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  1. #1
    Old Odin
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    Dragoon Advanced

    First off, I'm gonna say this is a vastly inferior take on DRG compared to the quite-expansive Rotation Reborn topic on the OF, seen here. You can consider this very much a watered-down tl;dr version of that, and if you really care to know "why"s of stuff I recommend you just check it out.

    Second, I'm pretty much a hand-me-down DRG so I don't have a ton of practical experience on anything beyond Extreme primals. Feel free to yell at me if I've misinterpreted something, or if you just wanna yell and discuss stuff.

    Table o' contents
    1) Abilites
    2) The Rotation
    3) Adds - Low HP targets
    4) Adds - AoE
    5) Gear

    1) Abilities

    Note that natural TP regen in combat is 60/tic, and I factor into a loose net combo TP cost.
    *Since GCD is at maximum 2.5s and the regen tic is every 3 seconds, this is not a perfect measurement. A "tic" occurs every 3 seconds.

    Advised crossclass abilites: Internal Release, Mercy Stroke, and any 3 of Foresight, Second Wind, Mantra, Featherfoot, or Bloodbath. I take Foresight, Second Wind, and Mantra.

    Small note: Heavy Thrust buffs all damage, but Disembowel will only buff the upfront portion of any damaging hit; the DoT portion of Phlebotomize, Chaos Thrust, or Fracture will not be boosted by Disembowel.

    GCD abilities: single-target

    Full Thrust combo: True Thrust (150pot) > Vorpal Thrust (200) > Full Thrust (330)
    Total potency: 680
    Average potency: 226.67
    TP cost: 70 > 60 > 60 (net -10)

    Chaos Thrust combo: Impulse Drive (180pot, rear starter) > Disembowl (220) > Chaos Thrust (200 + 30/tic DoT for 10 tics, total 500)
    Total potency: 600 (+300 DoT)
    Average potency: 200 ("300" including DoT)
    TP cost: 70 > 60 > 60 (net -10)
    *Worth noting, if you just spam this (2-3 ticks on CT's DoT at minimum) it's still 660-690 total potency, 220-230 average. Food for thought.

    Heavy Thrust: 170 pot, flank starter, grants 15% damage bonus for 20 seconds (or next 7-8 GCDs).
    TP cost: 70 (net -10)

    Phlebotomize: 170pot + 25/tic DoT for 6 tics
    Total potency: 320
    TP cost: 90 (net -30)

    Piercing Talon: 120pot. Ranged attack.
    TP cost: 130 (net -70)

    Feint: 120pot. Inflicts Slow. Most endgame bosses are immune, and is subject to diminishing returns if they aren't.
    TP cost: 80 (net -20)

    Fracture: 100pot + 20/tic DoT for 6 tics. Not recommended to use in rotations anymore.
    Total potency: 220
    TP cost: 80 (net -20)

    Skull Sunder: No.

    Haymaker: Don't.

    GCD abilities: AoE

    Doom Spike: 160 pot, line AoE
    TP cost: 160 (net -100)

    Heavy Thrust (170pot, single target, flank opener) > Ring of Thorns (150pot, circle AoE)
    TP cost: 70 > 120 (net -70)

    Ring of Thorns: 100 pot (non-combo'd)
    TP cost: 120 (net -50)

    Off-GCD: Offensive

    Leg Sweep: 20s cooldown. 130 pot, inflicts Stun for 3 seconds. Avoid using if the fight necessitates a Stun rotation, otherwise just a free damage weaved attack.

    Life Surge: 60s cooldown. Next non-autoattack hit within 10 seconds is guaranteed to be critical, and absorbs damage dealt up to 10% of your max HP. Always use with combo'd Full Thrust.

    Blood for Blood: 80s cooldown. Damage dealt increases by 30% and damage taken increases by 25% for 20 seconds. Try not to use this as you're about to take big unavoidable damage from Geocrush, Tumult, Aerial Blast, Hellfire, or Earthen Fury to name a few.

    Internal Release: 60s cooldown. Crit rate +10% for 15s.

    Mercy Stroke: 90s cooldown. 200pot attack that can only be used when target's HP is under 20%. Typically will only get to use this once, maybe twice on a boss. Can be used more frequently in some fights to finish off adds.

