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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by JigglyJam View Post
    Are you teaching at like the juvenile justice facility or something? jesus
    Honestly she could be describing an inner city school district (from a "bad neighborhood") anywhere in the country.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    With that said I do not know if that is a good idea though because my experience has been that mixing students usually means the teacher has to focus so much on the behavioral issues in the class that the good students fall through the cracks.

    I am struggling with something similar in one of my classes. One student is "getting kicked out of school" so doesn't give a fuck. None of us have leverage with him, and he causes havoc left and right in all of his classes. I have to follow tons of procedures every day before I can kick him out of class, and means he sucks away my time from the good students. He hasn't been kicked out because they need the mother to sign the paperwork and she won't (she doesn't want to deal with him either and has called the cops on him because she is terrified).

    I have another student who threatens everyday to bring his gun into school (believable, he is a third generation gang member.) Another student who was full on high yesterday acting wacky. And so on.

    Mixing these kids with regular students won't magically take them out of gang families. It won't magically make their parents quit drugs. It won't magically make them afford food on their table.

    It might be a good idea, if we had enough teachers for it. idk I don't think it would be something you'd want to do right away, though.
    I 100% understand that there are bad apples in your school, and I don't think they'd all magically go away if schools were desegregated. However, if you combine all the high-probability legal offenders in one school, you've just made a pre-prison daycare.

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    Teachers are bad because schools have no money to pay good ones. Nor do they have enough money to attract younger college graduates to teach for them. This is precisely why logic matters. Went back and forth like 3x and you only saw the argument you were making, not the one I was. The kid is probably at a high school where the only people left to teach are dumb as fuck, undereducated, and uncaring and they have no money to hire anyone else. Not all teachers are dumb, but there are more and more dumb ones than good ones cuz "schools need money" to pay better ones.

    What makes you think I don't know this shit? I went to high schools in poor suburbs of Boston. I know as well as anyone that schools need money for teachers and supplies, it might be the reason I KEEP SAYING that schools need money. When I was 14 we had the art program shut down cuz of funding, all my friends were into art, it hit them hard.

    There is literally nothing you are saying regarding money that I do not agree with. I just disagree with you thinking you ever had any "choice" in what you were teaching and that new thing is worse than old thing because old thing is how we did it and get off my lawn.

    And again, like I have ALREADY said, I totally understand that to properly teach CC people are being expected to dedicate LARGE chunks of their free time to learning CC to be able to teach it, for zero extra pay. This is part of the reason teachers are leaving. Some political pressure? Sure. Maybe a little moral indignity? Ok. Overwhelming amounts of "I don't get paid enough for this shit"? Yes.

  3. #83
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    Education Reform Thread

    Like genuinely I don't know if I'm high or if you're just used to me taking an antagonistic stance against you or what. I must've said schools need more money in 5 different posts since this started.

    Like literally
    Schools don't need more money because the teachers are bad. Where did you get that fucking idea?
    All you had to do was reorder the statement you thought I made, to the point I was actually making. It is amazing to me that you didn't make that connection and seriously read so little of the rest of my words that you thought I was arguing with you.

    Hilarious.

  4. #84
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    Teachers are bad because schools have no money to pay good ones. Nor do they have enough money to attract younger college graduates to teach for them. This is precisely why logic matters. Went back and forth like 3x and you only saw the argument you were making, not the one I was. The kid is probably at a high school where the only people left to teach are dumb as fuck, undereducated, and uncaring and they have no money to hire anyone else. Not all teachers are dumb, but there are more and more dumb ones than good ones cuz "schools need money" to pay better ones.

    What makes you think I don't know this shit? I went to high schools in poor suburbs of Boston. I know as well as anyone that schools need money for teachers and supplies, it might be the reason I KEEP SAYING that schools need money. When I was 14 we had the art program shut down cuz of funding, all my friends were into art, it hit them hard.

    There is literally nothing you are saying regarding money that I do not agree with. I just disagree with you thinking you ever had any "choice" in what you were teaching and that new thing is worse than old thing because old thing is how we did it and get off my lawn.

    And again, like I have ALREADY said, I totally understand that to properly teach CC people are being expected to dedicate LARGE chunks of their free time to learning CC to be able to teach it, for zero extra pay. This is part of the reason teachers are leaving. Some political pressure? Sure. Maybe a little moral indignity? Ok. Overwhelming amounts of "I don't get paid enough for this shit"? Yes.
    Do you not understand you are constantly say that I am shit, my mother (who had a day named after her in CT for her work) is shit, etc. because I am a teacher right? I must be shit because I am doing it for less money than what good teachers deserve? It couldn't be that I love doing it. But that I must not have been able to get the job if it paid more?

