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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zetanio View Post
    I just don't know why it matters at all.
    That's fine, not knowing why is perfectly fine. Realize though, that just because something does not matter to you, does not mean it should/does not matter to someone else. There is no net loss to you and there is a definite gain on the other person's end.

    We aren’t looking at a Widowmaker pose here, this isn’t a character who is in part defined by flaunting her sexuality. This pose says to the player base, oh we’ve got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to sex symbols to help boost our investment game.
    It sounds valid as far as I'm concerned. It's not even about being puritanical.

  2. #222
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    Just seems like dude wrote a sob story and the devs got a little itchy. I don't really take issue with that. The devs' explanation is just worded really poorly.

  3. #223
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    Is "sob story" what we call criticism (legitimate or not) now?

  4. #224
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    "I have a young daughter that everyday when I wake up wants to watch the recall trailer again. She knows who tracer is, and as she grows up, she can grow up alongside these characters."

    This is what I'm referring to when I say sob story. The rest of the criticism is fine.

  5. #225
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    So, talking about depictions of a character and the relationship said person and their offspring have with it, in the context of criticism is a sob story? That does not make sense to me. It might make sense to you, and that's good for you, but it makes no sense to me.

  6. #226
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    Oh you.

  7. #227
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    It makes sense to me. Of course people immediately called out the OP as the game is rated Teen so why is he letting his 8 yo watch a video for a game with that rating. Never mind the fact the character is a time shifting murder bot, or the fact that they have a tracer statue at Blizzard that shows off her booty.

    As is, most people are bitching because if Blizzard is going to cave that quickly on this, what else will they cave in on the second someone gets upset and doesn't like something. They also patched out the masturbation joke on the Route 66 map.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melena View Post
    It makes sense to me. Of course people immediately called out the OP as the game is rated Teen so why is he letting his 8 yo watch a video for a game with that rating. Never mind the fact the character is a time shifting murder bot, or the fact that they have a tracer statue at Blizzard that shows off her booty.

    As is, most people are bitching because if Blizzard is going to cave that quickly on this, what else will they cave in on the second someone gets upset and doesn't like something. They also patched out the masturbation joke on the Route 66 map.
    I think a large part of parenting is deciding what is acceptable for your child based on their mental capacity. Cartoony characters behaving violently but not actually dying because they respawn can be fine depending on who you ask. Sexuality (when it is perceived as not reductive) can also be fine depending on you ask. I think it is disingenuous to make that comparison/argument as a counter. You're not refuting the argument at all when you do that shit. It's two logical fallacies for the price of one.

    Worrying that blizzard will cave to an unending pile of shit because they agreed with someone that they had strayed from their vision is also some "slippery slope" type of argument.

  9. #229
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    Well why stop at the Tracer pose. Mercy is a healer, a beacon of light, they should remove the devil and imp skins for her as it doesn't fit her character.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melena View Post
    Well why stop at the Tracer pose. Mercy is a healer, a beacon of light, they should remove the devil and imp skins for her as it doesn't fit her character.
    Quote Originally Posted by Demosthenes View Post
    We aren’t looking at a Widowmaker pose here, this isn’t a character who is in part defined by flaunting her sexuality. This pose says to the player base, oh we’ve got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to sex symbols to help boost our investment game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Demosthenes View Post
    Worrying that blizzard will cave to an unending pile of shit because they agreed with someone that they had strayed from their vision is also some "slippery slope" type of argument.
    Also, skins and poses that might depict of sexuality in this situation are not the same thing.

  11. #231
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    I'm fine with getting rid of it because it's just a lazy pose, but calling it "flaunting her sexuality" is stretching pretty hard. She's not spreading her legs or bending over, just standing slightly cocked and looking over her shoulder. If that's sexualized, then everything about the character is (which, arguably, she kinda is, but the OP doesn't seem to think so). It's a pretty weak argument bolstered by a "think of the children" fallacy.

    And the people who are complaining "hurr T rated why are you taking an 8 year old" can fuck right off. I'm sure most of the people on this forum were playing FF6, Chrono Trigger, or some such game by that age, and certainly long before they turned 13. It's always easy to forget what you were capable of processing by that age and massively underestimate it.

