Only Plow could Plow a thread based on car purchasing.
Only Plow could Plow a thread based on car purchasing.
you're right, only I could be 100% right and have every single person posting trying to claim I'm wrong
but hey, at least you learned that if you avoid every possible trim package or individual option that actually makes an Accord better than a Civic, you get a really similar car
A MKV VW Jetta TDI would be a great buy in the mid-15k area. If you're going less than that your options are significantly lessened. I had a 2004 Passat 2.0t that would average 36 MPG, so that's not bad for a gas engine and a car that's worth about $5-6k. But seriously. You could just finance a new TDI for like $20k (after down payment) and you'd have a solid car that will last you 10 years and get nearly 50 MPG without any silly hybrid or electric shenanigans. You can choose between the Jetta (which will have huge discounts in the next few months due to the refresh rolling out soon), the Passat (more upscale but more expensive, nearly $30k) and the MK7 Golf which just won Green Car of the Year.
I would suggest going to an automall and just test driving everything. That will help you narrow down your search. Then come back with some cars you are interested in and we can give advice.
As for the TDI. It is a great car in concept, but I am highly suspect of german design and VW quality. My best friend had one where the turbo went out in less than a year. That is just one event of course, but the build quality and the weird problems with VW's is a pretty common occurrence.
Wife has a 2011 TDI jetta sportwagen with 55k miles. Pretty solid car, tons of cargo space. The radios are shit quality (hers just failed, apparently a major problem with the 2010-2011s) and the DSG transmission is expensive to service, but otherwise we enjoy it.
Once you rip the 1/2 ton of plastic off the top of the engine it's a little easier lol. That being said, it's still 1,000,000x more convoluted and annoying than fixing a domestic or japanese vehicle. I fucking hate Volkswagens lol.
Edit: Interesting info on the Hybrid shit. I read a couple articles that tested the higher MPG gas cars vs. the hybrids. The more highway driving that was involved, the better the high MPG cars did against the hybrid vehicles. I assumed that info was still the case.
And while yes I'm a big car enthusiast, I could give two shits about production hybrid vehicles. They are boring, heavy, and have no performance aspect what so ever to any of them. Now electric race engines, electric supercharges, etc... yeah we can talk about those lol.
I humbly offer up the 9 Second Electric Miata oO:
http://jalopnik.com/electric-powered...-61-1454075536
My cousin had an old Jetta that was beaten and broken to shit on the outside, but it ran great. Windows were duct taped up, trunk wouldnt close, dinged and dented to hell.
Cost him $100 and he got 2 years out of it with over 250k miles.
dat Super GT Prius tho..
oh wait...
Spoiler: show
:kappa:
I'm sure they share some parts, but to claim that they're virtually identical is a bit of a stretch.
Pictures are taken from Honda's own site as you suggested:
Accord seats:
http://automobiles.honda.com/images/...rior-space.jpg
http://automobiles.honda.com/images/...rations1-a.jpg
Civic seats:
http://automobiles.honda.com/images/...ther-seats.jpg
http://automobiles.honda.com/images/...ck-seats-g.jpg
Similar? Maybe. Same? Definitely not.
Just off the top of my head, here are a few things where the Accord does better:
- Sound insulation (doors are an easy way to check)
- More power (and admittedly worse MPG)
- Ride comfort (better suspension and chassis)
Car Manufacturers are not going to compete against themselves when they don't have to-_-
Should be blatantly obvious the Civic and Accord are different cars on quite a few levels, the Accord being a "class" above the civic, the civic being a "class" above the Fit. Price wise the lower optioned higher class, is typically similarly priced to the higher optioned lower class vehicle.
Edit: Honda and Toyota are also VERY good at re-using and having interchangeable parts throughout their product line. Pretty much all auto manufacturers do this to a degree now, but Honda and Toyota have been doing it ALOT very well, for a very long time.
Right, and a six cylinder with lower MPG and a larger cabin doesn't suit the OP's request. It obviously could be accomplished with an Accord, but why would you bother suggesting one to someone obviously looking for economy?
The pictures posted above, and Plow's hilariously desperate response (they both have basically the same better trim options, too, sweet cheeks -- and you use base level for obvious reasons in a thread about saving money) demonstrates what I was saying all along: by modern standards, the Accord is basically a bigger Civic.
The reason this happened is due to the popularity of the Civic brand making its customers ask for more and better instead of inspiring them to change car models. It's the same thing that happened to the like-mentioned Corolla, for example. This is why virtually every economy car eventually evolves into a more expensive vehicle, and new economy cars are introduced. It's been this way for decades.
Keep on plowin' if you want to, though, Plow. OP realizes you're being ridiculous, and that's really all that matters.
EDIT: To address Quixon's comment: you're right, which is why there have been rumors of either doing away with or radically changing the Accord. It still competes in sales with like models by other makers, but is steadily dropping in sales performance. It was almost down a whole 10% lower in units moved, while the Civic, which is basically cannibalizing it, has already recovered from the dip in performance a couple of years ago and stabilized.
Uh, are we reading the same posts here? You claimed their seats were the same. The pictures clearly prove that they aren't. How does that demonstrate what you were saying all along? At best they same some trim parts and the navigation system. How does that make the Accord basically a bigger Civic?
I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but both the Accord and Civic have seen year-to-year growth the last two months. The idea that the Civic is stealing (statistically significant) sales from the Accord, and that Honda may be "doing away with or radically changing" the Accord is ridiculous.
