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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrath View Post
    Wouldn't that just be a special "be an asshole in this section only" pass? How about people shouldn't be assholes anywhere instead?
    Well, to be fair, some people's idea of being an asshole is disagreeing with them. There should be some leeway but I'm not so sure 'that' would be the way to go.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mina View Post
    Don't worry Ace. Over time we will find a way to handle repeat offenders. We just want to see how well people can moderate themselves.
    Fingers crossed that people can just do that and we don't have to prune?

    We really want to just see change and improvements. We're trying with the lowest dial here on moderation and slowly turning it up.
    Thanks for the acknowledgment. I want to see improvement too, but I don't want this section to die because the same people keep dragging down the discussions. I really enjoy this forum because I get to discuss tough topics with people that I have a lot in common with. It makes it more personal in a way that lends credence to their arguments. I read what they have to say because I value their opinion. I would much rather come here and argue about political and social issues than a random forum where I don't know anyone.

    I forgot what my point was....damn phone calls interrupting me. Don't prune the tree, just talk to the problem posters and get them to self-moderate and be civil. If that doesn't work, bring out the shears. Seems like that is what Bane is doing.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrath View Post
    Wouldn't that just be a special "be an asshole in this section only" pass? How about people shouldn't be assholes anywhere instead?
    No because then Bane would be able to infract/timeout AS SOON AS someone fucks up, instead of having to weigh whether he should or not. If someone's banned from the section for like 3 days, by the time they come back, the topic would have moved on by 15 pages, and they can't carry on with their shit.

  4. #44
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    And then what is to stop someone from trolling in youtube to derail threads when the only threat is a time out from there? As is, the only infractions I really see being tossed out are for personal attacks or in one users case, using about every derogatory term under the sun which will get you banned in any section anyways. If people know an infraction is going to keep them from posting elsewhere, it should help curb some of the assholism that takes over. Temp bans also don't stop you from PMing people if you want to ask someone to go play some destiny or some shit.

  5. #45
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    Because repeated behaviour will be obvious and they can be perm banned from the section. Whatever though, I don't feel that strongly about it. Just would be nice to see people actually face consequences for trolling.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melena View Post
    Temp bans also don't stop you from PMing people if you want to ask someone to go play some destiny or some shit.
    Unless it's changed since i last got one, they stop you from even reading the forums, unless you log out.

  7. #47
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    I would imagine that, under such a system, I would maintain the ability to give normal infractions as well, for such cases as have already been handed out. Even if I didn't, I could report them for other mods to infract.

    New system or old, I'll work with whatever. It would be handy to have sort of mini-infractions specific to this section, but at the same time, the general idea behind the current system is that if you get too many warnings/infractions too close together, you get a time out automatically. That's to encourage people to listen up the first time.

  8. #48
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    Mazmaz to be blunt the answer is no. An infraction is meant to be a kick in the balls based on whatever improper behavior you're displaying etc. To have a politics only timeout defeats the purpose. People can have a conversation in here without resorting to attacking each other. Point blank, if you fuck up hard enough to warrant getting an infraction it's bad enough that it SHOULD carry over to other forums.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by hey View Post
    Unless it's changed since i last got one, they stop you from even reading the forums, unless you log out.
    Perma boots you, I've had plenty of discussions with admins over temps. Unless theres a lockout tier system.

  10. #50
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    Okay. I needed some time to really absorb/process everything that happened today. I've learned a lot. I know this will seem somewhat perverse from your end of things, but I am much more confident in myself as a mod. That will help prevent repeats of today's mess, for which I am sorry. I made a mistake, and hurt some feelings. I am sorry for that more than anything else. As much as you guys frustrate, baffle, annoy, confuse, irritate, and occasionally anger me, I like you. I don't like it when people I like are angry at me. I like it even less when it's my own damn fault. So yeah.

    For future reference, when I "ask" you to move on (or whatever), I'm not actually asking, I'm just being polite. I let it slide today because it was resolved quickly, and because I was still thinking. I find myself consistently giving the benefit of the doubt in regards to infractions, so it is unlikely to be instant/automatic fire and brimstone, but do not push me.

    If you feel like you have something you want to say to me, feel free to PM me. Or, for that matter, if you have something you wish to bring to my attention. I see most of what goes on in here, but I am, alas, not omnipresent. Yet. Soon.

  11. #51
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    I'm not going to lie, but let me preface this by saying that Bane, you are doing a good job. Seriously. And if you know me, you know that I'm not the type of person who looks to start witch hunts with mods. I couldn't (nor would I want to) do what you guys do, and kudos to all of you for keeping this place a place I enjoy returning to.

    But I'm really frustrated with your reasoning for locking the thread this time. But you're saying that the thread is moving too fast and you can't keep up with it? I'm sorry, I don't think that's fair. I feel like the transgender thread has been a great opportunity to educate people on what being transgender means, and how to change our perceptions of gender and gender biases. And I do feel as though I was engaging in some good discussion there, and I think others would attest to that.

    Aside from a few obvious trolls who are there for nothing but trollbaiting, I feel as though the thread has progressed just fine. I've personally put a few people on ignore because A. I don't want to see what they're going to post, and B. Because I know that their only purpose is to upset people and I don't want to engage with that type of behavior. There have been two people in that thread who have been repeatedly posting one-liners and obvious trollbait, and both of them are now permanently on my ignore list.