    Jump: 40s cooldown. 200pot attack. You will be unable to move freely for a little over a second after you initiate this; this also holds true for the other 2 offensive jumps (Spineshatter and Dragonfire). Use this whenever it is up as long as it does not interfere with dodging AoE or positioning for the next GCD.

    Power Surge: 60s cooldown. Next Jump or Spineshatter Dive within 10 seconds deald 50% more damage. Always pair this with Jump; if Jump is up and this is not, don't wait for it. Does not power up Dragonfire Dive.

    Spineshatter Dive: 90s cooldown. 170pot, inflicts a 2 second Stun. As with Leg Sweep, don't use if it interferes with a Stun rotation. Otherwise save it for a gap-closer in fights that require you to move around a lot, or use it for more damage in fights that do not require this.

    Dragonfire Dive: 3min cooldown. 250pot, small AoE around target. Gap-closer like Spineshatter, so see above for usage advice.

    Off-GCD: Utility/Defensive

    Invigorate: 2min cooldown. Restores 500 TP.

    Elusive Jump: 3min cooldown. Jumps backwards 15y and cuts current enmity in half(? or just a large reduction). Can be used as yet another gap-closer if you're comfortable with eyeballing the distance.

    Keen Flurry: 90s cooldown. Increases parry rate by 80% for 20 seconds. If you need to eat physical for whatever reason, pop it.

    Foresight: 120s cooldown. Increases defense by 20% for 20 seconds. See above.

    Featherfoot: 90s cooldown. Increases evasion by 15% for 15 seconds. See above.

    Second Wind: 120s cooldown. Restores HP. The best way to describe this is that you punch yourself in the face and it heals you (specifically anything that raises the specific Attack Power sub-stat on your stat menu, such as a STR up effect). Not affected by the usual mage-y things that raise cure potency in that regard.

    Bloodbath: 90s cooldown. Converts 25% of damage dealt for 15 seconds into HP. See above, though for any kind of damage rather than just physical.

    Mantra: 120s cooldown. Targets within AoE range are healed for 5% more for 15 seconds. Can be helpful, but not absolutely necessary.

    Limit Breaks

    Braver: LB1, 2s cast time, 2300 potency
    Bladedance: LB2, 3s cast time, 5000 potency
    Final Heaven: LB3, 4.5s cast time, 9000 potency

    LB damage is influenced by the average item level of every party member's weapon, and is not increased by any other means. Therefore in a party with multiple users of melee LB, the least-geared or lowest DPS member should be the user ideally. During the animation the user is unable to move, so be sure not to use it if you need to dodge something within the next 5 to 10 seconds.

    2) The Rotation

    These are the operational goals of the rotation:
    -Keep Heavy Thrust up; assuming 2.50 standard GCD, you must do Heavy Thrust every 8 moves.
    -Keep Disembowl (and by extension, Chaos Thrust) up as much as possible; you should start Impulse Drive for the rear combo 10 moves after you started the previous one.
    -Keep Phlebotomize up because the potency/GCD for it is good.
    -If nothing else needs reapplying, Full Thrust combo.

    There are 2 slight variations of "the" rotation, each are 24 GCDs long (and thus go on for a little under 60 seconds, depending on skill speed). The 2nd is (according to this post) only very slightly less DPS overall so just use whichever you're more comfortable with.

    To help this not feel like a big run-on, think of it as 3 8-move "sets" that all begin with Heavy Thrust.

    1) Heavy > Impulse > Disembowl > Chaos > Phlebotomize > True > Vorpal > Full
    2) Heavy > True > Vorpal > Full > Phleb > Impulse > Disembowl > Chaos
    3) Heavy > True > Vorpal > Full > Phleb > True > Vorpal > Full

    Or, shorthand:

    H IDC P Full
    H Full P IDC
    H Full P Full

    Or, visually:

    If you have 1 or 2 unused hotbars, I advise making a setup like this on your screen if you're just starting to learn the rotation. I use Disembowel as the reminder for Chaos combo because I like more visual confirmation that Impulse combo'd correctly.