You're right in that models generally get upgraded (and sometimes bigger) over the years, and that new, cheaper cars are introduced. But that happens to all models. Just as the Civic is getting better, so is the Accord.
wtf is the difference between the seats? If you want to argue seam lines I will cut you. Based on those images they would give the same comfort (I say based on images because we can't feel the padding on the internets and I have never sat in them).
And this is what I come back to....
As Ksandra said, besides a few seam lines, and a slight difference in width—due to the Accord having a larger cabin than the Civic—they're virtually identical. That's been the discussion the entire time: that the Civic is basically a smaller Accord. If you were to literally argue every minute difference, such as, say, the trim around the center console of the Accord extending to the seats while the Civic has no such trim, then you would be able to demonstrate minute differences between the cabin designs—which still goes along with their being virtually identical. I've never said literally identical, because that would be nonsense, but the similarities are incredibly close, both in the visuals provided above and the actual perks available on both cars.
How this all started was through Plow asserting that the Accord is a better vehicle providing a better experience. I fully understand why he thinks this way: he's the average car driver, and when John or Jane Doe hop from a four cylinder (Civic) to a six cylinder (Accord), they recognize a drastic difference, and feel that the latter is much more wonderful than the former. This is a completely understandable reaction, as the additional power does make for a more satisfying driving experience. That's why I also mentioned a more exciting drive (which he didn't understand), back before this all got out of hand—that, and some cabin space, is basically all that the Accord offers over the Civic. When it comes to bells and whistles, you can deck out both cars near-identically.
When someone is primarily concerned with MPG and getting to and from work, it offers nothing noteworthy over the Civic. If they were starting a family and wanted a more responsive vehicle, but not a van or an SUV, I'd recommend the Accord.
If we wanted to get into a deeper conversation about this, I would actually enjoy it, but it probably isn't best suited for this thread. However, the Accord has experienced both great PR (beating out sales of the Camry) and not so great PR (having overall unit sales down 7% compared to last year—the number that I rounded up while out and about, as I wasn't sure if it was 7% or 8%).Originally Posted by Anakron
Here's a page documenting the overall unit sales, month by month, over the past few years:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html
However, that also illustrates that you're absolutely right about sales picking up over the last few months. I wasn't aware of that, as I hadn't read the most recent figures. The beginning of this year was about 7% less impressive than the same time last year, but there was a peak in May, which isn't unusual for any car, since sales are big in spring/summer and winter. I'm wondering how its sales are going to pan out for the rest of the year.
Well, the seats do look similar, but you can say that for a lot of different vehicles. Maybe they provide the same level of comfort. Some may even find the Civic's more comfortable. And that's perfectly fine. But to claim that they're the same is just wrong.
I'm not asking you to look, because you probably don't really care, but for those that do, the parts for them are very different. Most of the Civic parts are from China, whereas the Accord ones are from the US.
Accord seats
Civic seats
I just didn't like the inaccurate information that the Accord is simply a bigger Civic. Even at their base trims, the Accord offers a lot more than the Civic (e.g. dual zone climate control and rear disc brakes).
EDIT:
Maybe a Civic will satisfy 100% of the needs of the OP, and probably even 80% of the needs of Accord buyers. For most people who treat their cars as an appliance, a Civic will absolutely take care of all their needs as well as an Accord will. But to say the Accord is simply a bigger Civic is just bad information. The difference may be irrelevant to the OP, but there's plenty of difference between the vehicles besides their dimensions. And if it is irrelevant, then I apologize for sidetracking the topic.
I did elaborate on this above, but I honestly am of the opposite standpoint than you: I believe it's dishonest to imply they're drastically different, and that the Accord offers "a lot more," especially in the context of this thread. If you've got kids or other family members in the back, you might be concerned with the dual zone climate control, but without that, it's worthless, and yet you're paying more for it. (I'd personally consider it worthless regardless, but I recognize that my opinion here is purely subjective.) Why would you when you don't need it?
I wouldn't say it's "bad information." You can demonstrably compare what the two cars offer, both at base trim and higher trim levels, and the Accord is better for people concerned with a more responsive driving experience, and passenger comfort—but that's it. Everything else that you can get in an Accord, you can get in a Civic, with very few exceptions (obviously excluding the engine). It's not the significantly different dreamboat Plow was describing, and that was the problem.
For getting from point A to point B in a reliable vehicle, it's not only more sensible to get a Civic, but if you want to deck it out, it can also have an experience near-identical to what the Accord provides. It's obviously never going to have a six cylinder engine, but that's the only huge difference between the two.
However, we are just getting into an "agree to disagree" at this point, and I have no reason to argue extensively with someone who's being sensible, as you are. I just didn't want to deal with Plow being a belligerent ass, but then, I suppose that would be expecting Plow to not be Plow.
Fair enough. I do have to admit that when people say "ABC is just a bigger/dressed up XYZ," I get annoyed, because I know they're not (and I personally care about the differences). For example, the new Accord also offers LED headlights, and LEDs or HIDs were a must have for me, so that sticks out to me. But I suppose it's a very minor thing for some people.
But as you said, to most people, and for most of the things they care about, that is often true and a more accurate statement (that they're more similar than they are different).
holy shit shut the fuck up about some seats this nigga is never gonna sit in