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  1. #21
    Ridill
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    For profit university problems.

  2. #22
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    There will be no reform because the unions don't want it.

    Going to need more than "free" community college to make education better.

    Why stop there why not free books free pencils etc.

  3. #23

    They shouldn't have majored in Liberal Studies. Hell, Basket Weaving would have been more practical.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waraji View Post
    They shouldn't have majored in Liberal Studies. Hell, Basket Weaving would have been more practical.
    They shouldn't have gone to a for profit university*

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    They shouldn't have gone to a for profit university*
    As someone who got suckered into one, they are much like used car salesman. They know all the buzzwords and ways to make it sound like if you go to a community college, you are wasting time and money. Hell my AA is all but useless in the fact that if I wanted to get my bachelors, i'm essentially starting over. If I knew what I know now 12 years ago, I wouldn't have gone. At least I only got about 4300 to go before I'm paid off.

  6. #26
    BG Medical's Student of Medicine
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    The biggest issue with FPB schools is they're essentially diploma mills with little networking and nothing outside of "practical" coursework. It would be better to get an internship than a diploma from somewhere like Everest, because at least you'll have the necessary credentials and networking to ascend the career ladder as opposed to a piece of paper that's definitively more expensive than a real college and infinitely more worthless.

    As for the remainder of the population, loan relief in the form of decreased interest or more lenient forgiveness policies (public service of all types, STEM, teaching, etc) is the only hope people have.

    The real problem is more money is pumped into the system for lobbying and grants than there is for scholarships. Most people don't even know what they're eligible for and just go to school anyway because logical progression and therefore end up paying off loans. I actually needed mine or the streets would have been my residence. My scholarships and grants easily covered most of my tuition. Not everyone is that lucky.

  7. #27
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    I would like to write a long rant about how the gov't royally fucked up education, but the gov't royally fucked up education, so I have no time to do so.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    I would like to write a long rant about how the gov't royally fucked up education, but the gov't royally fucked up education, so I have no time to do so.
    No argument here. They really fucked up.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    I would like to write a long rant about how the gov't royally fucked up education, but the gov't royally fucked up education, so I have no time to do so.
    When my parents and I can't understand my nieces' homework (common core bullshit worksheets, 1st and 2nd grade work) all I want to do is /facepalm.

  10. #30
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    Common Core gets a bad rap, particularly with teachers who don't accept the answers from students who do the work the "wrong" way. That's particularly with the math homework and I have no plans to teach math ever, but everything I've heard about Common Core in college and out in the actual schools tells me that, as usual, people have the wrong interpretation of what Common Core actually is.

    Florida rejected the "Common Core" label so we have the "Florida Standards" which are the exact fucking same standards as CC but with a different name (fucking Florida lol) but CC doesn't make you specifically teach certain things a certain way, it just lists standards that students should be expected to know when they reach the end of the year. I urge everyone to look it up: corestandards.org

    Now, there are workbooks that some districts use that are basically scripted curriculum, the school I'm interning at weekly this semester uses that, and I personally hate it. Parents should be directing their anger at that, because they don't allow for differentiations and deviations for ESOL/ESE kids and they give the teacher seemingly little freedom over how they'd like to teach. But all the complaining I see from people who aren't in the education field is about how Common Core is ruining education. It's not. State-mandated high-pressure testing is (imo) the biggest thing that is ruining education.

  11. #31
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    The idea behind common core was good, the implementation has been utter shit. The most obvious examples being those stupid math worksheets that take damn near an entire page to solve 5x12 because you have to draw lines and dots and circles.

    As others have said, when you have adults and people with advanced degrees struggling with these methods, they're not working well. And when they do figure it out finally, they're left wondering why you would ever use a method that is more convoluted and takes several times longer than the traditional method.

  12. #32
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    @aks
    I used to think like you until I realized how tied in they all are. It is not just common core, it's that common core is tired in with how they make the tests, which is how they make their textbooks to teach to the test. It's a ploy to make people feel there is more freedom with common core, but their really isn't. If the "common core aligned" test tests students on stupid math, then teachers need new textbooks to show how to teach the students stupid math. And the common core aligned test is another way to get licencing money.


    It is a severe cash grab, and I think it is a disservice to over simplify it. Parents need to know, parents needed to write their reps to stop fucking their children's future in order to sell more textbooks.

    Also, it does affect English, by us having to use the specific academic vocabulary that is in the tests (ie. evidence from the text vs supporting examples)

  13. #33
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    Common Core has its issues, but there's nothing inherently wrong with defining a national minimum education standard.

    As far as the pictorial math everyone hates, that's a bastardized idea from fMRI studies that had very little non-theoretical support as a superior teaching method until it was nationally implemented. Other countries (mostly in Asia) were using it previously, but they were not comparing it to rout memorization.