  12. #232
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    This dude does realize his 8 year old is either going to stumble onto or be shown internet porn in the next 1-2 years right? But yah, that pose of a character in a video game is really a problem. What a jackass.

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtyHobo View Post
    calling it "flaunting her sexuality" is stretching pretty hard.
    That is a gradient depending on who you ask. Clearly the people at Blizzard agreed. There is nothing else to really say about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Intrinsic View Post
    This dude does realize his 8 year old is either going to stumble onto or be shown internet porn in the next 1-2 years right? But yah, that pose of a character in a video game is really a problem. What a jackass.
    False equivalence bullshit. Don't try to not die since you're eventually gonna die anyway.

  14. #234
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    Actually, there is something more to say about it.

    Clearly, the pose was already a subject of debate internally, not only due to possible sexuality issues, but also due to (lack of) creative quality. They already stated, in very clear English, that the pose was teetering on the brink of being removed already (paraphrasing, of course), and the public outcry about it just sealed the deal for them.

  15. #235
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    Fair.

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtyHobo View Post
    I'm fine with getting rid of it because it's just a lazy pose, but calling it "flaunting her sexuality" is stretching pretty hard. She's not spreading her legs or bending over, just standing slightly cocked and looking over her shoulder. If that's sexualized, then everything about the character is (which, arguably, she kinda is, but the OP doesn't seem to think so). It's a pretty weak argument bolstered by a "think of the children" fallacy.

    And the people who are complaining "hurr T rated why are you taking an 8 year old" can fuck right off. I'm sure most of the people on this forum were playing FF6, Chrono Trigger, or some such game by that age, and certainly long before they turned 13. It's always easy to forget what you were capable of processing by that age and massively underestimate it.
    I keep forgetting I'm one of the old people here, and was playing that in my teens, but then again I started at 4 years old with an Atari 2600. Also I'd say it's a huge difference between a turn based RPG versus a shooter. But then again, I was 13 when Wolfenstein 3D came out in the good old days of dos.

    Also Desmothenes, the OP of that thread was bitching that Tracer's pose was too sexual for her character, and that's why it didn't fit, so yes bringing those other points into play is not a bullshit slippery slope. We now have precedent where if someone doesn't agree with an art style of a skin or pose for a character and complains about it on the forums, they can site back to Tracer and having it be removed as a point. I didn't care for the pose as I thought it was boring, but the fact of the matter is it was removed because someone bitched that his 8yo's favorite character has a sexual pose and Blizzard decided to side with him on it and yank it.

  17. #237
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    Yes, please tell me more about how someone saying (to paraphrase) "I have no problem with sexuality like what you seem to be doing with widowmaker, but this is not in tune with the canon you seem to be making for this particular character," is related to censoring McCree's BAMF belt or making widowmaker less sexy. Slippery slope is not valid dude. You are conflating criticism (whether you agree or not) with calls for censorship and modification of artistic vision. That said, if Blizzard does decide magically to modify Widowmaker to make her less sexy, why the fuck does anyone give a shit?

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demosthenes View Post
    Yes, please tell me more about how someone saying (to paraphrase) "I have no problem with sexuality like what you seem to be doing with widowmaker, but this is not in tune with the canon you seem to be making for this particular character," is related to censoring McCree's BAMF belt or making widowmaker less sexy. Slippery slope is not valid dude. You are conflating criticism (whether you agree or not) with calls for censorship and modification of artistic vision. That said, if Blizzard does decide magically to modify Widowmaker to make her less sexy, why the fuck does anyone give a shit?
    People give a shit because they see it as pandering to a vocal minority. Have you seen all the rage about the censorship in Bravely Default 2?

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melena View Post
    People give a shit because they see it as pandering to a vocal minority. Have you seen all the rage about the censorship in Bravely Default 2?
    What is complaining about pandering besides "you listened to someone that wasn't me and ended up doing what they wanted, not what I wanted." I've got news for them, every product ever made is pandering.

  20. #240
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    Ok it's like a brick wall with you. I consider it censorship and caving in to a vocal minority complaining about a cartoon character. And it's been an ongoing thing with video games over the past few years, especially with the rise of SJW's and gamergate

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