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  1. #121
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    g
    Quote Originally Posted by fussel View Post
    If it's easily stolen, steal these 0.1 BTC from me, I won't even be angry. Free $60!

    1L8epAqHfsUYDb1hAN9qgWQzVLoWD29ELW
    That's not how the thefts happen, and you know it. Stop playing stupid.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    g
    That's not how the thefts happen, and you know it. Stop playing stupid.
    So... how do the thefts happen? The place where _you_ stored your BTCs had insufficient security and got hacked. That's kinda like leaving cash in your car. Stupid.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by fussel View Post
    So... how do the thefts happen? The place where _you_ stored your BTCs had insufficient security and got hacked. That's kinda like leaving cash in your car. Stupid.
    I think the more appropriate analogy would be storing money in a bank that left the vault open and unguarded 24/7. The bank sucks for being incompetent, but it's not exactly a reflection of the currency.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by fussel View Post
    So... how do the thefts happen? The place where _you_ stored your BTCs had insufficient security and got hacked. That's kinda like leaving cash in your car. Stupid.
    For pretending to know so much on the topic, I find the sudden ignorance astounding. You aren't helping your case.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    For pretending to know so much on the topic, I find the sudden ignorance astounding. You aren't helping your case.
    Ad-hominem is neither.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blubbartron View Post
    I think the more appropriate analogy would be storing money in a bank that left the vault open and unguarded 24/7. The bank sucks for being incompetent, but it's not exactly a reflection of the currency.
    Exactly that.

  6. #126
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    If a real bank gets robbed you still have your money though. Who is going to offer the same or similar security to protect your bitcoins even if there are more investors or it becomes more mainstream?

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azull View Post
    If a real bank gets robbed you still have your money though. Who is going to offer the same or similar security to protect your bitcoins even if there are more investors or it becomes more mainstream?
    FDIC types of insurance aside, people keep making analogies about 'robbing a bank' when the better example for Bitcoins is that the bank has a pretty high chance of simply robbing you. That's an issue well beyond the game fussel keeps playing about insisting as long as you keep your wallet file safe that you are secure. How does my wallet file prevent exchanges and other 3rd parties from stealing or having issues and taking all the coins with them? Should my coins never leave my wallet? What good are they then?

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azull View Post
    If a real bank gets robbed you still have your money though.
    You don't have your money when it's at your bank. You have the promise of the bank to get an amount of money from the bank according to your account balance when you withdraw. This promise might even be insured by laws and contracts.

    Actually, even the bank might not have your money in a fractional reserve system.

    Who is going to offer the same or similar security to protect your bitcoins even if there are more investors or it becomes more mainstream?
    Nobody is offering that yet. But I'm not entirely sure if this applies here. Keeping your bitcoins safe is a matter of keeping a private key safe and secret, which has other requirements (encryption, backup) than keeping physical bank notes safe.

  9. #129
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    So am I totally off base is my understanding that it is, at its source, an unsecured bond?

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azull View Post
    So am I totally off base is my understanding that it is, at its source, an unsecured bond?
    Yep. Without all the bond underwriting and indenture.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    How does my wallet file prevent exchanges and other 3rd parties from stealing or having issues and taking all the coins with them? Should my coins never leave my wallet? What good are they then?
    There's no problem having more than one wallet. Look, with fiat money, I have a savings account, a checking account, a debit card (with an artifical limit, so nobody can use it to clear out my checking account at once) and cash.

    With BTC I have an offline paper wallet (sitting at home, private key was never exposed to an online PC), a MultiBit wallet on my PC (which I consider mostly secure) and another one on my mobile phone (which I might lose, same as cash). I also have an account at an exchange which has a balance of zero, unless I'm buying BTC.

  12. #132
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    Thus boils down to BTC being unnecessary in the minds of most people. Why do I need to use it? As an investment it's nightmarishly volatile and as a storage system it's needlessly complicated and still too volatile. If I really want to protect my money against USD shifts then I'd convert to other fiat currencies, US treasuries or the bond market.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zetanio View Post
    Thus boils down to BTC being unnecessary in the minds of most people. Why do I need to use it? As an investment it's nightmarishly volatile and as a storage system it's needlessly complicated and still too volatile. If I really want to protect my money against USD shifts then I'd convert to other fiat currencies, US treasuries or the bond market.
    You don't need to use it. I don't need either. I'm just throwing some money at it that I can afford to lose.

    Now that the finance pros are around, I'd be grateful for any investment tips for real money that have a ROI of >1%/year (overnight funds...), though.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by fussel View Post
    You don't need to use it. I don't need either. I'm just throwing some money at it that I can afford to lose.

    Now that the finance pros are around, I'd be grateful for any investment tips for real money that have a ROI of >1%/year (overnight funds...), though.
    Start a Roth IRA. Depending on how much risk you can stomach you can tune where your money is invested and at what %. I use Fidelity to manage mine and I have no complaints. Fees are very low, return is ~5-7% for me.

    EDIT: If you are looking to day trade or self-manage a portfolio I'd do a LOT of research beforehand. I don't find it worth it for me.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    It is an interesting concept, but at the moment is nothing more than a plaything of the technologically inclined, those with too much money, and idiots. Sometimes more than one at a time.
    Quote Originally Posted by fussel View Post
    You don't need to use it. I don't need either. I'm just throwing some money at it that I can afford to lose.
    ..........and we have come full circle.

  16. #136
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    thanks for killer explanation on how banks work, i wasn't paying attention in 5th grade

  17. #137
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    lol, you guys know you can use a real bank to store your bitcoins, right? Using some online bitcoin wallet as if it were a bank is about as stupid as using paypal as if it were a bank. If you have enough bitcoins to be worth seriously worrying about, put them in a safety deposit box.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    ..........and we have come full circle.
    Heh, if you re-read my posts, I never argued against what you said in that post in the first place.

    My point was that fiat money and our banking system also have their issues, and that MtGox and other exchanges being hacked doesn't infer that bitcoins are easy to steal if handled properly.

    http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azull View Post
    If a real bank gets robbed you still have your money though. Who is going to offer the same or similar security to protect your bitcoins even if there are more investors or it becomes more mainstream?
    Bad style to do a double post, but well. xapo.com does.

  20. #140
    FOR FUCKS' SAKE !!!
    FOR FUCKS' SAKE !!!
    FUCK FUCK FUCK

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    The publication I work for started accepting bitcoins.

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/21401...-bitcoins.html

    This is going to be an interesting week.

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