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  1. #141
    Nidhogg
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    Guess I should start grabbing some plates for my Rhongomiant. :D Any idea how to calculate 20 TP per hit with new TP gains for polearm 492 yet? Also Drakes still has the attack penalty?
    The tests were done on level 1 rabbits, so you're only looking at the first hit, so of course the 1hit WS will outperform the Drakes/Stardivers, those are 4 hit WS. Also Drakesbane still has an attack penalty, and I'm sure it's generalized to Reso/Penta thrust and Blade Shun. Looks like the WS that were considered 'strong' didn't get buffed(Rampage, Penta, Drakes) which is odd, its like SE is trapped in 2005 because those WS were weak compared to the new kings VS/Fudo which both got buffed and didn't necessarily need em. Odd that they would make top tier WS like Fudo/VS/Resolution stronger but not buff Drakesbane. Mythic DRG gonna have to just get AM3 with their mythic WS and then use their merit exlusively now, like other mythic ws users.

  2. #142
    Bitchfist
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    K, so Insurgency. I was going to do one or two more ws's also and just dump the whole packet but this one was exciting. First and foremost, just off basic observation, ftp went from 0.5 to right around 1.0. I base this simply off the fact that I'm only seeing the first hit off of a 4 hit ws, but since its a crit the damage was exactly within the parameters I was getting from crit hits while getting tp. This is for the results for ~1000 tp, obv.
    Spoiler: show


    This doesn't take into account mods though so I'll leave it to Moten and Co. to figure it out, but its prolly in the .9 to 1.0 range.
    Here's where it gets fun though: from 2000+, the damage goes a little looney. Again, its only the first hit of 4:

    Code:
    119 Apocalypse   
    105 STR / 89 INT / 71 MND
    440 Scythe Skill
    840 attack
    142tp per swing / 513 delay / drk/thf
    
    Wild Rabbits, West Ronfaure-North sandy exit
    ------------------------------------------------
    Insurgency
    
    TP     WS
    1136 > 927
    1136 > 951
    1136 > 916
    1136 > 957
    1142 > 960
    
    2130 > 3911
    2130 > 3894
    2130 > 4005
    2130 > 3991
    2136 > 3980
    
    3000 > 6573
    3000 > 6411
    3000 > 6677
    Insurgency stronk

  3. #143
    Impossiblu
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    Can't figure out Leaden Salute, it's being difficult.



    Leaden Salute
    AGI: 122
    Total WSC: 223
    dAGI(enemy int:6): 232


    1000TP damage: 1328
    2000TP damage: 2067
    3000TP damage: 2972


    With a lv 90 Armageddon, so shouldn't be being affected by any formula changes. But it doesn't add up.

    223 * 4 = 892
    892 + 232 = 1124

    1000TP value was 1328. Something else is at play here. It only lines up if WSC is 274, so there's an extra 51 points coming from somewhere. This would imply that the level term is set to 150, but that makes no sense unless the changes from iLvl are across all weapons, not just iLvl ones.


    1000TP damage w/ 117 gun and 107 AGI: 1414

    Total WSC (w/ level = 150): 259
    Total WSC (w/ level = 168): 277
    dAGI: 202

    1414 - 202 = 1212
    1212/259 = 4.68
    1212/277 = 4.375

    So neither of those work, but bumping up WSC from 150 to 194 to put WSC at 303 matches perfectly, so an additional 44 base damage, or 2.44444 damage per level. Something still seems odd. It might not be an issue with the WSC term, but something else. I'm pretty sure rabbits don't take extra damage from darkness, so that isn't it.





    If we assume that this is what's happening, it puts Leaden Salute's fTP at 3,000 at 10 and fTP at 2,000 likely sits at 6.75, but can't say for certain until these abnormalities are pinpointed.

  4. #144
    Bitchfist
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    Cross Reaper:

    Code:
    119 Apocalypse   
    105 STR / 89 INT / 71 MND
    440 Scythe Skill
    840 attack
    142tp per swing / 513 delay / drk/thf
    
    Wild Rabbits, West Ronfaure-North sandy exit
    ------------------------------------------------
    Cross Reaper
    
    Tp     WS
    1136 > 3039
    1136 > 2932
    1136 > 2918
    1136 > 2916
    1136 > 2966
    
    2130 > 5857
    2130 > 5733
    2130 > 5657
    2130 > 5744
    2130 > 5661
    
    3000 > 9321
    3000 > 9049
    3000 > 9230


    Aaaaand I'm done for the day, I'll do 3-4 more tomorrow.

  5. #145
    Impossiblu
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    Addendum to Leaden Salute post: I misread; the level term changes based on character level and weapon iLvl, so the 150 still makes sense as a new base for a level 99 character.

  6. #146
    Relic Horn
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    Test to see whether Resolution still has the level correction mod.

