to do. Good and Great tanks will still do good damage relative to less skilled tanks. What will change is they will no longer be doing good great damage relative to DpS classes.

    The weight of whether or not a dps check is passed should not be primarily on the tanks or healers the weight should primarily be on the 4 dps in an 8 man party with the 2 tanks playing a secondary role. A dps check should not have success of failure being determined by whether or not the Dark Knight MT is in Grit.

    P.S. World first tanks tend to focus more on group survival than dps amounts. Dps only really comes into focus if the group is barely failing a dps check. They also have dps and healers that pull their full weight backing them up.
    Quote Originally Posted by miunihthrowaway
    Yes, that's understood. World first tanks obviously keep their group alive, then maximize dps. The difference is their contribution to the overall raid dps isn't negligible, which is what I stated multiple times. You don't seem to get that so I'll use an example.

    If tanks in Heavensward were doing A Realm Reborn numbers in terms of dps do you think you would want your great players on tank, or your shittiest player? You would tell your shittiest player that is just capable of doing the bare minimum of his class to be the tank or you would kick him so he doesn't hold the group back as much. It's pretty simple logic that most groups that are progression minded would go through. That's what I mean by negligible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur
    I'm not against tank dps. Nothing is wrong with maximizing your personal dps. I'm against a meta that can place so much weight on Tank/Healer dps to the point that dps jobs start to slack off and be lazy when Tanks should be focused on maintaining personal and group survivability. This isn't really a problem in the top groups but is far more common as player skills decrease. A great tank should not make up for dps that slack off. A great tank should be able to make up for a good dps that stumbles slightly.

    I find it kinda sad that the meta looks down on a Paladin who uses GB -> RoH -> RA rotation, thinks parry is a useless secondary stat and considers being in tank stance while MTing a bad thing. I'm not a Paladin that thinks RoH needs to be spammed constantly. In fact I facepalm when I see another Paladin reapply the debuff when there is still more than 5s left on it.

    My perspective is that when players are equally skill and everything is equally maximized the dps weight should be split roughly Tank 1 9%, Tank 2 9%, Heal 1 + Healer 2 5% DpS 1 19%, DpS 2 19%, DpS 3 19% and DpS 4 19%.



    Ultimatecalibur reaches the conclusion that bad DPS means you should correspondingly nerf tank DPS to rectify the situation. Because tanks were contributing so much DPS that it meant DPS could "slack off" (breaking news: they're actually just bad!). If you gave any fucks at all as a deeps, you'd actually be making an effort and taking care of yourself (not being a fucking MP sponge, etc.)

    I mean, it's not like anyone who wasn't dogshit at the tank role wasn't already taking the necessary minimum steps to ensure a successful run, within reason (issues under their sphere of influence). It sounds more like this nigga is just mad he couldn't hack it, even in Creator.

    TL;DR: Bad DPS ruin things, so punish tanks regardless.
    -Local moron
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  10. #7510
    Old Merits
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    Well.. If many people sport this shitty mentality then its going to be fun. I never understood why people who does not main a class type cares about what another can do anyway.

    I have never been happy when something got nerfed because it meant a group of people would be disappointed, I was alway happy when something got a boost because it means a group of people would be happy and encouraged to play properly/better.

    One of these guys nailed it, what the point of playing tanks if its just to stand and take punches, or to heal and just throw cures then stand for 10+ secs doing fuckall
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  11. #7511
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    Quote Originally Posted by FHT View Post
    One of these guys nailed it, what the point of playing tanks if its just to stand and take punches, or to heal and just throw cures then stand for 10+ secs doing fuckall
    The people who are terrible at DPS and are tired of being bashed over their poor damage output believe they should be able to switch roles to escape that problem.
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  12. #7512

    They nerfed tank DPS now? My god did Yoshida say screw it and give into everything the OF says?
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  13. #7513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrderio View Post
    They nerfed tank DPS now? My god did Yoshida say screw it and give into everything the OF says?
    He always does. Then when Yoshida actually listens to common sense, the casual base complains until it gets changed since it "ruins their game" and they have to actually apply themselves in order to get rewarded.
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  14. #7514
    Black Belt
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    The stats have always been fucky in this game. They simply haven't found a good way to fix them yet. (And probably won't, because casuals).
    As far as overall job changes they've shown us for SB though, they're almost all positive ones that people around here have been bitching about since forever so... can't blame them for caving to OF in every case.
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  15. #7515
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    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4151670

    Response isn't a fail - I just love the response. The quoted person though, is.
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  16. #7516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrderio View Post
    They nerfed tank DPS now? My god did Yoshida say screw it and give into everything the OF says?
    The nerf is not all that bad assuming that STR goes to a "1" damage modifier rather than the 0.9 combined VIT/STR thing. Once you take into account secondaries it's well below 10%.

    The new issue may be crafted accessories, assuming you'll still be able to penta-meld them, since they would provide the most damage.
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  17. #7517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkimi View Post

    The new issue may be crafted accessories, assuming you'll still be able to penta-meld them, since they would provide the most damage.
    Didn't they mention something about changing melding too?
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  18. #7518
    Chram
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrderio View Post
    They nerfed tank DPS now? My god did Yoshida say screw it and give into everything the OF says?
    This is a fairly decent and reasonable thread:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...damage_change/

    Kaella and rafaelfy's comments are particularly worth reading, as they largely touch on the concerns (also the probable demise of the tank DPS meta).

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._dps_the_meta/
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...the_tank_meta/

    These threads are also worth briefly perusing to understand why the aggressive tank meta was a thing, and why a lot of the upper echelon of tanks (even PLDs, as handicapped as they were for a time) loved it. I'll certainly be pretty fucking bummed out if it's gone. I really enjoyed this aggressive playstyle. qq
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  19. #7519
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    I don't think the DPS meta is going to die unless the metric for tank success becomes about mitigating damage with healers barely able to keep up with healing.

    The accessory change is likely more to do with players cheesing ilv requirements, people being dumb, and certain substats not becoming absolute garbage.

    A nerf sure, but this isn't the end of tank pushing dps.

    Edit: In all honestly though FFXIV allowing Healers and Tanks to make a significant contribution to DPS is something that makes the game unique in the wasteland of MMOs and is something that should be heralded and never shoved into some dusty corner.
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  20. #7520
    Chram
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    "End" might be a bit strong of a term, for sure. Though with our Role Actions being entirely defensive and our offensive abilities being severely curtailed by the stance swap penalties on top of the accessories restriction (via the return to 1.00 STR), not sure how else to categorize it since the tank share of the DPS contribution pie is assuredly shrinking.



    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...nshots_player/

    Maybe the fail here is the mods over there thought this was a bigger issue than the cancer of shitty fanart asspats.

    Quote Originally Posted by The-very-definition
    Wow, with the amount of garbage posts like, "look at my character commission art, what xyz do you want in game, what xyz do you hate, this game is the best ty fam, how do I google a basic question about leveling, etc." that we have in this sub I wasn't aware it was being moderated at all.

    I say let them stay or clean up all the garbage.
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