    That's beside the point, though. These two posters have, for the most part, been ignored by the people who are trying to seriously discuss things, or at least admonished by the mods. I take issue with the fact that the other mods are "uncomfortable" stepping in when you're not available. I know that you can't be on the forum all of the time, Bane, and that's completely understandable. But what I don't understand is why, if a report comes through, a moderator from another subforum can't act on it, give their warnings, and then leave again. No one is asking them to participate in the discussion. And with the exception of one time, we have heeded the moderator warnings in the thread.

    But the biggest problem I really have is that the idea that the thread is moving too fast to be monitored, and killing it while good discussion was happening. If that's going to be the case for every thread in poopdeck and not just this one, then why even have a subforum? If we, the 1000ish(? pulling that number out of my ass) regular posters on BG can't have a good discussion while a topic is relevant because it "moves too fast," then what is the point? I'm frustrated because this sets a pretty bad precedent.

    Anyway, I really could elaborate further on this and I really don't want to seem like I'm complaining because I've found that your moderation has been, for the most part fair. But I just question this reasoning more than anything. Has the thread really veered away from its intent? I don't think so. Has the thread really gotten hateful or volatile? Must be those people I have on ignore then, and if that's what it is, then they're the problem, and not the rest of us.

  12. #52
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    To put it bluntly, why does a thread need to be locked when the babysitter isn't around?

  13. #53
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    to put it bluntly he explained why in the post, learn to read

  14. #54
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    Let me rephrase it, why does the thread need a babysitter? And why does it need to be locked when Bane has RL going on? Pretty sure, even with trolling included, as adults we don't need a time out on discussions because...feelings? I don't know, you guys still haven't done a good job explaining why threads need to be locked in the first place.

  15. #55
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    I guess I will answer this to the best of my ability. The thread is being put on ice for a multitude of reasons.

    People are being admonished and punished accordingly. Either by warnings, infractions, pms, or otherwise. I do not feel it's necessary to always do a public shaming on these people as that is not always the best way to solve issues. As we have to continually remind them, they will get infractions, bans, and further punishment. This is all being judged by the moderation team as a whole and while many people are clamoring for a harsher punishment please understand that we need to give people time and chances to change.

    The thread has brought in a mess of problems at this time. Since we have identified at least one person who has the potential to inflict harm upon themselves if we do not react to this, we are doing them a disservice. Additionally, if someone were to say something or be a part of the reason of anything unfortunate happening, we need to protect them as well. Safety for our members is more of a priority than discussion.

    This thread has introduced a string of pms, reports, and angry messages at moderators and posters alike. Which is very unusual for our sleepy forums. We are trying to figure out how to properly moderate this. It is definitely too big for just Bane to handle and we currently do not have the staff to support this. If we continued to let it go and ignore the issue, we would be poor moderators.

    This decision was not made by a single person and not every mod will agree with how this was handled, ultimately this is what we are trying to figure out how to handle.

  16. #56
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    Forced to agree with Salodin here. Let threads continue while you're not around. You're giving people the rope to hang themselves, and can come in after the fact to examine the entirety of what happened, where it derailed, who caused it, and issue infractions/bans appropriately. It's just condescending to suggest we need our hands held.

  17. #57
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    What this does, honestly, is keep me from wanting to post in this section. It basically tells me that if I'm going to get engaged into a really good discussion with somebody where there are good points and counterpoints and lots of educational posts and information, as soon as we really get into it in the front starts to move really quickly, the thread will be locked, essentially stunting discussion. That doesn't make me want to post or engage in this section.

    And this isn't just about the transgender thread, though that prompted it.

    I am leaving now so if I do not respond it is because I'm driving.

  18. #58
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    Thank you, a straight answer. Finally.

    That said, if some one is emotionally unable to participate in a thread up to and including the point where they would harm themselves, why are they still reading? Why are they allowed to enter the sub-forum? If you guys identified some one like that, imo, get them the fuck outta here. I'm not saying this cause I particularly care about any specific thread or sub forum, but for their own sake why do you allow them to continue? If anything, you are doing them a disservice by continuing to stand by and let them dictate discussion because of your fear of them hurting themselves. Don't put us through that. Don't put yourselves through that. You guys already perm ban people who threaten legal action against BG, why not temp/perm ban people who threaten violence on others or themselves too?

    Keep up the good work with infractions, bans, etc. I think they could be harsher, but from your explanation you make it seem like those are coming after the obligatory round of warning and temp bans. NBD, time (and patient modding) will fix it.

    It's just condescending to suggest we need our hands held.
    QF Fucking T

  19. #59
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    The last 3 days has seen 12 threads created in the moderator section from reported posts about various exchanges in that thread. Looks like a discussion that required a lot of hand-holding to me.

  20. #60
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    I sincerely apologize.

    I am of the opinion to stay in the thread and deal out infractions and bans accordingly but I am not the entire moderation team. I'm actually just a content mod now and this is definitely out of my jurisdiction but I can't ignore the reports flowing through. I am only the first mod to come in and respond and I have done my best to relay the argument given to close the thread at this time. I am certain a much better mod than me will come to explain and make my explanation look dumb because I am a derp.

    Trust me when I say I understand the frustrations of people here.

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