    All tests done on Wild Rabbits, with a 22 DMG great sword, with exactly 1000 TP.

    105 STR, SA Resolution did 275 damage.

    If mod is still there:
    Floor(((22+floor(22/9)+8+105*0.85)*fTP)*3 to 3.15)*1.08)=275
    fTP = 0.670 to 0.710

    If mod is missing:
    Floor(((22+floor(22/9)+8+105)*fTP)*3 to 3.15)*1.08)=275
    fTP = 0.592 to 0.627

    291 STR, SA Resolution did 650 damage.

    If mod is still there:
    Floor(((22+floor(22/9)+8+291*0.85)*fTP)*3 to 3.15)*1.08)=650
    fTP = 0.689 to 0.720

    If mod is missing:
    Floor(((22+floor(22/9)+8+291)*fTP)*3 to 3.15)*1.08)=650
    fTP = 0.595 to 0.622

    Conclusion: I can't conclude crap, other than the fact that if the mod penalty was removed, Resolution's fTP is a lot lower than was previously tested. I'm going to have to break out some brews to tell for sure.

    Feel free to point out any math errors I made.

  7. #147
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prothescar View Post
    Addendum to Leaden Salute post: I misread; the level term changes based on character level and weapon iLvl, so the 150 still makes sense as a new base for a level 99 character.
    When I was doing TF I got 152 for lvl 99 and 201 at 119. But I was just counting in the +2 part since it isn't straight level now. Given your 194 at 117 it looks like ~2.5 per level.

    Also given the values you got for the 200/300 it looks like you forgot to put the +2 back in when calculating tps or rounding down on the ftps. Looks like they might have crazy ones like TF does now though a bit higher

  8. #148
    Chram
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    Insurgency
    Spoiler: show

    119 Apocalypse
    105 STR / 89 INT / 71 MND
    440 Scythe Skill
    840 attack
    142tp per swing / 513 delay / drk/thf

    Wild Rabbits, West Ronfaure-North sandy exit
    ------------------------------------------------
    Insurgency

    TP WS
    1136 > 916
    1136 > 927
    1136 > 951
    1136 > 957
    1142 > 960

    2130 > 3894
    2130 > 3911
    2136 > 3980
    2130 > 3991
    2130 > 4005

    3000 > 6411
    3000 > 6573
    3000 > 6677


    WSC = STR: 20%, INT: 20% == 38
    fStr: 24
    Weapon: 266
    Total base = 328

    Starting at 3000 for the fixed anchor:

    @3000
    6360-6573 >> 2120-2191
    6.463 - 6.679
    fTP = 6.5

    @2130
    3792-3894 >> 1264-1298
    3.854-3.957
    is 87% of distance from 3000 to 2000
    Diff from 6.5: 2.542-2.646
    /87% ==> 2.923-3.041
    Diff == 3.0
    fTP = 6.5 - 3.0 = 3.5

    @1136
    915 >> 305
    0.930-0.932
    86.4% of spread relative to 3.5
    Diff from 3.5: 2.567-2.570
    /86.4% ==> 2.971-2.974
    Diff == 3.0 (allowing for some rounding when re-calculating parts of this)
    fTP = 3.5 - 3.0 = 0.5



    Insurgency: 0.5 > 3.5 > 6.5

    It looked close to 1.0 fTP because you now hit 1.0 at 1143 TP, and you were weaponskilling at 1136-1142.

  9. #149
    Bitchfist
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    Damn, didn't expect it to scale that quickly.

    So short version: Don't WS at 100%

  10. #150
    Relic Horn
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    Test to see whether Resolution still has the level correction mod, round 2.

    All tests done on Shadow Lizards, with a 22 DMG great sword, with 3000 TP.

    110 STR, SA Resolution did 913 damage.

    If mod is still there:
    Floor(((22+floor(22/9)+8+110*0.85)*fTP)*3 to 3.15)*1.08)=913
    fTP = 2.152-2.264

    If mod is missing:
    Floor(((22+floor(22/9)+8+110)*fTP)*3 to 3.15)*1.08)=913
    fTP = 1.895-1.992

    999 STR, SA Resolution did 6519 damage.

    If mod is still there:
    Floor(((22+floor(22/9)+8+999*0.85)*fTP)*3 to 3.15)*1.08)=6519
    fTP = 2.175-2.284

    If mod is missing:
    Floor(((22+floor(22/9)+8+999)*fTP)*3 to 3.15)*1.08)=6519
    fTP = 1.860-1.952

    Conclusion: I still can't conclude anything concrete without more examples of Resolution at in these conditions. However, since I find it unlikely SE ninja nerfed Resolution's fTP, it's very likely the level correction mod is still active, despite what SE claimed.

