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Thread: Idris testing questions     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #81
    Old Odin
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    ok solod colkhab today on geo, and used various times geo 2 hour with acumen and malaise, bumping tier IV nukes from 4k~ to 10k~+ nukes and my blizzard 1 nukes from 1700 to 5k~ (mind you was useing seidr cotehardie), i dont even have idris so i cant imagine how powerfull this becomes with idris, first time used this i had a wtf moment.

    just put cor + geo into a pt wiht blm and watch them nuke tier 1 nukes for 10k dmg ¬.¬

  2. #82
    Nidhogg
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    Figured with the talk of high nuke numbers and 20k+ Flash Nova/Seraph Strikes, I'd get data to figure out the numbers for +MAB and -MDB.

    Geomancy: 421 Handbell: 407 w/Idris - Targets to the SW to avoid Cardinal Chant's +MAB or Magic Crits
    Wild Rabbits in East Ronfaure

    111 Int 0 MDmg 10 MAB (from JPs)

    Stone 1: 176

    w/Acumen: 280

    w/Malaise: 314

    w/Acumen and Malaise: 493

    Derped and realized I didn't cap Int. Fixed values.

    Pre-update (and pre +10 MAB) values for those that don't want to look back were:

    Stone I: 160
    w/Acumen: 248 - +55 MAB
    w/Malaise: 210 - -24 MDB

  3. #83
    Ridill
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    The solely acumen and malaise numbers come out nice and easy to +65 mab and -44 mdb... but then if that were the case both combined should've been 500 so either they do wonky things together or one of those has something else changed in it. Still if that -44 is right it's damn sexy. 1hr that and vidohunir it's face and assuming it had neutral mdb watch your nukes all of a sudden do 50x dmg.... Let's try it mal!

    New strat is idris 1hr Malaise + vidohunir to do a 99,999+ dmg helix and Kaustra then run around like chickens with their heads cut off til the mob falls over head lol

  4. #84
    Nidhogg
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    but then if that were the case both combined should've been 500 so either they do wonky things together or one of those has something else changed in it.
    I'll go double check in a bit, make sure something didn't equip wrong or anything, coulda buffed without all skill gear or something.

    Edit: Yeah, missed something somewhere, think I may of forgot to change cape to hit 111 Int, got multiple 500s when tested again.

  5. #85
    Old Odin
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    I just want to note that you can swap Idris AND dunna out and still maintain the same luopan on cast. 15 MP/tic refresh didnt go down to 5 when unequiping both, this applies to geo and indi-spells, so feel free to swap out ammo and staves in/out for nukes

  6. #86
    Old Odin
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    Vex (m.acc down) and attunement (m.eva up) seem to be pretty potent buffs/debuffs if you want to avoid stuff like charm and amnesia, how would one go about to test their potency? (if possible at all)

  7. #87
    Ridill
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    Fastest way would probably be to attack a mob or person with spikes on. First do it without geo stuff and document the hit rate (completely unresisted spike dmg). Depending on the value you get you might want to add more or take away some meva gear on the attacking player till you can get a baseline that is close to but not over the hit rate cap. Then in the same setup with said geo buffs/debuffs and get the hit rates from that. If they put you under the floor take away meva off of it. If you had to adjust to get off the floor I'd recommend either maintaining all the mage related stats since I don't think it was testing which if any effect it's macc or you could use something else like regular nukes instead where it is known

    Easy setup would be going to pvp and attack a player that can keep themselves alive with low delay low dmg stuff.

  8. #88
    Old Odin
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    Idris testing questions

    kinda confused about the base hit rate. i have a rdm mule at hands. would it work to use the mule with enspell hitting, but not use an ilvl weapon and then add on my main magic evasion ilvl gear until my mule hits floored resists and then remove all gear again, use geo buff or debuff and work up again from there until i get floored resists on mule?

    also what would i use best to parse results?

