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  1. #81
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    Did some 30/35/37 gathering gear today. The only III that came about was from the lv35 piece, the rest (43 of them) were just tier II. Not 100% saying nexxus is wrong, but if there is a chance for something like a lv37 to convert to a tier IV... then its hella low.

    For now I'm in the poidh group as well.

  2. #82
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    Vamos los Perds!

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    Just received two more TIVs; lowest iLVL gear producing one was 45. That's the lowest definitive threshold for which I have proof currently.

  3. #83
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    For battle gear spiritbonding, do you get as much elemental materia as you did before? 1 in 11 (with 2 being Int/Strength) seems a lot better than before.

  4. #84
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    Ok so I am crunching the numbers here, and can't figure this out.

    Killing the same level 49 mobs over and over, keeping track of my spiritbond % every single kill, and it's working to SE's classic n/256 programming

    5% x3
    6% x3
    7% x2
    8% x3
    9% x3
    10% x2
    11% x3
    12% x3
    13% x2
    14% x3
    15 x3
    16 x3
    17 x3
    18 x2
    19 x3
    Nevermind, its not fitting, I'm really having trouble finding a n/256 number that fits this pattern @[email protected]

  5. #85
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    Way way back in 1.0, they were a lot clearer about numbers. Before they streamlined the interface, things like gear durability was just represented in giant ol' numbers. We're talking things like 50,000 durability for fresh lv50 gear (if my memory serves; I can't find many screenshots of old old gear windows).

    Unless they've changed things since then (entirely possible), spiritbond values probably work pretty similarly. I would expect an iLv50 piece of gear to have several tens of thousands of capacity for spiritbond, and each monster kill to give several hundred.

    Whoever figured out how the nexus light values were stored with an item could probably figure this out pretty easily by scanning RAM.

    All that said, I'm not sure how it could go from a 3,3,2 pattern to all of a sudden getting a case where it went 3,3,3,3,2

    **The whole point of my post was to say that it probably has nothing to do with 256 (in my mind, the x/256 thing is generally only reserved for damage modifications (resists, buffs, etc.), but I could be wrong).

  6. #86
    Nidhogg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    45 is the minimum. 35~44 gear will give you T2s with the rare chance at a T3. T4 rate on 45~55 gear seemed to be around 5%~10%, and with what little bonding I've done since patch, that probably hasn't changed (1/11 so far; note that this was all DoL gear, so who knows if they separated the T4 rate of DoW/M gear).
    ilvl 30 can give you tier 3, gotten it a few times from the pink gear in haukke manor.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    Way way back in 1.0, they were a lot clearer about numbers. Before they streamlined the interface, things like gear durability was just represented in giant ol' numbers. We're talking things like 50,000 durability for fresh lv50 gear (if my memory serves; I can't find many screenshots of old old gear windows).

    Unless they've changed things since then (entirely possible), spiritbond values probably work pretty similarly. I would expect an iLv50 piece of gear to have several tens of thousands of capacity for spiritbond, and each monster kill to give several hundred.

    Whoever figured out how the nexus light values were stored with an item could probably figure this out pretty easily by scanning RAM.

    All that said, I'm not sure how it could go from a 3,3,2 pattern to all of a sudden getting a case where it went 3,3,3,3,2

    **The whole point of my post was to say that it probably has nothing to do with 256 (in my mind, the x/256 thing is generally only reserved for damage modifications (resists, buffs, etc.), but I could be wrong).
    Id be willing to bet it might be an exp system, might use the exact same algorithm for exp. Something like getExp(yourlevel, monsterlevel)

    And they just used ilvl of item -> monster level to calculate the resulting return.

    Which could also imply the difference in level does not necessitate how much % spiritbond you get.

    Much like how a mob 1 level above you at level 1 will give you like 10% of a level, whereas a mob 1 level above you at 49 will give you like 0.2% of a level.

    Which means it will be pretty hard to actually get us some hard defined numbers on just z many mobs you need to kill with ilvl x and mob level y

  8. #88

    If someone mined the raw SB progression numbers we could easily figure out how it works.

    Get an ilvl 45 piece of gear, kill a lvl 40 mob, see how much you gain, 41 mob, 42......50.

    Actually, we could potentially reverse-engineer mob levels greater than 50 by looking at the SB values they give.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    If someone mined the raw SB progression numbers we could easily figure out how it works.

    Get an ilvl 45 piece of gear, kill a lvl 40 mob, see how much you gain, 41 mob, 42......50.