    The other slightly less optimal version is to do Phleb after Heavy Thrust instead. For some this is easier to conceptualize (Heavy > Phleb as a 2-move "combo", very similar effect durations). So in shorthand this would be:

    HP IDC Full
    HP Full IDC
    HP Full Full

    The most important thing about the rotation is not to take it as gospel, and to try and always be doing something in cases where you just can't get into position for Heavy Thrust or Impulse Drive. Bosses won't always cooperate, and dodging takes precedence over "just one more hit".

    Weaving in Off GCDs with your opening:
    HT-IR-ID-BFB-Dis-Sweep-CT-PS-Ph-Jump-TT-VT-LS-FT-HT-TT-VT-Sweep-FT-Ph-ID-Dis-CT-HT-TT-VT-Sweep-FT-Ph-Jump-TT-VT-FT

    Plus Mercy Stroke soon as the mob hits 20%. Internal Release gets used first since if you put BFB in that spot you run the risk of it falling off before you can use it on Full Thrust. It doesn't matter if IR falls off for the Full Thrust since you'll be using Life Surge on it anyway. The order of off-GCD abilites will never be the same in any two main ability rotations as they have widely differing cooldowns. The only thing you need to worry about is keeping them on cooldown at all times. Sometimes you'll want to save one or two (such as Leg Sweep for stuns or BFB/LS for bursting an add), but in general they should all be on cooldown.
    3) Adds - Low HP targets

    What you do with low-ish HP single-target adds largely depends on your group's DPS as well, but ideally you want:
    -Heavy Thrust up at all times, obviously
    -Disembowel up ASAP; do not follow through with Chaos Thrust unless the DoT will be able to tick for a decent amount of time (~4-5 ticks or more) or you can apply it to a different target that fits that criteria
    -Phleb up ASAP if you're going to bother with it; again this needs to tick ~4 times to have been worth using usually

    Examples given in Rotation Reborn:
    -Mob lives for 6 GCDs: Heavy > Impulse > Disembowel > True > Vorpal > Full
    -Mob lives for 8 GCDs: Phleb > Heavy > Impulse > Disembowel > Chaos > True > Vorpal > Full

    In cases where adds spawn predictably (examples: Garuda HM/EX sisters, Titan Gaols, Titan EX Gaolers), you can prepare ahead of time by getting Heavy Thrust's buff up fresh, Impulse Drive on the boss, then you have Disembowel ready to go when adds are available to hit.

    4) Adds - AoE

    AoE should generally not be used unless you're dealing with at least 3 adds, as with 2 you can just alternate single target combos more efficiently. As always, it's important to keep Heavy Thrust up. Applying Disembowel to this many targets is obviously unwieldy so forget about that.

    DRG has 2 main options for AoE:
    -Doom Spike is a line AoE hitting everything between you and the target
    -- HT > DS > DS > DS...
    -Heavy Thrust into Ring of Thorns (circle AoE)
    -- HT > RoT > HT > RoT...

    Doom Spike is much better for burst potential but is also a large drain on TP and can be harder to aim quickly depending on how mobs are clustered. HT>RoT can be used over a much longer period due to the net TP loss being much less severe than just Doom Spike spam, and is generally just more recommended if you aren't going to get many "enforced" TP breaks due to fight mechanics.

    Aside from TP longevity your choice mainly comes down to how many mobs you can hit with either AoE, where HT>RoT will usually be the easier choice. Be sure to alternate which target you're doing Heavy Thrust on if doing HT>RoT, to evenly spread out the single-target damage.

    5) Gear

    With few-to-no exceptions, item level is the king of "stats" because they are tied to "primary" stats (STR, Weapon Damage, VIT for left-side items) which can almost never be made up with secondary stats on a lower ilvl piece.

    For physical DPS, the highest known Accuracy needed is 481 to hit the snake adds in Turn 5 of the Binding Coil of Bahamut. Previously ~473 has been reported to be the accuracy needed for Twintania, with a little less for previous Turns, but people are gradually testing how much Acc you can shave off for secondary stats while still achieving acceptable Acc. If you are not taking your DRG into Coil, you will not require a very significant amount of Accuracy for any content up to and including Extreme difficulty Primals.