    Feel free to point out any math errors I made.

  11. #151
    Chram
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    Cross Reaper
    Spoiler: show

    119 Apocalypse
    105 STR / 89 INT / 71 MND
    440 Scythe Skill
    840 attack
    142tp per swing / 513 delay / drk/thf

    Wild Rabbits, West Ronfaure-North sandy exit
    ------------------------------------------------
    Cross Reaper

    Tp WS
    1136 > 2916
    1136 > 2918
    1136 > 2932
    1136 > 2966
    1136 > 3039

    2130 > 5657
    2130 > 5661
    2130 > 5733
    2130 > 5744
    2130 > 5857

    3000 > 9049
    3000 > 9230
    3000 > 9321


    WSC = STR: 60%, MND: 60% == 105
    fStr: 24
    Weapon: 266
    Total base = 395


    Starting at 3000 for the fixed anchor:

    @3000
    8880-9048 >> 2960-3016
    7.494 - 7.635
    fTP = 7.5

    @2130
    5580-5655 >> 1860-1885
    4.709-4.772
    is 87% of distance from 3000 to 2000
    Diff from 7.5: 2.728-2.791
    /87% ==> 3.135-3.208
    Diff from 7.5 == 4.292-4.365
    >> estimating at 4+10/32 == 4.3125


    @1136
    2895-2916 >> 965-972
    2.443-2.463
    86.4% of spread relative to 4.3
    Diff from 4.3: 1.837-1.857
    /86.4% ==> 2.126-2.149
    Diff == 2.125-2.15
    fTP = 4.3 - (2.125|2.15) = 2.15-2.175
    >> estimating at 2 + 5/32 == 2.15625



    Cross Reaper: 2.15625 > 4.3125 > 7.5

  12. #152
    Impossiblu
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Also given the values you got for the 200/300 it looks like you forgot to put the +2 back in when calculating tps or rounding down on the ftps. Looks like they might have crazy ones like TF does now though a bit higher
    I didn't. 150 + 2 + 122 = 274
    274 * 4 = 1096
    1096 + 232 = 1328

    which matches the 1000TP value for 4fTP.

    then

    2067 - 232 = 1835
    1835/274 = 6.7, so 6.75 fits better than any other value.

    2972 - 232 = 2740
    2740/274 = 10


    I need to do tests with SB later to find exactly how lv and iLvl change the level term since SB wasn't changed otherwise.

  13. #153
    Chram
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indalecia View Post
    Damn, didn't expect it to scale that quickly.

    So short version: Don't WS at 100%
    Really. Just did a quick check on the spreadsheet, adjusting the minimum TP to weaponskill at. If using Insurgency, overall DPS (including melee) doesn't start going down til after 270 TP. It increases all the way up to that point.

  14. #154
    Custom Title
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    Well I'm glad I held onto this Death Sickle for years, fuck...

  15. #155
    a p. sweet dude
    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!

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    No one messed about with Torcleaver yet?

  16. #156
    Relic Horn
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    Insurgency is strong at 3000 TP, but Entropy is stronger at 3000 TP, and Resolution is stronger still.

    At 3000 TP, Insurgency has ~9.5 fTP with 20% STR and 20% INT, Entropy has ~9.8 with 100 INT mod, and Resolution has ~12 with 100 STR mod.

  17. #157
    Chram
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    Can you point me at the test data for Entropy and Resolution? I haven't seen any here.

  18. #158
    Relic Horn
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    No test data; just me doing a single 300 tp SA WS with each on TW and seeing that they do roughly triple damage as at 1000 TP. Not enough to pin down the exact numbers, but enough to know the ballpark fTP.

    I did do more thorough numbers on Resolution in this topic, though. It's on this page, in fact.

  19. #159
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prothescar View Post
    I didn't. 150 + 2 + 122 = 274
    274 * 4 = 1096
    1096 + 232 = 1328

    which matches the 1000TP value for 4fTP.

    then

    2067 - 232 = 1835
    1835/274 = 6.7, so 6.75 fits better than any other value.

    2972 - 232 = 2740
    2740/274 = 10


    I need to do tests with SB later to find exactly how lv and iLvl change the level term since SB wasn't changed otherwise.
    Ah I think I messed up the 300% and then just didn't expect that much rounding on the 200%. Still think it might be some weird xxx/256 value though for 200%. Either way it remains a tad better than the rng equivalent even before you get into the tools that cor gets. And dat 10 ftp lol

  20. #160
    Chram
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    If you want to validate the mod values for a weaponskill with an unknown fTP, you have to go back to the old method: 20-30 SA+weaponskill with and 20-30 SA+weaponskill without a gorget on (or gorget+belt, to make it easier), and then analyze the distribution pattern.

    Otherwise there's no real comparison that can be made between those weaponskills at this time.

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