FFXIV Random Complaint Thread II: DPS can't count to potato

[octopus]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...d_savage_will/

This might be the final kill for me...

[Taint]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...d_savage_will/

This might be the final kill for me...

The last breath of hope is that "Normal" becomes Primal lvl fights.

[Alistaire]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...d_savage_will/

This might be the final kill for me...

This honestly says nothing to the difficulty of either, just that they're not doing 3 tiers.

[octopus]

What I'm concerned from this article is that they're scared of putting any kind of real incentives to get people to do savage mode.

[Shenrien]

Savage mode is going to transition from a difficult platue of end game that you reach by troubleshooting your errors and overcoming mechanics and dps checks to just being another thing people do that is just slightly harder than an ex primal because that's about the limit that people who use just a tiny bit of their head meat to push buttons can pull off.

Savage mode will become baited with mounts, minions, and titles to entice people to go do it, the gear alone isn't going to be enough if there is something that they can go idly sit in town with that can be displayed on any class, job, or whatever then they will go for it. Look at how this community fawns over minions and mounts so much so that they don't care if its a 5, 10, 15% drop rate to achieve it or shelling out 15, 25, $30 for it. One person sees it, then they see another person with it, and they start to get the idea they should go get it, that's how primal mounts became so popular and how people started to and chase after fights that at their release were at a moderate level of difficulty for some players.

New mount added to Midas once its unlocked, have a 5% chance to obtain a gear(5), spring(6), cog(7), and lubricant(8) used to exchange for a quickthink allthoughts goblin walker. Don't worry, there will be echo to hold your hand through those scary chakrams and robot laser beams of death.

[Destinye]

What I'm concerned from this article is that they're scared of putting any kind of real incentives to get people to do savage mode.

Because the people on OF bitch that they're not able to get it because they refuse to get better at the game.

[Hafa Nana]

Doesn't this phrase imply that Palace of the Dead floors 101 - 200 will be even solo beatable?

"Going from the 100th floor to the 200th will be very challenging, especially if you’re going in solo."
Source: Nova Crystallis Gamescom 2016 video interview with Yoshi-P. The video.

What kind of challenge could it be for a party then, just the amount of grind? After all in the Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XXXI they've said, that "Floors 100-200 will be grind-focused elements.".

At this point I will be surprised if the grid won't be related to the next relic step.
And thus Yoshi-P's dream of both new and veteran players doing the same content will come true. =) The former will be doing it for leveling up and the latter for the relic. Relic grind can't be too difficult, because it's for the masses, right?

[Almalexia]

Solo Deep Dungeon is the real endgame.

[Corrderio]

So it seems like they're changing nothing (yet again) with the game in 4.0 other than dumbing down combos?

[Hafa Nana]

So it seems like they're changing nothing (yet again) with the game in 4.0 other than dumbing down combos?

As far as changing jobs rotations is concerned, I think that the main reason why they are going to give us simpler rotations in 4.0 is to make the production easier. I.e. split the introduction of the full rotations into two parts like they did in 2.0 – 3.0, when they first introduced an incomplete version of rotations in 2.0 and then built them up to full rotations in 3.0. I’m pretty sure that back in the day when 2.0 was released, SE has already had full jobs rotations at least planned or even tested in their internal builds of the game. This is how they produce fights: build the hardest version of a fight first and then make easier versions based on it (they’ve mentioned it a few times). I think that the same production routine makes sense for rotations, if they choose to introduce them in two parts. So I think that they will release full rotations in 5.0 (that are going to be about as complex as rotations in 3.0) and in 4.0 we are going to have cut down versions of 5.0 rotations (that are going to be about as complex as rotations in 2.0). Why are they bothering making new rotations at all? Well, if they just wanted to make some adjustments to the rotations’ difficulty, they could simply modify current rotations a little bit, where it is necessary. Introducing completely new skills and seriously modifying rotations in an expansion, however, makes sense from the point of giving players a new sense of RPG-like progression: learning new skills, figuring out and learning optimal rotations, jobs synergy in a party, communicating about all of it – it makes the game alive and keeps players busy.

As to the influence of simplified jobs rotation on raids difficulty, the last fight of all mainstream hardcore raids could always be beaten only by few percent of the playerbase (at best) until it was nerfed (note that The Final Coil of Bahamut has been nerfed two months before the end of 2.x series). This has happened both when jobs rotations used to be simpler (in 2.x) and when they’ve become more complex (in 3.x). I think that it can’t be a mere coincidence, and this level of raids difficulty is set up intentionally in order to make sure that practically all players always have a goal (a fight to beat) until SE releases new content. And the few percent that can actually beat it before nerf are there just to show to the rest of the players that this is theoretically possible (and give some hope).

As to the other three fights in a raid tier, SE tries to scale their difficulty up gradually (starting from approximately an Extreme Primal difficulty) to give players a sense of progression.

As regards some deviations in difficulty between different mainstream hardcore raids, I think that as a rule the last raid in an expansion is always made the easiest, while the first one – the hardest (T5 of Coil had also remained unbeatable for quite a while until it was nerfed/AKA fixed).