    Stat weights (for DRG):
    Weapon Damage: 8.488
    Strength: 1
    Determination: .323
    Crit: 0.184
    Skill Speed: .152

    Following are a few links to possible "best in slot" gearsets depending on what kind of gear you have access to and what Accuracy you want to hit. Keep in mind that you can always use food (Deviled Eggs or Stuffed Cabbage) to make up for some Accuracy "loss".

    Can clear Turn 5
    Pre-Turn 5, EX Primals OK
    Pre-Turn 5, No EX Primals

  2. #2
    Electric Six groupie
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    I would challenge the cross-class skill selection - Bloodbath before Foresight. Foresight is a straight Defense% boost (not damage mitigation%) and I have never seen a difference with it up and with it down. Bloodbath is at least a nice HP drain for fights that have heavy AoE to use when Second Wind is down.

    Also note that on all Primals (HM and XM) using Blood for Blood at the start of the fight is quite safe. There are also specific times you can pop it again before any major AoEs (harder on Titan, easier on the others). Unless you suck at avoiding avoidables.

    For Titan HM, using it at the start of phase 1, 3, and heart will both time up well (if dps is above average) and be 100% safe from Tumults. After the heart you can use it anytime after Bomb+Plumes to avoid Tumults. For Titan XM I'm still working out a sound setup in the early phases but so far I've been doing start of phase 1, heart, and adds* (unless you end up "tanking" one of the adds then don't pop it).

    Garuda is really simple because there is nothing you are avoiding except timed Aerial Blasts. XM You can get two BfBs before the penta-cyclone phase without worry. Depending on party setup you may want to consider saving BfB for add (if dps is too low) or for Plumes+Garuda when Garuda is back in the center.

    Ifrit really doesn't have much AoE to worry about even in the XM beyond obvious mechanics to avoid.

    With BfB you should never shy away from manually turning it off if you realize you popped it too soon/late. You are better alive with lower dps than dead with no dps. But that should be a no-brainer.

    Another thing to never shy away from is cancelling rotations. Accidentally use True Thrust instead of Heavy Thrust? Don't go to Vorpal + Full Thrust; get that Heavy Thrust back up first and then restart.

    Thanks for making a BG Dragoon guide!

  3. #3
    Old Odin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybar View Post
    I would challenge the cross-class skill selection - Bloodbath before Foresight. Foresight is a straight Defense% boost (not damage mitigation%) and I have never seen a difference with it up and with it down. Bloodbath is at least a nice HP drain for fights that have heavy AoE to use when Second Wind is down.

    Another thing to never shy away from is cancelling rotations. Accidentally use True Thrust instead of Heavy Thrust? Don't go to Vorpal + Full Thrust; get that Heavy Thrust back up first and then restart.
    Eh, yeah I'm probably underselling Bloodbath. I just like popping Foresight for Wicked Wheel but I could also just not eat WW in the first place :V

    I do this more often than I'd like, being new-ish to DRG (start True accidentally that is). I start off doing Heavy > combo > Phleb > combo but sometimes flub it somewhere so I transition to HP > combo > combo because I was used to doing that before (and because it used to be like HP Fracture so Chaos wouldn't clip).

  4. #4
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    Infraction for Serdapi: Thread Trolling

    Thanks so much for creating this guide. Drg was my main 50 in 1.0, but after ARR release it felt quite different and I have been feeling awkward about getting back into it until reading this over. Time to give smn and whm a bit of a rest. DRG full speed ahead.

  5. #5
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Cleaned up the thread.

    If you want the guide to get better, contribute. This section is both for theorycrafting and for guides. So help new threads improve, don't bitch.

  6. #6
    Old Odin
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    Well need to add back in that Fracture reply anyways:

    AFAIK the main reason Fracture isn't used anymore:
    Very old rotation was something like
    HPF IDC Full
    HPF Full IDC
    HPF Full Full
    because Fracture would allow you to not clip CT as much, or have to wait for CT to not clip it. Full Thrust combo was also lower average potency (150>200>300=650/3=~216.67, less than Fracture's 220).

