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  1. #41
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    How would you guys spend your myth? The only way I'm hitting acc cap on Twin is to switch to the i80 Crimson vest (+21 acc) and remelding my earring to have +12 ac. Ideally I'd like to not have to sub in lower gear to meet the requirements.

    http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/y...ps37cb788c.png


    Ideally I would like allagan Caster head/legs/ear to drop, but I havent seen them since starting coil.

    Assuming coil continues to be stingy...
    I'm guessing Tremor Earring + Af2 gloves 425 + 8 food = 433
    or
    Continue with Crimson body but upgrade to Af2 hat and remeld earring (+12 instead of +6). 427 + 8 food = 435 cap
    or
    Af2 body + Myth ear? 428 + 8 food = 436 1 above cap.

    And don't ask about the piety on the earring.... I still don't what I was thinking when I did that. I'm going to do it properly tonight.

  2. #42
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    Tremor Earring & Inferno Bangles if you want to avoid spending myth.

  3. #43
    CoP Dynamis
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephir View Post
    How would you guys spend your myth? The only way I'm hitting acc cap on Twin is to switch to the i80 Crimson vest (+21 acc) and remelding my earring to have +12 ac. Ideally I'd like to not have to sub in lower gear to meet the requirements.

    http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/y...ps37cb788c.png


    Ideally I would like allagan Caster head/legs/ear to drop, but I havent seen them since starting coil.

    Assuming coil continues to be stingy...
    I'm guessing Tremor Earring + Af2 gloves 425 + 8 food = 433
    or
    Continue with Crimson body but upgrade to Af2 hat and remeld earring (+12 instead of +6). 427 + 8 food = 435 cap
    or
    Af2 body + Myth ear? 428 + 8 food = 436 1 above cap.

    And don't ask about the piety on the earring.... I still don't what I was thinking when I did that. I'm going to do it properly tonight.
    Af2 body alone with the current earring puts you over cap, and if you have the myth for it, is likely your fastest upgrade to meet cap, and probably the best choice since you are in a good Twin group, you can expect to eventually get a BLM allagan sceptor (and primal shield) and then switch back to allagan casting tunic. This will also give you some adjustability when the new coil turns come and acc cap is (hopefully) raised, when you might need all the acc from sorc. coat AND allagan sceptor/primal shield to destroy that content.

  4. #44
    CoP Dynamis
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    putting this out there to find a consensus:

    1. What food does everyone use? I usually use NQ buttons in a blanket because someone throws me the NQ scraps for free when he's making hq's.

    2.can anyone that is logged on (or that knows the answer) tell me base acc for lvl50 blm (no gear on, or at least no +acc gear on). so I can start to hem together a BiS addition to the guide. thanks. (on the same thought, the acc cap for blm for turn5? what I found from someone that said they parsed themselves was 428)

  5. #45

    http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/

    Base acc/crit/skill&spell speed are 341 for all jobs at 50 (DET is 202).

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/

    Base acc/crit/skill&spell speed are 341 for all jobs at 50 (DET is 202).
    Thanks

  7. #47
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    so to get around 428 acc with max dmg stats:

    Allagan Sceptor+primal shield (duh)
    Head: Allagan (for the acc rather than putting on more +acc accessories, and since the allagan head has a lot of DTR on it)
    body: Allagan
    hands: Allagan
    waist: Allagan:
    legs: Sorcerer's
    feet: either Allagan or Sorcerer's (same stats...which is dumb)
    neck: Hero's (Allagan can pull ahead if you NEED the extra SS to reduce casting time enough to better match the end of thunder2 cast (or other gcd) with the time when you will have full MP from UI3)
    Ear: Allagan and Hero's are about even here. (last I saw DTR was more heavily weighted than crit, but since the exact magic dmg formula is still being worked out this one is a toss up.)
    Wrist: Hero's
    Ring's: Hero's and Garuda (allagan is a decent replacement for garuda, but you lose acc, DTR, and only gain SS, which if you have full i90, are probably getting diminishing returns on SS anyway)

