AoE abilities - number of possible targets

[Sechs]

This is probably answered somewhere in the wiki but I wouldn't know where to search.
It's also probably something I should know already >.>'''

How is the number of max targets hit by an AoE action decided in FFXI? Does it depend on magical vs physical? Is it a field set individually for each action by SE?

For instance, Spinning Attack cannot hit more than 8 targets appearently, whereas with Aeolian Edge I always hit 12 (supposing there are enough targets around of course).
That "8" in particular seemed strange to me because it reminded me the max number of attacks that can be performed within the same attack turn (multihit, WS etc).
I wonder if it's because of that that physical WSs cannot hit more than 8 targets.
This would also imply that if my AoE physical WS performs a double attack on a target, then the number of total targets hit should go down from 8 to 7.


So, well, this doesn't really matter much tbh as it won't really change my choices or my gameplay, I'm just very curious about how it works.

[JSHidaka]

Who said spinning attack can't hit more than 8? I do AR II salvage as monk, and in the rampart floor, I make all the rampart to use reinforcement then train all the gears, and they all die with 3 or 4 spinning attack(like some dies at the 3rd and the rest in the 4th)

Chat log caps at 8, same issue that fell cleaver party had, that you could only get exp of 8mobs at same time.

Another way to refute the topic is, go to aby, masspull anything, brew and use aeolian edge.... all of them will die...

[Sechs]

Who said spinning attack can't hit more than 8?

Well, when I do Salvage II, it always hits up to 8 targets. Or at least that's what I get in the chat box.
Tbh it's something I just noticed the other day, I never bothered to "count" it.
At first I assumed it was some sort of Chat Box limit, but then I noticed that when I use Aeolian Edge on DNC in Einherjar, the Chat Box displays 12 lines, not 8, so I kinda ruled the chat limit out.
Was that a mistake on my side?

I never Fell Cleaved in Abyssea. I did some Cataclysm, quite a lot, but honestly never bothered to "count" how many targets were being displayed as hit in the chatbox lol

[Hitou]

Spinning Attack seems to have a smaller AoE radius than other WS at least from what I've noticed, so possible you only hit 8 mobs rather than that being a cap. I've seen it hit 2 out of 5ish mobs due to bad positioning. But yeah, people used to fell cleave etc way more than 12 mobs at once for gold boxes or exp back in the day.

[Sechs]

Range increases with tp afaik. Know last floor of ssr2? I link EVERYTHING and then position in a corner. Unlikely that in this scenario it's a range issue with 3000tp. Kinda the same with aeolian in ein, I was only getting 12 lines.
I mean I don't get why this different behaviour between aeolian and spinning. Is it really just range? (And yes, spinning's is really small)

[Byrthnoth]

There is a display limit based on the size of the action packet, but there is also a limit to the actual number of mobs that can be hit. It is unclear to me that this varies by attack type at all.

[JSHidaka]

Moving to a spell attack... In aby while farming gold chest for the old guku ki... I used to pull all the detectors and bombs , and 1 shot them with cw... So if there is a cap, at least for that spell is more than 40...

Now I remember I did the same as war using cataclysm, pulling the birds then the frogs, with good atmas you could kill them with 2 ws...

Both scenario with more than 40 mobs per pull

[Sechs]

But this still doesn't explain the difference, at least log wise, between spinning and aeolian and likely more ws too. Maybe other physical display max 8 and other magical display max 12 add well? That would be still strange but it would make a bit more sense I guess.

JSH you're right about abyssea, I remember that too. I dunno how many targets there were in my pulls, but definitely more than 12.


Another thing about physical aoe ws and multistrike.
For h2h and doublewielded weapons, does the offhand hit apply to all the targets hit by the ws? Can multistrike proc independently on each target? I assume so, but has it ever been tested?

[JSHidaka]

The 12 might be/have chat log duplication?... Or battlemod is able to catch more than 8...?

Coz CW cap is 8 same as FC and cataclysm..

[Sechs]

Battlemod was turned off, I'll check again today in case I was drunk as usual and miscounted Aeolian's hits.

[Fwahm]

Circle Blade can definitely hit 20+ mobs in a single go.