  14. #34
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    I guess I just see it differently since Florida decided to reject it and design their own standards (which are the same but they claim they're different lol) and I think the tests here are done by the state, though I admit I really don't know where the FSA and its predecessor, the FCAT, originate from.

    So far this semester I've been assigned to a high school for approximately 4 weeks and I've seen the students go through two rounds of standardized testing, which is just absolutely fucking ridiculous to me. I know that the textbook companies are big business and that their particular brand of propaganda is big business, but honestly I feel like if we hadn't made this kind of testing craze to begin with, then it wouldn't have gotten the way it is. The tests prove nothing substantial. FSA (Florida State Assessment), which is new as of last year, requires essays, and I don't know if other state assessments do, as my focus is rather turned toward Florida and little else, since I have no plans to teach outside of Florida, at least for the time being. To me, a writing sample is a much better indicator of whether or not students can make connections, find evidence, and prove comprehension than multiple choice questions are, so that, at least, is moving in the right direction.

    But it is fucked up, not denying that. I just don't like people who hate on Common Core without realizing that there are so many other factors at work that go along with it.

  15. #35
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Common Core has its issues, but there's nothing inherently wrong with defining a national minimum education standard.
    There is if you realize that privilege can widely affect your learning. My students go home to crack-addled parents who don't watch the younger siblings so the kids has to while being so hungry they can't even think.


    How are they supposed to do homework/study? It is not their fault their parents are fucked up. But the school had no money to hire what these kids really need (ie cooking healthy and cheap classes), because we have to focus on what is important for the test.

    But by teaching them algebra means they will also be ducked up when they grow up and the cycle will continue.

    Honesty, after teaching at a rich CEO school and a low income gang heavy school, I can tell you common core is the dumbest shit ever because we have no funding

    Schools need money, not tests.

    Private schools age teaching their kids just fine without the tests. And they have money. That's where the problem lies.

  16. #36
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    The thing about requiring standards of education in a public school is that you need some way to quantify whether you are meeting those standards.

    When you factor in the disparity in teacher:student ratios between poorer and wealthier areas, learning disabilities, ESL, etc the amount of things you can fairly measure universally fall drastically.

    Essays are one of the biggest fucking time-sinks to grade too, with very little return on investment. Who is going to grade the essays in a standardized way? Personally, even the SAT doesn't handle essays well and they don't have every kid in the country taking it every year.

    Standardized tests suck, yes, I agree with that. Teaching solely to the test (something I experience in the first round of students to go through MCAS) sucks badly. But a better alternative doesn't currently exist. CC might work, we don't have enough data yet, but even if it does it certainly won't work for everyone. That is just the nature of learning. Going back to pre-standardized testing just isn't an option in this country either, so we are sort of stuck with the shit we have.

    Everyone knows it isn't optimal. Everyone knows that students at both ends of the spectrum (dumb/smart) get fucked by the system. But with funding for education being what it is, all we are ever going to do for the majority of students is make sure that they can pass basic algebra and distinguish a noun from a verb. 35 kids to 1 teacher doesn't allow for any more than that.

  17. #37
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    And for what it's worth the problem exists at a college level too. Ever tried teaching physics in an auditorium to 200+ students using slides? You want to know what doesn't happen for the entire time you are teaching physics to those 200 students? Anyone learning any physics - that is what doesn't happen.

  18. #38
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    Are these Common Core things only affecting public schools or Private as well? Not that I feel the private schools (that aren't the super fucking rich people only ones) are really any better/different cause some of the dumbest people I know went to private schools.

    I hate our current education system and I am fearful of entering my children into it when I have them, no idea what the fuck I'm going to do. I want them to have what I had which seemed to be just fine.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyiee View Post
    I want them to have what I had which seemed to be just fine.
    This is my line of thinking, too. Teachers had a lot of freedom in the 80s and 90s, and I think a lot of people turned out perfectly fine from that. Somewhere, the idea got into our heads that our schools were failing, which is absolutely true for some of them, but probably the vast majority of schools were doing absolutely fine. You literally can't reach every kid and get all kids to graduate or be successful, just in terms of statistics it just doesn't seem possible or likely, not unless you completely dumb down everything. It's sad that some kids give up and drop out, it's sad that some kids fail out of school, but you're always going to have those statistically low kids who can't or won't achieve. And I'm not saying that teachers individually should give up on them, but that we as a country have to recognize that not every kid is going to succeed in school. It's just impossible to expect that. But now it seems like the push is to get every kid to achieve, which is absolutely an impossible goal. So they decided to change what "wasn't working" about schools and came up with this.

    The whole thing sucks.

  20. #40

    They started doing no child left behind in the 90s which meant that all the schools I went to made special classes for the non-retards to go to and actually learn things

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