XIV at E3 2014 (June 10-12)

[Kaixin]

Last time I checked there is other content in the game that isn't locked.

OK, the number of friends that I would like to do coil with is greater than 7.

[Sol-Blackguy]

I actually really like the basic concept behind the armory system, despite the work-arounds they need to invent to circumvent the "limitations" implied by the base class > first job implemented. It's nice that they'll put in a whole new base class to implement something like Red Mage if they decide to go with Fleurets over swords (and Gladiator doesn't seem prepared to inherit Red mage duties either, hence the "limitation"), but man is it going to slow down the #2 branch jobs for everything.

Personally I'd like to see them implement a base class for every weapon and, in my mind, that basically means the ones left are (not including Rogue):

-Rapiers/Fleurets (Fencer?)
-Greatsword (Mystic Knight?/Dark Knight?) - unless they build over Gladiator somehow
-Scimitars (Blue Mage?) - unless they build over Gladiator again
-Crossbow (Hunter?) - or evolved from archer...
-Gun (Gunner/Corsair?)
-Scythe (Dark Knight?)

Others that seem less likely:
-Nunchaku
-Hammers
-Whips
-1h Axe
-Bells (but who knows, right?)

Seems like every few months this discussion comes up. Just tell us your grand plan already SE! FUCK CRYSTAL TOWER DO THIS INSTEAD!

I like this idea!

[lilbubbles]

I never played wow, but the ff 11 I played had no lock outs where you had to take a specific amount of people.

[Seravi Edalborez]

A thousand times, this.

For everyone speculating (perhaps correctly, who knows) that RDM is going to branch off of gladiator, you have to contend with the fact their base class is going to have two defensive cooldowns, only one combo that creates enmity and shit baseline stats for anything magical. As mentioned previously, anyone thinking LNC will split to anything else needs to consider Full THRUST True THRUST Vorpal THRUST and rear-combo as baseline tools. Those aren't very DRK or SAM sounding to me. PUG is the only one that sort of lends itself to PUP or DNC but even then, you're still looking at specifically-martial-arts sounding attacks for everything.

Jobs not getting their own Traits doesn't help much. I wouldn't mind a revamp with an expansion but then everyone will complain about Burning Crusade.

@underlined: Not really a problem. SCH magically (in comparison to ACN/SMN) gets an assload of MND and PIE, like over 100 points total. If LNC ever got a tank class they would just magically get a lot of VIT/whatever else they need. Same with any job doing something radically different.

Definitely seconding that we need another 2nd job though.

[Kaslo]

Lancer to Templar has sounded really cool, but I don't see it actually happening.

[Skai]

I actually really like the basic concept behind the armory system, despite the work-arounds they need to invent to circumvent the "limitations" implied by the base class > first job implemented. It's nice that they'll put in a whole new base class to implement something like Red Mage if they decide to go with Fleurets over swords (and Gladiator doesn't seem prepared to inherit Red mage duties either, hence the "limitation"), but man is it going to slow down the #2 branch jobs for everything.

Personally I'd like to see them implement a base class for every weapon and, in my mind, that basically means the ones left are (not including Rogue):

-Rapiers/Fleurets (Fencer?)
-Greatsword (Mystic Knight?/Dark Knight?) - unless they build over Gladiator somehow
-Scimitars (Blue Mage?) - unless they build over Gladiator again
-Crossbow (Hunter?) - or evolved from archer...
-Gun (Gunner/Corsair?)
-Scythe (Dark Knight?)

Others that seem less likely:
-Nunchaku
-Hammers
-Whips
-1h Axe
-Bells (but who knows, right?)

Seems like every few months this discussion comes up. Just tell us your grand plan already SE! FUCK CRYSTAL TOWER DO THIS INSTEAD!

We already have a scythe class. It's called botanist.

[Kelenae]

I never played wow, but the ff 11 I played had no lock outs where you had to take a specific amount of people.

Didnt Dynamis have a small lock out? Dont remember, its been years.

[Dammerung]

Didnt Dynamis have a small lock out? Dont remember, its been years.

Dynamis/Limbus 72hr lockout
Salvage 24hr lockout

Point is you can do all of that with a variable amount of people and not forced to be nothing but 8.

[Doombard]

Lancer to Templar has sounded really cool, but I don't see it actually happening.

I can't actually think of another job that would use spears though. Unless they just say fuck it, this job uses spears now.

[Alkar]

Apparently some new traits showed up in 2.28, Rogue related.

http://xivdb.com/?search/!patch-Patch2.28 (Skill TAB in japanese)

DEX traits, fall damage reduction, movement speed increased, movement speed penalty reduced under Stealth, TP regen increased and a bunch of buffs to other skills.

[Kaslo]

Dynamis/Limbus 72hr lockout
Salvage 24hr lockout

Point is you can do all of that with a variable amount of people and not forced to be nothing but 8.

Also, lockout was not a specific date/time, but based upon when you last entered.

[Cutriss]

Also, lockout was not a specific date/time, but based upon when you last entered.