Making the last raid the easiest is one of the measures they take in order to allow players to clear it before the release of the next expansion. It makes sense to let both hardcore and midcore players finish the raid before everybody’s attention switches to the next expansion content and easier (unsynced) mode becomes available.

As to the first raid in an expansion, not only there is no special reason to rush nerfing it, but in addition to adding echo players will also overgear it with the release of the next content cycle. And if there are three content cycles in an expansion (like in A Realm Reborn and in Heavensward), then players overgear the first raid twice. So setting the difficulty of the first raid higher allows it to remain challenging content longer. And they want hardcore raids to remain reasonably challenging, because challenge provides longevity (time it takes players to clear it), which means player retention and sub fees.

As regards the place of the next Deep Dungeon in patch 4.0, I think that it can replace 5 unique leveling dungeons that we’ve had in Heavensward. After all, in Game Watch June interview Yoshi-P has said that the content for each save [10 floors] is roughly the same as an instanced dungeon. So if they release 50 floors... Where could they move all the production, that previously went into the 5 unique leveling dungeons in this case? They could, for example, use it to make 3 expert dungeons in each patch again. Bringing in more casual endgame content would make sense if they removed the Normal version of mainstream hardcore raids. But since the Normal version remains, I don’t know.

[Damane]

4.0 needs more then the generic stuff they have been putting out. new rotations but same "endgame" formula wont cut it. Heavensward allready droped the ball there. They need to replace fates too with something else.
Also the introduction of pure supportclasses is overdue. Adding more healer tank or DPS class isnt going to help much. But then again why revamp something that apearantly works for them


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[Edelweiss]

They're going to keep FATEs until the whole thing fucking dies, but maybe FATEs could be worked into a Campaign-like system if we're going to Ala Mhigo. Ala Mhigan Resistance Ops vs. the Garleans. I guess it'd add weight to things, especially if we get some kind of regional control deal going.

Their decision on retaining Normal babby-mode endgame is probably a bad idea, but it's probably more concerning that we're likely not going to see anything beyond the usual.

[Ratatapa]

You are all naive thinking they would remove normal mode

They get their money from Casuals and Cash shop.

Remove normal mode and you kill alot of the casuals and their revenue

[Alistaire]

You are all naive thinking they would remove normal mode

They get their money from Casuals and Cash shop.

Remove normal mode and you kill alot of the casuals and their revenue

I don't think that's what people were thinking at all. People have been asking for 3 tiers. Go back to your FF Clicker Heroes.

[octopus]

Yeah, and casuals like grinding alex normal for bolts and springs?

I don't think alex normal is necessary. 2nd coil model was great giving midcores incentive to play (for the story), and giving hardcores Savage for the challenge. Casual people can get carried by their midcore friends when nerfs + echo hit in the catchup patch.

[Alistaire]

Yeah, and casuals like grinding alex normal for bolts and springs?

I don't think alex normal is necessary. 2nd coil model was great giving midcores incentive to play (for the story), and giving hardcores Savage for the challenge. Casual people can get carried by their midcore friends when nerfs + echo hit in the catchup patch.

People asked for (content that ended up being called) normal, but on the other hand they didn't ask for "the real raid" to get harder. That's the real problem here, and they've given an indication savage will be easier in the future, but who knows what that means to them, because they said the same thing about midas, and that ended up an earlier cockblock to most groups compared to gordias.

[Corrderio]

-snip-

I suppose that makes sense, but my 2 biggest grips with the game still seem like they'll be the standard: The complete feeling of isolation due to DF/no cross-server comms and no real guild content.

[Edelweiss]

People asked for (content that ended up being called) normal, but on the other hand they didn't ask for "the real raid" to get harder. That's the real problem here, and they've given an indication savage will be easier in the future, but who knows what that means to them, because they said the same thing about midas, and that ended up an earlier cockblock to most groups compared to gordias.

In a way, I hope Savage becomes easier if only to make it less frustrating to try and find a 2nd tank/a healer when and if we need to fill that role. There's been enough people who might be servicable in an easier endgame, that we've had to pass on because of being slow at learning/being unable to do mechanics and their job at the same time. We've lost almost two months in the Midas series (months when the shit was relevant no less before and after 3.3) due to being unable to find someone who can cut it in A8S.

[Taint]

In a way, I hope Savage becomes easier if only to make it less frustrating to try and find a 2nd tank/a healer when and if we need to fill that role. There's been enough people who might be servicable in an easier endgame, that we've had to pass on because of being slow at learning/being unable to do mechanics and their job at the same time. We've lost almost two months in the Midas series (months when the shit was relevant no less before and after 3.3) due to being unable to find someone who can cut it in A8S.

That's exactly my/our Midas experience. We cleared A6 before the nerfs, A7 a couple weeks after. Then have spent the last 3+ months juggling members.

We moved to Gilgamesh which has helped but we are still 7/8, trying to get a solid group ready for 3.4.

[Destinye]

Only complaint I have about phasing out Eso tomes is the fact that gear is probably going to end up under a hunt currency or shoved into loot pools of some current dungeons or ala Mythic gear being exchanged for "antique" or whatever currency like you got from your Satasha HM spam days.