    Nowadays you can just clip CT by 1-2ticks if you absolutely must, and FT combo is higher average (680/3=~226.67), so Fracture is mostly just a TP loss. For DRG specifically. Still useful for MNK afaik, but I'm barely acquainted with MNK.

  7. #7
    RNGesus
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    Can you explain a bit why Heavy > Phleb is slightly less optimal than Heavy > Impulse combo > Phleb?

  8. #8
    Old Odin
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    It's in a post I linked in 2nd "paragraph" under section 2, but I'll just quote it:

    Quote Originally Posted by EasymodeX
    Because if you do it that way then the IDC refresh is staggered and the stagger ends up cascading and resulting in slightly shaky timing.

    HP IDC TTT ?

    If you use TTT again then the HP goes down.

    If you use HP again then:

    HP IDC TTT
    HP ???

    If you use IDC, then that clips heavily. If you use TTT:

    HP IDC TTT
    HP TTT IDC

    Then the second IDC clips a bit (est. 2 ticks), but it is not horrendous. The problem is the next sequence:

    HP IDC TTT
    HP TTT IDC (note: the clipping here is already inefficient compared to the original H-IDC-P approach)
    HP TTT ???

    In this case, what do you use? If you use IDC, then it will again clip very heavily (est. 4 ticks). If you use TTT, then you will lose a GCD of DE uptime and end up with some CT downtime.

    However, due to the 2.1 clip changes and the raw strength of CT, the clipping and downtime in this sequence is not "horrible". It's just less efficient than:

    H IDC P TTT H TTT
    P IDC H TTT P TTT


    The HP IDC offset approach is actually less than a percent weaker than the alternating H/P approach, so use whatever you're comfortable with. They're both 24 attacks long.

  9. #9
    CoP Dynamis
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    The idea is you are constantly reapplying buffs that are about to fall before they actually do so. With Heavy > phelb rotations something will always fall off before you repeat the rotation.

  10. #10
    green jellybean
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    One thing that I have always tended to do for my first rotation is move pleb to after my first full thrust combo, this way I immediately use Lifesurge (with BfB.) I figure getting life-surge on cooldown should be considered a priority over the DoT, but I'm not sure that is true.

    I also don't see much discussion on buff usage. I tend to use Internal Release during the CT combo when I can, and after the first fall I try to spread it out so that BfB is up when I use LifeSurge, and Internal Release is used after that. If life surge guarantees a crit, it seems a waste to have the crit % buff up at the same time.

  11. #11
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    Titan EX opening (also works on just about everything)

    From side just as shield lob goes out: SSD > HT > BfB > ID > IR > Dis > PS > CT > Jump > Phleb > Leg > True > Vorpal > LS > Full > Heavy > True > Vorpal > Full > Phleb > ID (just before turn for landslide) > Dis > Leg > CT (As Titan jumps into air)

    With this you can burst to 400 I've been told, I don't actually parse myself. I save DFD for gaols. Buffs on cooldown unless disengage is coming. Bloodbath/Second Wind if I'm BfB through tumults, though the extra healing usually isn't needed with our HP pool.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul Side View Post
    Titan EX opening (also works on just about everything)

    From side just as shield lob goes out: SSD > HT > BfB > ID > IR > Dis > PS > CT > Jump > Phleb > Leg > True > Vorpal > LS > Full > Heavy > True > Vorpal > Full > Phleb > ID (just before turn for landslide) > Dis > Leg > CT (As Titan jumps into air)
    This is close to what I do, but I've heard it's best to get rid of leg sweep as soon as possible. It comes back so quickly that it's good to get rid of it all the time to increase your DPS. Also, I just blow DFD whenever it's up, but that's personal preference, gaols die so quickly anyway that I hate to see it go to waste.

    I do:
    SSD > HT > BfB > ID > IR > Dis > Sweep > CT > DFD > Ph > PS > T > Jump > V > LS > F > Continue Rotation

    This way you'll Have Leg Sweep up again before your 2nd Full Thrust. You'll also find that you'll be using Jump immediately after dodging plumes/landslide (can't remember which at the moment). I like using Jump right after a mechanic because it's stupid and it slows down your movement.

    AFAIK SSD/DFD are interchangeable, and if I don't need one for a gap closer, I'll throw it at the end (right after Full Thrust) instead. It's cool to close combos with jumps/dives because your character looks like a maniac.

