Rehauled Weapon Skills: tier lists

[Motenten]

Added Rudra's Storm to data and summary posts. Rudra's summary:

Rudra's Storm fTP: 3.25 > 6.6/6.75 > 8.875

Note that fTP scales from 1000 to 2000 TP at at least the same rate as 0 to 1000 TP. This severely mitigates loss of damage due to holding TP (though not entirely, since fTP doesn't affect the dex/agi of SA/TA). In general, total weaponskill damage increases by about 50% going from 1000 to 2000 TP.

Substantially less loss holding TP means that it helps both in waiting for SA/TA timers, and mitigating JA delay.

Also, comes out to basicaly the same damage as Mercy Stroke at 1000 TP, while of course increasing substantially at higher TP.

Overall, lots of very nice benefits for thf using this.

[Byrthnoth]

Note that fTP scales from 1000 to 2000 TP at at least the same rate as 0 to 1000 TP. This severely mitigates loss of damage due to holding TP (though not entirely, since fTP doesn't affect the dex/agi of SA/TA). In general, total weaponskill damage increases by about 50% going from 1000 to 2000 TP.

:3 I was hoping they would do this.

[Ophannus]

Drakesbane with AM3 is only doing maybe 5-6k unbuffed on too weak mobs. Stardiver is doing 7-11k? Only did a few on my friend's char. Sata exenterator did 11k on tw shit.

[Classikmage]

Hey, I haven't messed around much with magical WS's and Aeolian Edge seems really nice now. I was wondering exactly how they work? Aside from the obvious 40% DEX & 40% INT on the modifiers and MAB that affect them too, are they modified by fSTR or dINT at all? Or anything else I'm not thinking of?

[Glecent]

Had trouble testing Last Stand in Ronfaure. I thought it was 86% mod before alpha with 1 merit so it would be 86% after the update. It's still 73% as if alpha is still there.

85 Armageddon and Adaman Bullets DMG: 188. AGI: 88+10. Naked otherwise.

TP values are exact:

1000 TP: 1722 damage.
2000 TP: 2583 damage.
3000 TP: 3444 damage.

fTP at 1000 TP:

1722 = (188+28+71) * fTP * 3
1722/861 = fTP
fTP = 2

fTP at 2000 TP:

fTP = 2583/861
fTP = 3.

fTP at 3000 TP:

fTP = 3444/861
fTP = 4.

So,
fTP at 1000 TP = 2
fTP at 2000 TP = 3
fTP at 3000 TP = 4.

[dasva]

Hey, I haven't messed around much with magical WS's and Aeolian Edge seems really nice now. I was wondering exactly how they work? Aside from the obvious 40% DEX & 40% INT on the modifiers and MAB that affect them too, are they modified by fSTR or dINT at all? Or anything else I'm not thinking of?

That's complicated to answer. As they don't all work the same. They all have a ftp(lvl+2+wsc) portion in them. Then after that they tend to fall into 1 of 3 categories of possibly things added to that dmg along side the magic dmg stat.

Those being: No stat comparator at all (iirc this is the least common category an example would be cloudsplitter). They use fint which is sorta like fstr but uses dint values but has a stupid low cap unless they changed it (this is mostly older ws like red lotus blade ). And then lastly some sorta of (player stat- mob int)*multiplier term (example wildfires one would be (pAGI-mINT)×2 )

Then of course all the normal magical multiplier are multiplied in such as staff bonus, affinity, mab/mdb, day/weather, resist, and ws dmg

As far as Aeolian I'm not 100% certain but I think it was one of the ones that uses fint

[FenMelphina]

Yeah, It's really nice Byrthnoth. I just got out of salvage with some testing and rudra's puts up some huge numbers as you go from 100-200%. The spreadsheets Motenten has put ilvl 99 Mandau's mercy stroke at the same damage as mandau's rudra's now at 100% tp, but as you over tp rudras pulls ahead very quickly. The low delay tp gain actually makes Twash/Mandau or Mandau/Twash viable and probably stronger than iitzhikoh offhand now. Realistically I think Twashtar is probably better than Mandau now in long Nm fights where you can maintain aftermath, but Mandau is still going to beat Twash in salvage-esque places where you spend too much time running from mob to mob to maintain it.

EDIT: Collecting jishus radiance numbers now. Will have motenten post the breakdown when done

[Fwahm]

The potency thing is skillchains only. It doesn't apply to magical weaponskills.