  9. #89
    Old Odin
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    indi-fend testing:

    normal nukes blizzard 174
    with indi-fend: 104
    +blaze of glory: 86
    geo-fade: 104


    stone3:
    normal: 284
    indi-fend: 170
    +blazy of glory: 142
    geo-fade (mab down): 171

    target had geo/rdm and +9 mdef in gear
    nuker is rdm/whm and nuker had +12 MAB and +99 magic damage

    anyone can calculate something?

    quick glance on geo-vex and indi-attuenment:
    nuker had ilvl 115 club (tamaxhi, +167 m.acc skill) 109+37 INT and 104 +59 MND 394 elemental magic skill, target had 117 magic evasion 106 +56 INT and 91+86 MND

    no buff nukes: no resists on nukes
    only indi-attunement: almost no resists on blizzard 1 nukes (not a noticable effect)
    only indi-vex: from eyeballing 50% resist rate, basicly almost every 2. nuke was half resist or 1/4 resisted, 40% resist rate ~
    vex + attunement togther: all spells resist 1/4 instead of 174 blizzard 1, it did only 44 constantly there were now 1/2 resist nukes like with indi-vex only

    vex seems to be the stronger factor I dont know by how much it lowers magic accuracy, but its enourmus when it drops your target from no resists on nukes to getting 40%(or more) resists on nukes (nukes doing 1/2 or 1/4 resists)

    Average item level of nuker 109
    average item level of target 113
    both were half naked ecxept for ilvl weapons, and me as geo haveing the ilvl + geomancy skill/handbell skill+ gear on

    my guess is that attunement is a fixed value, while the debuff vex is % based and has therefore a much bigger impact.

  10. #90
    Relic Horn
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    Indi-Fend seems to be +81 MDB.

  11. #91
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    kinda confused about the base hit rate. i have a rdm mule at hands. would it work to use the mule with enspell hitting, but not use an ilvl weapon and then add on my main magic evasion ilvl gear until my mule hits floored resists and then remove all gear again, use geo buff or debuff and work up again from there until i get floored resists on mule?

    also what would i use best to parse results?
    Since we don't really have a list of mobs meva in order to figure out how much those spells change meva or macc we'd need to figure out how much they change hit rates so need to get a hit rate before and after the spells. I recommended adjusting your gearing so your base is close to capped hit rates so that you'd have a lot of room when you lowered hit rates with those spells. The main reason is while you could just adjust your gear and math it out it's a bit harder to do since we haven't tested exactly how much base stats would effect things like that nor macc skill.

    Yes enspells should work as well.

    As far as parsing not completely sure what you are asking but you are looking for number hits and how many are full dmg. Any program that could differentiate between dmgs would work.

  12. #92
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    indi-fend testing:

    normal nukes blizzard 174
    with indi-fend: 104
    +blaze of glory: 86
    geo-fade: 104


    stone3:
    normal: 284
    indi-fend: 170
    +blazy of glory: 142
    geo-fade (mab down): 171

    target had geo/rdm and +9 mdef in gear
    nuker is rdm/whm and nuker had +12 MAB and +99 magic damage

    anyone can calculate something?
    Giving the people mab AND mdb to start with really complicates things the calculations a lot

    But yeah I'd agree that fend seems to be about +81 and fade is about -55ish but it's a lot of work getting the numbers to match up what with floor of the whole mab/mdb term and working backwards and it doesn't seem to work out so would really like some numbers with characters that don't have mab or mdb

  13. #93
    Ridill
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    So thanks to mal for helping me with some idris testing. First -mdb. Used all lvl 0 mobs

    Without malaise stone 1 was 1690, with 3018, with 1hr 3380, with 1hr and vidohunir still 3380. From this it looks like with Mal's pimped out setup normal malaise is -44 mdb. With a cap at -50. Unable to determine from this test if it's -50 cap for the spell or if just mdb has a min cap of 50 I suspect the latter though making this potentially much better on higher mdb enemies.


    Also did fend and fade testing in pvp target had no mdb nuker had no mab


    With nothing banish did 173

    with fade 86 so -50 mab

    0 with 1hr so -100 mab. Adding some mab did return dmg to non zeros.

    With Fend and 1hr 64 so +167-170 mdb
    Just fend 94 so +83-4 mdb

    So probably 84 without 1hr 168 with

  14. #94
    Old Odin
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    some interesting indi-vex/attunement founds from WKR:

    Achuka:
    Blistering Roar: Terror will be resisted pretty consistently
    searing serration: all stats down was never resisted (this will apply 100% of the time), cant be resisted
    Tyrannical blow: Plague effect will be resisted consistently
    still needs testing: lahar if weakness can be resisted, never used it
    defense down form normal hits, has a high chance of being resisted, but sometimes it comes through

    yumcax:
    Timber: Plague and Doom were never resisted, bind will be resisted (there is no way to avoid/resist doom)
    Canopierce: Rasp will be resisted, dmg too
    Potted Plant: all add effects of bind and slow can be resisted consistently
    Firefly Fandango: paralyze will be resisted consitently (almost never landed), Flash lands occasionaly but doesnt last for long time
    Root of the problem: all stats down was NEVER resisted (like on achuka)


    kumhau:
    normal hits add effect of def down or m.def down can be resisted mostly but will stick sometimes
    Glassy Nova: all stats down was NEVER resisted (same as yumcax and achuka)
    Permafrost requiem: Terror could not be resisted