    This set puts you at 426 acc, so you can use HQ Buttons in a Blanket for food and 443 CRIT and 281 DTR, obviously with the maximum weapon dmg and INT possible (which INT is equal whether you use myth gear or coil gear)

    granted...good luck on coil drops, especially on blm sceptor lol

    Thoughts?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taim Meich View Post
    1. Fire III > Swiftcast Flare > Transpose > (Fire III as soon as the first MP tick occurs > Flare > Transpose)*n
    2. Fire III > Swiftcast Flare > Transpose > (Fire III as soon as the first MP tick occurs > Fire II > Flare > Transpose)*n
    Unless you're using AOE on only 2 targets, more Fire II is always an increase in DPS, albeit small. It's always best to put as many Fire II as you can on three or more targets. Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Flare does more damage than any rotation, but the downtime required to do it again makes it only useful as an opener. After which, you'll either want to do Fire III > Fire II > Flare or Flare > Fire II > Flare depending on the number of targets. Even leaving out the Fire II in the second rotation, Flare > Flare is still better than the Fire III rotation on 4 or more targets. See the my video Sylvrdragon linked on how to do the Flare rotations.

    Leaving out Swiftcast because you may not always have it up for that first Flare, but it should always be used on one of the AF3 Flares when available.

    3 Targets:
    Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Flare > (Transpose > Fire III > Fire II > Flare)*n
    4+ Targets:
    Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Flare > (Transpose > Flare > Fire II > Flare)*n

    Starting out with Fire III > Flare seems like a good idea, but adding in the Fire IIs results in more damage dealt. In terms of potency per second, Fire III > Flare is actually higher than Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Flare, BUT it only last for half the time. Both are higher PPS than the rotation that follows, so you'll want to do that lasts longer as the result is overall more damage dealt. Each Fire II before the Flare results in 4.5 more potency dealt to each target.

  9. #49
    I trusted Zet and this is what happened
    Eleven owes me $40 bucks

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    Just for the purposes of quick checking as I'm leveling, would it be possible to edit the OP to reflect the levels of various abilities?

  10. #50
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    When you look in your actions and traits stuff it tells you what level you obtain the ability/trait

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinryu View Post
    Unless you're using AOE on only 2 targets, more Fire II is always an increase in DPS, albeit small. It's always best to put as many Fire II as you can on three or more targets. Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Flare does more damage than any rotation, but the downtime required to do it again makes it only useful as an opener. After which, you'll either want to do Fire III > Fire II > Flare or Flare > Fire II > Flare depending on the number of targets. Even leaving out the Fire II in the second rotation, Flare > Flare is still better than the Fire III rotation on 4 or more targets. See the my video Sylvrdragon linked on how to do the Flare rotations.

    Leaving out Swiftcast because you may not always have it up for that first Flare, but it should always be used on one of the AF3 Flares when available.

    3 Targets:
    Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Flare > (Transpose > Fire III > Fire II > Flare)*n
    4+ Targets:
    Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Flare > (Transpose > Flare > Fire II > Flare)*n

    Starting out with Fire III > Flare seems like a good idea, but adding in the Fire IIs results in more damage dealt. In terms of potency per second, Fire III > Flare is actually higher than Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Flare, BUT it only last for half the time. Both are higher PPS than the rotation that follows, so you'll want to do that lasts longer as the result is overall more damage dealt. Each Fire II before the Flare results in 4.5 more potency dealt to each target.
    It took me some time to understand what you said, but now that I got it, I see you're absolutely correct, of course. Fire II is 300 potency on 3+ enemies, so the least Fire III's you stick in there (with a potency of 110 on one target), the better. I have to practice the Flare->Flare rotation, since it looks extremely useful, but the possibility of messing up and ending in AFIII with 0 MP and no transpose up scares me a bit. Once I'm confident enough on my execution of this, I'll definitely put it into practice.

  12. #52
    I trusted Zet and this is what happened
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWS_Tonx View Post
    When you look in your actions and traits stuff it tells you what level you obtain the ability/trait
    Yeah, but when I would be looking at this guide I would most likely not be playing the game. This lets me look and plan without being on the game.