[dasva]

EDIT: Collecting jishus radiance numbers now. Will have motenten post the breakdown when done

Checking to see if they ninja'd or accidentally change it's ftp?

The potency thing is skillchains only. It doesn't apply to magical weaponskills.

Bah yeah edited

[Glecent]

Double checked Jishnu's Radiance and Namas Arrow. No changes to fTP. Didn't expect any, just wanted to make sure.

^

[Motenten]

Correction on Rudra's: I forgot to account for fStr. Revised numbers are (probable) 6.25 fTP at 2000 and 8.5 at 3000.

[Motenten]

Finished all the H2H weaponskills where fTP values needed to be re-calculated. Values at 1000 > 2000 > 3000 TP:

Combo: 1.0 > 3.75 > 5.5
Raging Fists: 1.0 > 4.6 > 9.0
Howling Fist: 2.5 > 4.75 > 8.0
Dragon Kick: 2.0 > 3.6 > 6.5
Tornado Kick: 2.25 > 4.25 > 7.5

Looks like there's going to need to be lots of re-evaluations for various TP levels.

Pup and Mnk spreadsheets have been updated with these values.

[Obsidian]

No Shijin values?

[roach]

A short Ascetic's test all ws's between 100/105%tp

Abyssea RR/GH/SS No Cruor buffs.

392crit/522hit

75.09% Crit rate

Single hit ascetic didn't crit.

so 100% is below 25%


Bumped Crit up 7% Have gone through 50 or so Ascetics no non-critical yet
Edit:
Crit rate at a steady 82/83%

100 weaponskills all critical hits, looking more and more like it is probably 20% Crit @100%TP

[Motenten]

No Shijin values?

TP for Shijin just affects chance of the plague effect. Should otherwise be the same as before.

[Obsidian]

TP for Shijin just affects chance of the plague effect. Should otherwise be the same as before.

Oh, I misunderstood what "TP bonus increased when the bearer has 2,000 or more TP" meant, woops.

Kind of wonder if Torcleaver could be worth using now.

[CubsWoo]

I'm real bad at the whole formula thing so here's a small data dump of Pummel if someone better at it than me can figure out the changes to it:

Naked except for 119 Kenkonken.

STR 93
DEX 106
VIT 84

STR 32% + VIT 32% = 29.76 + 26.88 = 56 (55 if truncated before adding)

H2H skill 662
Weapon: 119 Kenkonken (+93DMG, +242 skill, +49 delay, -50 delay from MAV, 30% Pummel boost)
Base H2H damage 75.82 + 93 = 168
fSTR: 12(?)

1 hit: 57 TP

All WS at 1026 TP.

985
980
985

EDIT: with no gear on at all:

H2H skill 420
Base Damage 49
fSTR: 12(?)

1 hit: 57 TP

All WS at 1026 TP:

342
334
342

[Motenten]

If capped fStr, should be 18, so 242 total base damage.

Factoring out 30% damage boost, you have 754-758 dmg. Relative to 242 base damage, that's pDiff of 3.11 to 3.13 (though need a bit wider range to really be sure). Implication is that fTP got changed to 1.0, instead of 0.75.

[Martel]

So, some polearm WS samples. Also, I'm not about to try to math out any of this. So if someone else would kindly draw some conclusions from this.

some samples are really small. If they can't tell us anything, lemme know. I'll get some more at some point. But building TP on lvl 1 mobs is really annoying, and I have a headache. so done for now.

Ryunohige 119(245 dmg)
Sneak Attack
No Gorget/Belt

ATK 999

STR 199
DEX 166
VIT 175

Spoiler: show

Stardiver
1k TP
1056
1036
1005
1013
1023
1017
1057
1040
1013
1041
1036
1013

2k TP
1754
1685
1733
1723
1723

3k TP
2420
2422
2360
2356

Drakesbane
1k TP
1479
1484
1519

Sonic Thrust
1k TP
3933
3857
3917

2k TP
4756
4875
4962

3k TP
5983
6022
5768

Camlann's
1k TP
4554
4450
4451

[dasva]

So was doing some testing on trueflight and boy did it throw me for a loop. Seems like they decided to make the lvl/ilvl factor somewhat complicated. At least for TF it is 152 at 99, 201 at 119 <.<. Also works for wildfire

Anyways 100% seems to stay the same 3.5+100/256
200% seems to be 6+126/256
300% seems to be 9+172/256

Conclusion TF should beat WF by ~150ish tp and agi is a tad more important at higher tps