    Do you not understand I worked at a rich as shit private school for rich CEO Harvard-driven students and they still paid the same as what I am getting at this school? Many teachers who were fucking brilliant work there and they get paid as much as I do at this school. Fuck off with that logic.

    From day one of going into teaching you are taught "don't go for the money." This is not to say teachers shouldn't be paid more (they really should), but that money was not the driving force for even the good ones. Teachers were always underpaid. When our own great teachers worked, they were underpaid. When my mom won the award, she was underpaid. This is not new.

  5. #85
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    Literally quoting a post in which I say "not all teachers are dumb (shit)" and responding solely to the statement that "all teachers are shit".

    The more you rant the more you actually worry me that you do teach kids. You lack objectivity.

  6. #86
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    Literally quoting a post in which I say "not all teachers are dumb (shit)" and responding solely to the statement that "all teachers are shit".

    The more you rant the more you actually worry me that you do teach kids. You lack objectivity.
    But your logic is to automatically jump and say it's the teachers. You think the lack of money is supposed to go towards hiring better teachers. Then you say, "The kid is probably at a high school where the only people left to teach are dumb as fuck, undereducated, and uncaring and they have no money to hire anyone else." When I say my school has the same problem. It's no different. You agree school needs more money, but I don't agree with where the focus needs to be. Get more teachers, get extracurricular activities back, get better resources, THEN worry about teacher pay. I would love love love to get paid more. But me getting paid more just makes me happy, it doesn't help the students, and it doesn't ease my workload.

  7. #87
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    Also, FWIW, I don't care if you and your mother are fucking Nobel candidates for how good you are at teaching. Unless you can clone yourself, or give your selfless drive to sacrifice you happiness, and apparently sanity, to be the best teacher you can be, guess what? The shit teachers will outnumber the not-shit teachers.

    You think anyone reading this thread is under any possible misconception that people "go into teaching for the money"? When teachers have to buy all their own supplies, work 18 hour days, deal with underfunded and underequipped schools, do you really think I am saying that people will only go into teaching to be rich? Is that really what you think?

    How about "I'd go into teaching if there was any chance I could do it and still feed my family."

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    But your logic is to automatically jump and say it's the teachers. You think the lack of money is supposed to go towards hiring better teachers. Then you say, "The kid is probably at a high school where the only people left to teach are dumb as fuck, undereducated, and uncaring and they have no money to hire anyone else." When I say my school has the same problem. It's no different. You agree school needs more money, but I don't agree with where the focus needs to be. Get more teachers, get extracurricular activities back, get better resources, THEN worry about teacher pay. I would love love love to get paid more. But me getting paid more just makes me happy, it doesn't help the students, and it doesn't ease my workload.
    How, pray tell, do you plan to get more teachers when old ones are retiring and college graduates have more debt than they could pay off in three lifetimes as a public school teacher?

    Can you grow good teachers? Are they Chia pets?

  9. #89
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Maybe I am overwhelmed with this and taking it too far idk. Had to deal with all that shit just yesterday, and then had to break a fight in class today. So having then someone automatically assume it's bad teachers when I deal with the same shit doesn't sit well with me at all when I am fucking working my ass off here.

  10. #90
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    How, pray tell, do you plan to get more teachers when old ones are retiring and college graduates have more debt than they could pay off in three lifetimes as a public school teacher?

    Can you grow good teachers? Are they Chia pets?
    College graduates are scared of the behavior and the workload. Most new teachers give up because of the behavior and the workload. Fuck, I am stressed out because of the behavior and the workload. Again, being underpaid is not anything new. You are always told don't go for the money. At the private school, again, teachers were paid the same, but they were happy. Like honest to God happy. Because the workload wasn't overbearing. They didn't have the test pressure other teachers have. They had support from each other. And the kids behaved because there was no insane protocol about kicking them out if they didn't.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    College graduates are scared of the behavior and the workload. Most new teachers give up because of the behavior and the workload. Fuck, I am stressed out because of the behavior and the workload. Again, being underpaid is not anything new. You are always told don't go for the money. At the private school, again, teachers were paid the same, but they were happy. Like honest to God happy. Because the workload wasn't overbearing. They didn't have the test pressure other teachers have. They had support from each other. And the kids behaved because there was no insane protocol about kicking them out if they didn't.
    Behavior can be viewed as a consequence of having 1 teacher for 35-40 students. Not the sole result, but a consequence. Kids fuck off much less in smaller class sizes, and the classes are easier to control. Reduced class size means reduced work load for the teacher, and better ability to teach, which improves the overall mean of scores.