    Actually, we could potentially reverse-engineer mob levels greater than 50 by looking at the SB values they give.
    Awkward part is these numbers are getting really really really rounded down, so it will take a lot of data to calculate it :X

    Also, it seems that the slot the piece of gear is also influences how much it takes. Ive noticed my body pieces are lagging marginally behind my hands and heads.

  10. #90
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    If you don't wear anything in some slots, does the rest of your equipment spiritbond faster? Totally something that needs to be tested.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by urat View Post
    Also, it seems that the slot the piece of gear is also influences how much it takes. Ive noticed my body pieces are lagging marginally behind my hands and heads.
    Everything I've ever done says this is false; what are you bonding? Every piece of my full left-side set of i90 gear always completes spiritbond within one monster of each other.

  12. #92

    Gear slot has no effect on SB rate from what I've seen as well.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    Everything I've ever done says this is false; what are you bonding? Every piece of my full left-side set of i90 gear always completes spiritbond within one monster of each other.
    I have my earrings, choker and one ring to spiritbind because of SB+ accessories. The ring and earrings were lagging behind the choker, which finished first by about 10-15 mobs in Urth's.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dathus View Post
    I have my earrings, choker and one ring to spiritbind because of SB+ accessories. The ring and earrings were lagging behind the choker, which finished first by about 10-15 mobs in Urth's.
    Was it level 4X stuff? The bracelets and chokers are 1 level lower.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andradi View Post
    Was it level 4X stuff? The bracelets and chokers are 1 level lower.
    It was. That'll teach me to pay attention.

  16. #96
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    How much do those +SB accs help? I thought they were mostly worthless since you could just SB another thing instead?

  17. #97
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    I haven't seen any rigorous testing on it. I wanted to do it a while back, but I stopped caring much before I got around to it. The +spiritbond numbers are so small, it's hard to get very good data what with the rounding errors and all that.

    I've always operated on the assumption that they were +1% per point, but I've been told that's wrong (as usual, with no data backing up said claims, but I don't have any either). Another person posed that it might be +X "points" added to each kill. Pulling completely fabricated numbers out of my ass, but if a piece of gear required 10,000 "points" to spiritbond, and each kill gave 60, then that theory would state that +1 spiritbond would push it up to 61 "points" per kill. In this completely-made-up case, that single point of +spiritbond would bump the kills required from 167 to 164.

    I can give some instructions to someone if they're bored enough to feed me requested data and I MIGHT be able to figure it out the same way I determined how potent the HQ/materia bonuses are (previously believed to be anywhere from +10~20% bonus, data showed it to actually be +25%).

    Instructions, if you're seriously interested:
    Spoiler: show
    I'd need someone to spiritbond 3 pieces of gear with identical iLevel (easiest is probably i55 gear bonded while killing open-world shit) while wearing as much +spiritbond as possible. Assuming you had all +spiritbond slots occupied with +spiritbond gear, I would suggest bonding i55 hands, i55 legs, and i55 feet. Make sure that the i55 hands are unmelded and NQ, the i55 legs are HQ and single-melded, and the i55 feet are HQ and triple-melded. The only data points I need are
    1) The assurance that these pieces of gear were all bonded simultaneously, with no variations in party size or amount of +spiritbond.
    2) The amount of +spiritbond used (the more, the better)
    3) The amount of bond% on each piece of gear when the feet (or whatever piece is HQ-triple-melded) reach exactly 100% bond

    From there, I should be able to figure out the potency of the +spiritbond stat.

    "How could that possibly be enough data to reach a conclusion?"
    I know that an HQ-triple-melded piece of gear bonds at exactly twice the speed of something that is NQ-unmleded, and that an HQ-single-melded piece of gear bonds at 150% the speed of something that is NQ-unmelded (because each HQ/materia is worth +25% bond rate). Using this data provided, it could show slight differences in these percentages that would reveal how potent a point of +spiritbond is.

    With +0 spiritbond, once the HQ-triple-melded piece reaches 100% bond rate, you should see...
    HQ-triple-melded: 100% bond (bond rate of 200%)
    HQ-single-melded: ~75%* bond (bond rate of 150%) [(100/200) * 1.50 = .75]
    NQ-unmelded: ~50%* bond (bond rate of 100%) [(100/200) * 1.00 = .50]

    If +14 spiritbond is as simple as +14% spiritbond, then you might see...
    HQ-triple-melded: 100% bond (bond rate of 214%)
    HQ-single-melded: ~76%* bond (bond rate of 164%) [(100/214) * 1.64 = .766355...]
    NQ-unmelded: ~53%* bond (bond rate of 114%) [(100/214) * 1.14 = .532710...]