    Defensives: I like to use Foresight and Bloodbath together for tanky parts (gaolers if they're on you, also last Knight on T4 for some strats), and of course Second Wind if I get my ass kicked. I've found I can pop these and tank a single gaoler, coming out with damn near all my HP.

  13. #13
    Old Odin
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    I've been opening with like...

    HT (Sweep) > ID (IR) > Disem (B4B) > CT (Power) > Phleb (Jump*) > T (SSD/DFD if using) > V (LS) > F
    *Will sometimes delay 1-2 moves because mechanics

    B4B falls off after this at: HT > T > V (here) > F, with my current gear. With a bit more speed (gear or Selene maybe) you could probably get in that 2nd Full Thrust but idk if it's worth it. This point was brought up in this thread before but the guy got his posts deleted.

    Have started using Bloodbath instead of Mantra. Could take out Foresight to have both but not much call for it in events I bring my DRG to.

  14. #14
    Electric Six groupie
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    For Dragonfire Dive, if you blow it at the beginning it will be up for Heart-phase Gaols and you'll get double duty out of its damage - you should also be in BfB at this stage too. This is of course assuming you are in the Yoshi-P standard party setup.

  15. #15
    Old Odin
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    Anyone experience issues with Doom Spike in CT? Like almost everywhere else the line continues to go for its full length, but in CT (specifically the first trash pull) it always seems to stop at my target even if there are applicable mobs beyond it.

  16. #16
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    I've been toying around a bit with my rotation, foregoing a Phleb in the middle of it to get 3 FTs off a single B4B (not the entire FT combo, just FT itself at the end of it) with IR up. Basically, trying to get the utmost out of B4B with our single most powerful move. Here's what I've been doing:

    HT -> P -> IDC -> TT - > VT -> B4B -> LS -> FT -> IR -> HT -> TT -> VT -> Life Surge -> FT-> TT -> VT -> FT -> P -> HT -> IDC

    If you weave in other off-GCDs correctly (as in, using a PS-Jump during FT to cut the animation short), you'll have JUST enough time to get that third FT off while B4B is still up. Since FT crits can hit upwards of 1300+, I'm thinking that the extra potential damage from getting 3x FTs up with B4B would outweigh the small DPS-loss by not having P up 100%. What do you guys think?

  17. #17
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    Phlebotomize is 320 potency total, FT is 330. I'd say it's a much of a muchness.

  18. #18
    Old Odin
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    Doing 3 FTs in a row I'd think the 3rd wouldn't have Disembowel up but don't remember and too lazy atm to check. It also kind of messes with your groove in general and a B4B'd Phleb, while not wow'ing the ladies with 4-digit crits, is still quite good as mentioned above. Also not getting in CT while BFB is up is a crime.

  19. #19
    Smells like Onions
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    Hi New to dragoon and was wondering if this was a decent rotation and if not what could be changed.

    Ht-IR-ID-B4b-Dis-Ps-Ct-J-PH-Dfd/Ssd-Tt-Sweep-Vt-Ls-Ft-Ht-TT-Vt-Ft-Ph-Id-Dis-Ct-Ht-Tt-Vt-Ft-Ph-Tt-Vt-Ft

  20. #20
    Remit One (1) Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,430
    BG Level
    7
    FFXIV Character
    Qeomash Pandemonium
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    Cactuar
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    Asura

    Quote Originally Posted by Seravi Edalborez View Post
    Doing 3 FTs in a row I'd think the 3rd wouldn't have Disembowel up but don't remember and too lazy atm to check. It also kind of messes with your groove in general and a B4B'd Phleb, while not wow'ing the ladies with 4-digit crits, is still quite good as mentioned above. Also not getting in CT while BFB is up is a crime.
    Disembowel should last through three FT combos. Heavy Thrust, however, will not last. The tail end of my rotation is --> Disembowel > Heavy Thrust > Phleb > Full Thrust x2. Both the Disembowel and Heavy Thrust are wearing about then, so if you skip the Heavy Thrust/Dots before that yes, you should still have Dis up but you definitely don't have HT anymore.

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