Thread: Salvage Bans v 2.0    

You can't say it wont happen because in one specific instance it didnt happen.

At the end of the day its SE's call, and there have been plenty of examples in the past of ppl getting banned for being in the same party as a person doing shit.

Salvage bans V1 are a testament to this, lots of people got banned just because they happened to be along for the ride and had no idea what was going on. It happened before, no reason it cant happen again.

Originally Posted by urat

You can't say it wont happen because in one specific instance it didnt happen.

At the end of the day its SE's call, and there have been plenty of examples in the past of ppl getting banned for being in the same party as a person doing shit.

Salvage bans V1 are a testament to this, lots of people got banned just because they happened to be along for the ride and had no idea what was going on. It happened before, no reason it cant happen again.

With the Salvage v1 bans, I'd argue it's fair easier for an "innocent" party to realise something dodgy is going on, they split a single party into 3 party alliance and got 3x the drops, it's not the most subtle thing in the world.

Salvage v1 ban were more the exception than the rule. They were special in all kind of ways.
I'm not saying we can 100% rule out "ban by association", I'm just saying that I consider it extremely unlikely, if the conditions are only the ones your friend reported to you.
If there are other things he didn't tell you (or that he's not aware of) it's another story, but if it's just that...
Well, talking about probabilities, I'd be more leaning towards someone not wanting to admit he's done "things".

I've seen some people living in such a huge self denial on these matters that nothing would surprise me anymore.

They already banned by association with Neo-Nyzul. It happens. Soro onry.

Neo-nyzul bans were a lot different thou, those seemed to be be based only on reports + GM investigation, hence why they seldom actually happened. The new ban waves on the other hand clearly have some automated element.

I wonder if all of these home points all over the place, and various warp points like in Escha are also used now to track players movements from point A to point B.

Regardless, I really don't understand SEs mindset. The game is still a decent cash income for them, but they themselves have said while it will continue to operate, it will, after November, do so minimally staffed (maybe that's why all these apparent auto-bans are occurring, SE is testing out their systems for when they drop to next to no support). They perma-ban people by association through an apparent auto-system, but when you call a GM, they do nothing. They temp-banned most of the salvage dupe abusers, and let the keep all the Gil they amassed. They are giving us all of these cool UI upgrades, like lockstyle, gearsets, and now being able to see buffs and debuffs on party members, when the game is in its twilight era.

/endsoapbox

Originally Posted by Snprphnx

I wonder if all of these home points all over the place, and various warp points like in Escha are also used now to track players movements from point A to point B.

Regardless, I really don't understand SEs mindset. The game is still a decent cash income for them, but they themselves have said while it will continue to operate, it will, after November, do so minimally staffed (maybe that's why all these apparent auto-bans are occurring, SE is testing out their systems for when they drop to next to no support). They perma-ban people by association through an apparent auto-system, but when you call a GM, they do nothing. They temp-banned most of the salvage dupe abusers, and let the keep all the Gil they amassed. They are giving us all of these cool UI upgrades, like lockstyle, gearsets, and now being able to see buffs and debuffs on party members, when the game is in its twilight era.

/endsoapbox

You know it's possible that this is as simple as the gm team not giving a fuck and wanting less work.

The small crappy gm team are forced to cover both games, probably for no extra money. These are low pay jobs and the GM teams really have nobody overseeing them and they can do anything and you have almost no way you counter it. If they ban you for "speed hacking", there is no way you can argue it. You're just fucking done, they won't even talk to you anymore after the fact.

If I was them, I would ban people from the old game too. Less work, almost no chance of getting called on a bad descision and most of the players will just say the player deserved it anyway.

Originally Posted by Cyleena

I do not think they are banning people who are in same pt as the one that cheats. I know of someone that got banned recently for clipper usage (first time offense but got perm anyway), and the other members in pt (was a pt of 6 including person who got banned) who were not in same zone but waiting on that person in another zone did not get banned for it as well, so just being in the same pt did not cause all to get banned. (they were not using clipper, just the person in the pt that got banned).

if you know someone in your pt is using that stuff I would get out of that pt fast just in case lol. I would not risk it.

In addition, several years ago one of my old ls leaders (not me) got pulled out of our event for using clipper. Someone saw him in sea and reported him. He got a temp ban but no one else in the alli got in trouble for it as well. Someone even mentioned in pt that the leader was going awfully fast, and the GM used that pt chat as evidence against the guy who was using clipper.

Originally Posted by urat

You can't say it wont happen because in one specific instance it didnt happen.

At the end of the day its SE's call, and there have been plenty of examples in the past of ppl getting banned for being in the same party as a person doing shit.

Salvage bans V1 are a testament to this, lots of people got banned just because they happened to be along for the ride and had no idea what was going on. It happened before, no reason it cant happen again.

I named two instance's it did not happen not just one. Also, I said in my reply also that if I was in same pt and saw someone was doing it I would not stay in that pt, and risk it. Of course it is up to SE in the end, and the way the automatic ban is working atm it definitely is not safe to assume anything as has been shown, and I never said you would be safe to assume being in same pt is ok.