  13. #53
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    I thought the flare -> flare rotation no longer works because they made it so that you lose the UI MP tick when flare/fire3 start to animate.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukari View Post
    I thought the flare -> flare rotation no longer works because they made it so that you lose the UI MP tick when flare/fire3 start to animate.
    See:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvrdragon View Post
    New Double Flare rotations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82L9IbUPMxU

    Not my video.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taim Meich View Post
    It took me some time to understand what you said, but now that I got it, I see you're absolutely correct, of course.
    Yeah, sorry, I'm not exactly good at explaining things. >_> Would probably be better if I supported my statements with some math.

    AF1 = +40% potency on Fire, -10% on Ice
    AF2 = +60% potency on Fire, -20% on Ice
    AF3 = +80% potency on Fire, -30% on Ice
    UI1 = -10% potency on Fire
    UI2 = -20% potency on Fire
    UI3 = -30% potency on Fire
    N = Number of targets
    PPS = Potency per second

    These openers are impacted by spell speed, but for the sake of ease, we'll use the original cast times. The first has a higher potency per second, but due to the shorter duration, it ends up being less potency dealt before moving on to a rotation. Each Fire II added results in 4.5N more potency dealt. Since both are stronger than any of the rotations, you want to go with the one which deals that higher PPS longest. Even considering Swiftcast on the Flare, the longer opener will still result in more damage.

    Fire III > Flare
    220 + 468N
    3.5 + 4 = 7.5s
    (220 + 468N)/7.5 = 29.3 + 62.4N PPS
    With Swiftcast on Flare (4.5s): 48.8 + 104N PPS

    Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Flare
    220 + 180N + 180N + 180N + 468N = 220 + 1008N
    3.5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 4 = 16.5s
    (220 + 1008N)/16.5 = 13.3 + 61.1N PPS
    With Swiftcast on Flare (13.5s): 16.3 + 74.6N PPS


    These rotations will always take an exact multiple of 3 seconds to perform due to reliance on MP ticks. As such, spell speed has no impact on the PPS.

    Transpose > Blizzard II > Blizzard II > Fire III > Flare
    50N + 50N + 154 + 468N = 154 + 568N
    12s
    (154 + 568N)/12 = 12.8 + 47.3N PPS

    Transpose > Fire III > Fire II > Flare
    198 + 180N + 468N = 198 + 648N
    12s
    (198 + 648N)/12 = 16.5 + 54N PPS

    Transpose > Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Flare
    198 + 180N + 180N + 468N = 198 + 828N
    15s
    (198 + 828N)/15 = 13.2 + 55.2N PPS

    Transpose > Flare > Flare
    234N + 468N = 702N
    12s
    702N/12 = 58.5N PPS

    Transpose > Flare > Fire II > Flare
    234N + 180N + 468N = 882N
    15s
    882N/15 = 58.8N PPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Taim Meich View Post
    I have to practice the Flare->Flare rotation, since it looks extremely useful, but the possibility of messing up and ending in AFIII with 0 MP and no transpose up scares me a bit. Once I'm confident enough on my execution of this, I'll definitely put it into practice.
    You have about a half second window to time it correctly, so it's not too bad once you've done it a few times. You can tell before the spell is finished if you messed it up, though. If you time it correctly, you'll get an MP tick about 0.5-1.0s after you start casting. If it comes sooner/later, I would back out of the cast and switch to a Fire III to reduce your potential downtime; if you try to do the Flare again, you may end up losing your UI1 midcast and end up with 75 MP, which may as well be 0.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinryu View Post
    You have about a half second window to time it correctly, so it's not too bad once you've done it a few times. You can tell before the spell is finished if you messed it up, though. If you time it correctly, you'll get an MP tick about 0.5-1.0s after you start casting. If it comes sooner/later, I would back out of the cast and switch to a Fire III to reduce your potential downtime; if you try to do the Flare again, you may end up losing your UI1 midcast and end up with 75 MP, which may as well be 0.
    Tried this today, and it's not as difficult as I thought, just as you said. In fact, I used it in Coil T4 with really good effect, even with my still very in progress gear. Flare -> Fire II*3 -> Flare -> Transpose -> double flare rotation, and I ended up with 360 dps in the first wave. So nice!

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinryu View Post
    Yeah, sorry, I'm not exactly good at explaining things. >_> Would probably be better if I supported my statements with some math.