Not accurate. Salvage was not technically a 24 hour lockout. The lockout was obtaining the entry pass itself, which you could have one on standby for, so basically being able to do two back-to-back. Obtaining the pass itself was locked to once per RL day. You could obtain a pass 15 minutes before JP midnight, enter Salvage, wipe to Arrapago, exit, and get your next pass in 20 minutes.

These are one per RL week without the obfuscation of the entry passes, so it's fairly similar. You could complete two coil sets straddling the JP midnight weekly reset and basically be in the same position that you might be in if you only did Salvage twice a week.

Bear in mind, I quit in like, 2010, so that's how it *was* back in the pre-Abyssea days.

Dynamis was a true "72 hour lockout".

[Kaslo]

Not accurate. Salvage was not technically a 24 hour lockout. The lockout was obtaining the entry pass itself, which you could have one on standby for, so basically being able to do two back-to-back. Obtaining the pass itself was locked to once per RL day. You could obtain a pass 15 minutes before JP midnight, enter Salvage, wipe to Arrapago, exit, and get your next pass in 20 minutes.

To be fair, I meant to respond on the issue of Limbus/Dynamis, I gave up on Salvage so quickly I couldn't even tell you if there was a lockout

[Kelenae]

To be fair, I meant to respond on the issue of Limbus/Dynamis, I gave up on Salvage so quickly I couldn't even tell you if there was a lockout

Salvage was so fun tho :3

[Kaslo]

Yep, sitting around waiting on a bee to spawn was tons of fun.

[lilbubbles]

Ya, everyone got to participate. When a new person joined the ls we could put them into a salvage team immediately and if a team got too big we could split people up and form an additional one. If someone couldn't make it, it wasn't a big deal.

FF14: New person joins the FC, "ugh.. ya, so we will look out for a group that needs you." if someone can't make it one night, "fuuuuuuuuuuu"

Coil 2 adding the sand/oil dynamic made it even worse because good luck finding a person to sub in for a night that will agree to pass on those...

The lockout by itself isn't a problem... its the combination of everything that makes it the bad perfect shitstorm it is.

You can't even build a farm group because unless you are adopted irl you won't get all the drops you need before the next iteration of coil comes out... me and the healer I ran with in coil1 didn't get allagan gloves, a turn 1 drop, until coil 2 came out. The entire reason I became a caster was because healer stuff never dropped and my caster became better geared even though I only got to greed after the other 2 blms got what they wanted lol.

[Kaslo]

Ya, everyone got to participate. When a new person joined the ls we could put them into a salvage team immediately and if a team got too big we could split people up and form an additional one. If someone couldn't make it, it wasn't a big deal.

FF14: New person joins the FC, "ugh.. ya, so we will look out for a group that needs you." if someone can't make it one night, "fuuuuuuuuuuu"

Coil 2 adding the sand/oil dynamic made it even worse because good luck finding a person to sub in for a night that will agree to pass on those...

The lockout by itself isn't a problem... its the combination of everything that makes it the bad perfect shitstorm it is.

You can't even build a farm group because unless you are adopted irl you won't get all the drops you need before the next iteration of coil comes out... me and the healer I ran with in coil1 didn't get allagan gloves, a turn 1 drop, until coil 2 came out. The entire reason I became a caster was because healer stuff never dropped and my caster became better geared even though I only got to greed after the other 2 blms got what they wanted lol.

I just view sand/oils as another gear drop (but for all jobs) and so think it should be up for grabs to pug players, just like any other piece of gear. The tomestone I see differently, and wouldn't mind if the PF said it was reserved.

[Raldo]

The tomestone I see differently, and wouldn't mind if the PF said it was reserved.

Interesting, I view it the other way for the tome. You generally only "need" one tome for your coil job, and once you have it, it's easy to just throw it at PUGs to appease them. Oils and sands... it's rare even at this point that everyone doesn't want them.

[lilbubbles]

The problem with the sand is that there is no fair way to distribute it to a pug..

We ran into this problem awhile back when we had a guy that had to leave for a week...

There was a person in line for the next sand.. if the pug rolled against that person the pug would have a 50/50 chance to the sand. That isn't fair.

If we all rolled for it, it might go to someone who didn't need it and that would be a waste.

There is no way to give the pug the 1/8 chance to win it while still respecting the will of the other 7. Other games will let you trade items shortly after winning them

It is another one of those things where... each element by itself isn't so bad...

[Lucavi]

There is no way to give the pug the 1/8 chance to win it while still respecting the will of the other 7. Other games will let you trade items shortly after winning them

Many systems are exploitable, including this one. 3 people lot with the intention of trading it to one of the 3, thereby tripling that person's odds of getting it. Situationally, that's not fair to others in the group, especially if they weren't aware of this little deal.

No system is perfect. The current system is far from perfect. It boils down to a preference for freedom (and all the drama that can arise from that) vs. structure (and the frustrations that come from the limitations of such rigid structure).