Originally Posted by Cyleena

I do not think they are banning people who are in same pt as the one that cheats. I know of someone that got banned recently for clipper usage (first time offense but got perm anyway), and the other members in pt (was a pt of 6 including person who got banned) who were not in same zone but waiting on that person in another zone did not get banned for it as well, so just being in the same pt did not cause all to get banned. (they were not using clipper, just the person in the pt that got banned).

Saying that, anyone that uses clipper, JA wait, GM Mode, bots, or any of the sort is crazy atm because they are handing out perm bans for first time offenders and not temp bans. I know of more then one person that got perm with no warning (no other offenses), and if you know someone in your pt is using that stuff I would get out of that pt fast just in case lol. I would not risk it.

In addition, several years ago one of my old ls leaders (not me) got pulled out of our event for using clipper. Someone saw him in sea and reported him. He got a temp ban but no one else in the alli got in trouble for it as well. Someone even mentioned in pt that the leader was going awfully fast, and the GM used that pt chat as evidence against the guy who was using clipper.

Originally Posted by Damane

guilt by association happens, have witnessed it allready 3 times. if you run an instanced firld with LINKSHELL members in same PT and someone is stupid about clipper movement speed etc. it can get the whole PT banned. however i only witnessed this when peeps were from the same shell not when running with pt and mixed shells (but then noone would cheat anyway). Just sayin. Have never witnessed this in the open field tough with movement/teleport hacks. Single banns yes there guilt by association nope.

hence the reason why i feel very uncomfortable when someone uses this stuff around me in the same PT

I know guilt by association has happened in the past but it does not happen every time, and I do not like being in a pt if someone is using that stuff either. I do not like risking my acct cause of some stupid people. The other day when a friend got banned who was in the same pt as others the pt had no clue he was doing stupid stuff cause he did not tell them, and he was in another zone, so the pt did not see it. Very next morning he woke up to perm ban while the rest of pt was fine. At the end of the day it is SE decision but with the way the bans seem automatic they are very random, and inconsistent and unless you want to end your ffxi days with a perm everyone is best leaving that stuff alone.

Originally Posted by Damane

guilt by association happens, have witnessed it allready 3 times. if you run an instanced firld with LINKSHELL members in same PT and someone is stupid about clipper movement speed etc. it can get the whole PT banned. however i only witnessed this when peeps were from the same shell not when running with pt and mixed shells (but then noone would cheat anyway). Just sayin. Have never witnessed this in the open field tough with movement/teleport hacks. Single banns yes there guilt by association nope.

hence the reason why i feel very uncomfortable when someone uses this stuff around me in the same PT

yeah i avoid this risk by playing solo now on. This is clearly the message SE is sending - MMOSRPG (s = solo)

other option i feel is just to cancel until/if this insanity changes

Originally Posted by Snprphnx

I wonder if all of these home points all over the place, and various warp points like in Escha are also used now to track players movements from point A to point B.

Regardless, I really don't understand SEs mindset. The game is still a decent cash income for them, but they themselves have said while it will continue to operate, it will, after November, do so minimally staffed (maybe that's why all these apparent auto-bans are occurring, SE is testing out their systems for when they drop to next to no support). They perma-ban people by association through an apparent auto-system, but when you call a GM, they do nothing. They temp-banned most of the salvage dupe abusers, and let the keep all the Gil they amassed. They are giving us all of these cool UI upgrades, like lockstyle, gearsets, and now being able to see buffs and debuffs on party members, when the game is in its twilight era.

/endsoapbox

yeah doesn't everyone love 10 years of work and loyalty to end up as a guinea pig. Stay unsubbed while SE works out the 'kinks' then resub in april and hopefully you can flee around again, is this what SE has in mind?

They really just hate customers it seems

Originally Posted by rate

You know it's possible that this is as simple as the gm team not giving a fuck and wanting less work.

The small crappy gm team are forced to cover both games, probably for no extra money. These are low pay jobs and the GM teams really have nobody overseeing them and they can do anything and you have almost no way you counter it. If they ban you for "speed hacking", there is no way you can argue it. You're just fucking done, they won't even talk to you anymore after the fact.

If I was them, I would ban people from the old game too. Less work, almost no chance of getting called on a bad descision and most of the players will just say the player deserved it anyway.

SE is really hopelessly incompetent to sit there while rogue GMs ban 1/3 of their customers then. But we all know it's auto jailer/STF and GMs don't monitor any more

GMs arent in charge of bans for 3rd party tools period, theyve said this many many times.

GMs handle mordion gaol stuff. Spam, character stuck on something and cant move, abusive players, shit like that.

IE player is following you around harassing you? GM can help with that.

Player is botting or flee hacking? Report them to the STF.

My friend who got permabanned on first offense received access to his character once again yesterday, after little over a month of very frequent bugging at SE's offices.