    AF1 = +40% potency on Fire, -10% on Ice
    AF2 = +60% potency on Fire, -20% on Ice
    AF3 = +80% potency on Fire, -30% on Ice
    UI1 = -10% potency on Fire
    UI2 = -20% potency on Fire
    UI3 = -30% potency on Fire
    N = Number of targets
    PPS = Potency per second

    These openers are impacted by spell speed, but for the sake of ease, we'll use the original cast times. The first has a higher potency per second, but due to the shorter duration, it ends up being less potency dealt before moving on to a rotation. Each Fire II added results in 4.5N more potency dealt. Since both are stronger than any of the rotations, you want to go with the one which deals that higher PPS longest. Even considering Swiftcast on the Flare, the longer opener will still result in more damage.

    Fire III > Flare
    220 + 468N
    3.5 + 4 = 7.5s
    (220 + 468N)/7.5 = 29.3 + 62.4N PPS
    With Swiftcast on Flare (4.5s): 48.8 + 104N PPS

    Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Flare
    220 + 180N + 180N + 180N + 468N = 220 + 1008N
    3.5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 4 = 16.5s
    (220 + 1008N)/16.5 = 13.3 + 61.1N PPS
    With Swiftcast on Flare (13.5s): 16.3 + 74.6N PPS


    These rotations will always take an exact multiple of 3 seconds to perform due to reliance on MP ticks. As such, spell speed has no impact on the PPS.

    Transpose > Blizzard II > Blizzard II > Fire III > Flare
    50N + 50N + 154 + 468N = 154 + 568N
    12s
    (154 + 568N)/12 = 12.8 + 47.3N PPS

    Transpose > Fire III > Fire II > Flare
    198 + 180N + 468N = 198 + 648N
    12s
    (198 + 648N)/12 = 16.5 + 54N PPS

    Transpose > Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Flare
    198 + 180N + 180N + 468N = 198 + 828N
    15s
    (198 + 828N)/15 = 13.2 + 55.2N PPS

    Transpose > Flare > Flare
    234N + 468N = 702N
    12s
    702N/12 = 58.5N PPS

    Transpose > Flare > Fire II > Flare
    234N + 180N + 468N = 882N
    15s
    882N/15 = 58.8N PPS


    You have about a half second window to time it correctly, so it's not too bad once you've done it a few times. You can tell before the spell is finished if you messed it up, though. If you time it correctly, you'll get an MP tick about 0.5-1.0s after you start casting. If it comes sooner/later, I would back out of the cast and switch to a Fire III to reduce your potential downtime; if you try to do the Flare again, you may end up losing your UI1 midcast and end up with 75 MP, which may as well be 0.
    so this is leaving out all of the rotations mentioned in previous comments.

    so Fire3>SwiftFlare>Convert>Flare>transpose> Fire3> Flare is

    3.5s+3~s (usage of swiftcast+ gcd for flare)+0s(convert used during SwiftFlare GCD)+4s+1.5s(waiting on ONE mp tic)+3.5s+4s= 21~s casting/waiting time, for a total rotation dps of 220+ (260n*1.8)+260n*1.8)+(220x.9)+(260nx1.8)= 1404n+418/20.5seconds.

    which given 3 targets is 225.85dps

    your fire2 rotation as mathed above (with a corrected time for SwiftFlare at the end, since you still have to wait for the GCD until you can do anything else, so .5~ seconds to activaet swiftcast and 2.5 for GCD (3~ seconds) is 209.29 dps 220+1008(3)/15.5seconds.

    Now if you take the fire2 rotation and ADD convert>Flare at the end you come out higher on 3 targets. (comes out to be (220+1476(3))/19.5~seconds (15.5+4(convert usage counted during the Swiftcast flares' GCD+flare cast)=238.36dps

    So I will concede that Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Swiftcast > Flare > Convert > Flare is better,

    but Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Swiftcast > Flare is not.