    Interesting is that moves with all stats down, will never get resisted (dmg can but the stats down cant). Allways all stats down apply, never was one stat down left out. Doom was allway never avoidable, its 100% m.acc no matter the target. Terror seems to be dependend on move/mob, Blistering roar terror was resisted almost allways, while permafrost requiem terror was never resisted. Also: Dispelga moves on all WKR were never resisted, all dispel stayed all dispel.

  15. #95
    Nidhogg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    Doom was allway never avoidable, its 100% m.acc no matter the target.
    Was it still a 10 second doom? Against Balamor in Skirmish with just Vex it consistently over multiple runs changed his doom to a 30 second doom.

  16. #96
    Old Odin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malithar View Post
    Was it still a 10 second doom? Against Balamor in Skirmish with just Vex it consistently over multiple runs changed his doom to a 30 second doom.
    yeah was a 10 second doom allways

  17. #97
    Old Odin
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    Further Indi-Vex notes:
    Zombie from raptor in Morimar Delve will be resisted.

    Resistance on effects is highly dependend on what kind of m.acc the debuff have, some debuffs have a 100% m.acc rate that makes them impossible to resist like the Doom from Timber, but not the plague effect, this one can be resisted quiet frequent.
    It seems that SE has given for each mob move a particular m.acc on a case by case base depending on debuff:
    Example: a mob can have a move that inflicts para + plague+ blind. each of the 3 debuffs will have its own m.acc value. the m.acc of paralysis might be quiet low and thus will be resisted allmost all the time, while the blind m.acc of the move could be 100% and wont be resisted almost never. This varies from a mob by mob case.
    2 mobs that can inflict amnesia on 2 different ways, they can have quiet a different m.acc value on amnesia, one could be resisted easy, while the other will stick all the time, due to individual m.acc values on the mob move.

    Mob spell debuffs (slowga, slow etc etc.): seem to have a base "m.acc value" attached to the spell, that varies from debuff to debuff (some debuffs have a higher chance to stick then others). While the landing rate itself is further dependend on the mobs OWN m.acc value (like magic skill, m.acc traits/values they added on mob).

    This seems also to be the reason why SE cant give us a /checkparam value for m.acc. M.acc is individual for each spell you use, some have greater m.acc values others have less m.acc values added to them.

    Interesting note: Impact from mobs can be partially resisted like player impact and cuts down the timer of stats down like on the players version but the add effect of stats down is 100% and has caped m.acc values.

    This is all from just playing around a couple weeks with indi-vex, its impossible to see what kind of m.acc values the spells (only spells not moves) by itself haves, but from what I have seen the current m.acc "Tier" list is as followed:

    S Tier (will mostly stick through vex but not allways):
    Sleep, Sleepga, Sleep II, Sleepga II
    Slowga
    Addle

    A Tier
    Break, Breakga, Slow

    B Tier
    Blind, Paralyze, Gravity, Paralyga

    C Tier
    Silence, Bind, Bindga

  18. #98
    Relic Shield
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    Tested Indi-slow in Ballista using Dread Spikes (Base 3 minute recast):

    Indi-slow w/ normal bell (778 combined skill) = 3:23 recast (12.77%, possibly 131/1024)
    Indi-slow w/ Geo+5 (778 combined skill) = 3:28 (15.55%, possibly 161/1024)
    Indi-slow w/ Idris (778 combined skill) = 3:33 (18.33%, possibly 191/1024)
    Indi-slow w/ Dunna (837 combined skill) = 3:30 (16.66%, possibly 169/1024)
    Indi-slow w/ Idris (837 combined skill) = 3:35 (19.44%, possibly 199/1024)

    Each geomancy+ seems to add 6/1024. Edit: I'm not 100% sure how the game handles rounding or flooring for slow values so those /1024 values may not be exactly accurate, but I was just trying to discern a possible pattern for geomancy+.


    Also, not that anyone is likely to care, but poison with Idris goes up to 60hp/tic with 837 combined skill.

  19. #99
    Ridill
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    Did you check to see if they got full boost with sp?

  20. #100
    Relic Shield
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    No, but I can go back and do that when I get a chance.