    However, if the +spiritbond is taken into the equation AFTER all the HQ/materia bonuses have modified the bond rate, then your numbers would look exactly like example 1 (100/75/50 bond rates), and we would need to proceed to the cringe-inducing alternate method (see below).

    *Give-or-take 1% due to potential rounding errors. Hopefully rounding errors don't bump that % up any more than 1, but I don't actually know.

    Note: If you can't muster at least +10 spiritbond, don't bother trying. These numbers are so close to one another that it's difficult to account for rounding error if the +spiritbond number isn't as large as possible.


    Alternate method, for those with a lot of patience:
    Follow the above instructions, but instead, keep track of exactly how many monsters is takes to make each piece reach 100%, with some additional rules.
    • Count EXACTLY how many monsters it takes for each piece to reach 100%.
    • Make sure that you only ever kill one type of monster (I suggest the hippogryphs in mor dhona).
    • DO NOT do this in a party, since I don't know exactly how the party size effects spiritbond (this includes your chocobo).
    • DO NOT kill monsters that link (I don't know if this affects spiritbond or not).
    You're not done yet:
    • Now do the exact same test with the exact same conditions, but with +0 spiritbond, and compare the amount of kills it took to reach 100% on everything.
    I tried to do this once, but I kept losing count because it was boring. For sanity's sake, I do not suggest it.


    What's the most +spiritbond we can get now anyway?
    Head: +1 (Gambler's Crown; 5-melding any item achievement, easily achieved with a cowl)
    Neck: +1 (Patriot's Choker; bought with a pittance of GC seals)
    Ears: +1 (Achievement reward for doing 500 supply missions [DoH turn-ins])
    Wrists: +2 (Achievement reward for doing 500 GC leves from your GC; unlikely to be held by most. There's a +1 wrist you can buy with seals)
    Ring1: +3 (Meteor Survivor Ring, quest reward)
    Ring2: +3 (In case you're unaware, you can buy a 2nd meteor survivor ring from the calamity salvager)
    Potion: +3 (1500 GC seals for ONE potion? You've got to be kidding me.)
    Food: idk?
    ------------
    +14 max

  18. #98
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    I have a fairly serious medical question to ask, if I dont ask it, please ban me.

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    I haven't played in a long time now, but from when I was I did SB a lot.

    It comes down to the market on your server vs. your free time vs. your need for materia. Every +SB slot you equip is one less piece of materia you're getting per round. Whether that be a loss in money / chance at TIV you need / whatever, it's a factor. But if you only have 30 minutes every day to SB and it takes you ~35 minutes to SB a full set, it's obviously worth losing a piece or two to increase rate so you finish in time.

    In reality, you don't have an unlimited amount of readily available gear to turn into materia, nor do you have an unlimited amount of time. My philosophy was always "make 3 full sets, go SB it, be done". In that case it's most efficient to not use any +SB gear and make sure you bang out full sets in waves and just finish. If you have a time limit and want to SB as much as you can in that time, whatever, experiment. My intuition is that it's a wash though.

  19. #99
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    Something I have noticed after a fair bit of spiritbonding on my goldsmith.

    Was making HQ aetheryte rings (ilvl 55 I think?) and SBing em after putting a couple materia in them.

    At first I wasnt using materia, until I read that any materia worked regardless of tier.

    So I started sticking cheap tier 1 elemental materia in my aetheryte rings, electrum earrings, and wristlists of crafting. And sure enough at 3 materia each I was getting +60% SB rate, cool... except.

    After converting easily 30+ of these, I had gotten 1 of the 3 crafting materia every time, until I started adding materia to them.

    Once I started materia enhancing them, I started getting different materias after converting.. .specifically... the materia I had put into the item, except tier 3 and tier 4 versions.

    As an experiment, I put strictly earth I materias in the slots for another 5 runs, or, 15 items total. OF those I think it was 4 or 5 of them that gave me... Earth III materias. The other 10 or 11 of them were normal crafting materia.

    In other words, The materia you put in the item influences what materia it converts too. I gave a quick browse through here and didn't see anything about this.

    My next goal will be to see if this was pure luck or if its constant. I'm going to start sticking craftsman's command I materias in the slots of the accessories now, and see what my ratio of command/GP/competence is after 50 or so iterations. Wish me luck.

  20. #100

    Aetheryte rings aren't considered crafting gear when it comes to materia conversion.

    If you're saying you got elemental materia from other crafting pieces, poidh.

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