    Also, these rotations are ONLY applicable on stuff that will that long/take that much damage, a perfect example if GarudaEX feathers after the rocks are dead. Fire3 (which you cast before the feathers are even in the center), SwiftFlare>convert>Flare, from 1 blm, will kill ALL of the Razor plumes if they are grouped together (which most of them should be if everyone stacks on garuda's butt), so then you have something like 220+468n(x2)/ 3.5+3+4= 20.95+89.14n, which is killer against w/e the number of feathers+garuda you hit (8 or 9 targets~)

    Edit: SOO I was just thinking about this, and IF you can kill the feathers with Fire3>SwiftFlare>convert>Fire2 (which you probably can given what other player should be doing, i.e. WHM Swiftcast Holy>2nd Holy), it should be more overall DPS throughout the fight since you can return to your single target rotation faster (immediately cast bliz3 after fire 2, rather than waiting on transpose>mp tic from the 2nd Flare usage.
    220+468n+180n/9.5 seconds 220+648n/9.5= 23.16+68.21n, while this is considerably lower than the double flare 10.5s rotation, if all of the plumes are dead with it, who cares...now you can get back to your WAY higher/more important single target rotation on the 1 mob that matters.

    I will update the OP with Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Swiftcast > Flare > Convert > Flare for prolonged (20~ seconds) AOE stuff. longer than 20 seconds I would keep transpose>flare going since in another 5.5~ seconds you can have another flare out which is 42.55n dps(remember you have UI1 on now), and another fire2 is 4.5~ seconds for 20n dps...if stuff is lasting too much longer than this...it shouldn't


    "These rotations will always take an exact multiple of 3 seconds to perform due to reliance on MP ticks. As such, spell speed has no impact on the PPS."
    also that is wrong, you have to take an average time, if the lowest time you could wait is nearly instant (close to 0), and the greatest time you have to wait is 3 seconds, then the average is roughly 1.5seconds. the reason you take an average is because there is no way to tell when the next global tic will happen, might be immediately, might have to suffer the full 3~ seconds.

  18. #58
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    My opener and rotations left out Convert/Ether because that's something that can make any rotation stronger, and will not be up always. A rotation should be something repeatable. In Turn 4 for example, Convert's cooldown is too long to use on both AOE phases. I personally don't use it on either unless DPS is slow; I prefer using it to extend my single target damage instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indomitable Will View Post
    your fire2 rotation as mathed above (with a corrected time for SwiftFlare at the end, since you still have to wait for the GCD until you can do anything else
    Sorry, I'm out of town and can't check, but is Transpose on GCD? I could swear I use it immediately after every Flare, even Switfcasted, but I apologize if that was incorrect on my part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indomitable Will View Post
    Also, these rotations are ONLY applicable on stuff that will that long/take that much damage, a perfect example if GarudaEX feathers after the rocks are dead. Fire3 (which you cast before the feathers are even in the center), SwiftFlare>convert>Flare, from 1 blm, will kill ALL of the Razor plumes if they are grouped together (which most of them should be if everyone stacks on garuda's butt), so then you have something like 220+468n(x2)/ 3.5+3+4= 20.95+89.14n, which is killer against w/e the number of feathers+garuda you hit (8 or 9 targets~)
    I agree. These rotations were based on the premise something would live long enough for them to actually be rotated, such as Turn 4. You could say the same of Flare > Convert > Flare, it's "only" useful for things that will die fast. It's all situational; there is no end all be all rotation; that should be obvious.


    Quote Originally Posted by Indomitable Will View Post
    "These rotations will always take an exact multiple of 3 seconds to perform due to reliance on MP ticks. As such, spell speed has no impact on the PPS."
    also that is wrong, you have to take an average time, if the lowest time you could wait is nearly instant (close to 0), and the greatest time you have to wait is 3 seconds, then the average is roughly 1.5seconds. the reason you take an average is because there is no way to tell when the next global tic will happen, might be immediately, might have to suffer the full 3~ seconds.
    The MP ticks always come every three seconds. Even when you're in AF, it's still on the same 3 second timer giving you 0 MP. The first one is uncertain, but beyond that you can know exactly when it's coming.

  19. #59
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    transpose is off the GCD, also this guide is lol


    User was infracted for this post.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamanosukeShiva View Post
    transpose is off the GCD, also this guide is lol
    and like usual you just act like a moron and just laugh instead of giving tips and telling what's wrong with the guide,


    User was infracted for this post.

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