[Kyte]

For h2h and doublewielded weapons, does the offhand hit apply to all the targets hit by the ws? Can multistrike proc independently on each target? I assume so, but has it ever been tested?

The procing is independent on each target and the offhand does get applied to all.

[kjLotus]

There is a display limit based on the size of the action packet, but there is also a limit to the actual number of mobs that can be hit. It is unclear to me that this varies by attack type at all.

the limit is WAY higher than the action packet limit (if there even is one), i've trained half of abyssea and hit all of them with a single manifestation+kaustra

[JSHidaka]

hmm this is interesting.. the "chat log cap" is 15 now?...http://oi58.tinypic.com/racmdt.jpg
that SS was w/o Battlemod.. w/ it was the same 15, probably it was ninja updated sometime... since I really recall cap was 8.... Now I wonder if can get the exp of 15 mobs if they die at same time.

edit: and w/ battlemod

http://i61.tinypic.com/4uxy88.png

[Byrthnoth]

the limit is WAY higher than the action packet limit (if there even is one), i've trained half of abyssea and hit all of them with a single manifestation+kaustra

I thought that Manifestation generated a separate action packet for every target instead of combining them in a single one with multiple targets.

So 15 is the limit...
150 bit header
160 bits for the first target (potential skillchain)
123 bits for targets 2-15
= exactly 254 bytes

Staying below 256 bytes . . . . it's probably action packet size limited. I bet the game just doesn't generate action packets larger than 256 bytes. It could theoretically go up to 512, but I'm not sure that it does.

[Fwahm]

I've hit every single triple gear on Arrapago Remnants II with a single circle blade before (so 28 mobs). Now, I didn't check whether the log recorded them all, but they had all definitely taken damage from it.

[kjLotus]

I thought that Manifestation generated a separate action packet for every target instead of combining them in a single one with multiple targets.

no, i did that (and capped it) for the exact purpose of answering the question in this thread: it had one action packet with 15 targets (if it really made one for each target, you'd see the kaustra animation on every single target, which would be quite the visual clusterfuck)

you will get a packet showing 15 were hit, but all of them will take damage

[Sechs]

JSH which WS did you use for those screenshots?
If the display limit is 15 I really don't get why I was getting 12 for Aeolian and 8 for Spinning Attack.
Now for Aeolian it was just 3 or 4 attempts in Einherjar, I find it strange for it to be caused by the Range since mobs were really packed, but given the low amount of WS used it could be the cause.
But for Spinning Attack? I used it surely over 20 times in those runs the other day, I seriously had all of the SSR2's 4th floor packed in a corner and Spinning was always displaying 8 targets being hit no matter my TP (range is indeed very small at 1000 but should be higher at 3000...)

[Byrthnoth]

no, i did that (and capped it) for the exact purpose of answering the question in this thread: it had one action packet with 15 targets (if it really made one for each target, you'd see the kaustra animation on every single target, which would be quite the visual clusterfuck)

you will get a packet showing 15 were hit, but all of them will take damage

Ah, I thought you were talking about in the log when you said that all of them were hit. Good to know, then!

I seem to remember that in Korroloka astral burns there were times when the first round of BPs would go off and some of the monsters would still have full HP bars. That's what makes me suspect there is some upper limit in the number of things that can be hit by any single action. It could have just been pathing craziness, though.

[JSHidaka]

JSH which WS did you use for those screenshots?
If the display limit is 15 I really don't get why I was getting 12 for Aeolian and 8 for Spinning Attack.
Now for Aeolian it was just 3 or 4 attempts in Einherjar, I find it strange for it to be caused by the Range since mobs were really packed, but given the low amount of WS used it could be the cause.
But for Spinning Attack? I used it surely over 20 times in those runs the other day, I seriously had all of the SSR2's 4th floor packed in a corner and Spinning was always displaying 8 targets being hit no matter my TP (range is indeed very small at 1000 but should be higher at 3000...)

Oh my bad.. Was spinning attack, first was at 3000 TP, second 1000sh, I had 32 mobs on me, the 28 triple gears and the 4 single gear... And have another SS at 2k TP, and the same 15 targets. I get into the corner next to the door to the next floor, if that helps, in some walls I can't get them to pack in front of me