    To reduce class size you need more teachers. Pay for teachers has gone DOWN, while class size has gone UP, and QoL necessities have disappeared.

    You NEED more bodies in school to herd the cats. You NEED more bodies in school to give students the attention they need. To do that you NEED to incentivize the demographic of potential teachers who opt to do something else. The ones who will teach regardless are NOT the ones who will fix things.

    At the end of the day, new textbooks and computers wont save you from grading 40 papers a night from a class where there were at least 10 people you gave up trying to get to pay attention.

  12. #92
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    Education Reform Thread

    In MA they have a program, idfk the name, but they like pay off your college loans / send you to grad school for free / some other shit in exchange for working N years in the public school system for areas in need. These might not be the exact incentives, but they made math majors sit through like two talks a year about it. I always just did HW during it though.

    It's one way that the new graduates are being incentivized. I know more than a few people who are teaching in public school for 4-8 years because they didn't know what else to do and the offers were too good overall.

    Edit: and it seems to be working well.

  13. #93
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    Fuck, I'd do that

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotsudoku View Post
    Fuck, I'd do that
    IIRC it was only for certain majors, but I know math and physics got it, probably the engineers too since we had a huge engineering department. I don't know which others.

    But yeah, it was a good idea and it always got people talking. Every time after you would hear "I wasnt planning to go to grad school cuz I need money...but hell if all I have to do is teach" etc

  15. #95
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    Behavior can be viewed as a consequence of having 1 teacher for 35-40 students. Not the sole result, but a consequence. Kids fuck off much less in smaller class sizes, and the classes are easier to control. Reduced class size means reduced work load for the teacher, and better ability to teach, which improves the overall mean of scores.
    I have said this many times already.

    To reduce class size you need more teachers. Pay for teachers has gone DOWN, while class size has gone UP, and QoL necessities have disappeared.
    I don't think you understand. Pay for teachers going down is not the reason for less teachers (and larger classes). Pay reduction and teacher size is the direct result of funding (state, fed, and town) the schools get which has been reducing every year.


    Because of the standardized tests, the first thing to go were classes like art and music so we could afford to pay the core teachers. But it didn't end there. Budget cuts still keep happening. Schools have to decide "do we pay the teachers even less or cut some core teachers and use that money to pay the remaining ones?"

    When I got my cert 4 years ago, teaching was still a flooded market despite constant cutbacks. It's only been about two years where the market started to dry up. But class sizes have been huge for about 10+ years now.

  16. #96
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    In MA they have a program, idfk the name, but they like pay off your college loans / send you to grad school for free / some other shit in exchange for working N years in the public school system for areas in need. These might not be the exact incentives, but they made math majors sit through like two talks a year about it. I always just did HW during it though.

    It's one way that the new graduates are being incentivized. I know more than a few people who are teaching in public school for 4-8 years because they didn't know what else to do and the offers were too good overall.

    Edit: and it seems to be working well.
    I think most states do that. Yes, math and science have had a long history of needing teachers. But English/history/language has been flooded until recently.

    It's not only math and science with big class sizes.

    The reason there is there are a lot more options for other jobs with those majors. Not much to do with an English or Spanish degree.


    [edit] I should also do my duty and mention that partial funding is from the district passing the school budgets. If you don't go and vote, you are part of the problem. I've had to hear my mom complain over the years that the town passes smaller and smaller budgets because people don't want to pay the taxes for it. And I don't think that is unique to her town.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirian View Post
    Just wanted to confirm what was said by saying that I got through HS, got into college, and now graduate school without ever taking the SAT. Personally, I'm the only person I know from the US that hasn't taken the SAT, though
    I didn't take it myself, but that wasn't due to me not wanting to. I was just in a bad situation mentally with home my last two years in high school and didn't want the parents to drop the assload of money to take it when they were struggling to make ends meat.

  18. #98
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    I had a whole reply but honestly, fuck it.

    If you can't bring in new teachers, you can't educate the kids. If you don't offer to pay more to do the job, you wont bring in prospective hires.

    Art has been getting cut since before I was in high school. Since before state-wide standardized testing began. CC and *CAT tests didn't kill arts and humanities, they have been the first to get the axe since funding started being cut.

    You are in a very small minority of people who will suffer in silence (apparently not so much here) for the ability to teach. And honestly, we are lucky that people like you exist, but let me reiterate something clearly.

    Teachers like you are not what will fix the education system. There are not enough of you to matter, sorry. Need to get people who "don't really want to teach, but if the money is good I'd do it until something better comes along" and hope you retain some of them.

  19. #99
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    Not gonna quote it but:

    If you paid to go to college to major in spanish you deserve to be poor. Buy a fucking copy of rosetta stone.

    Fuck.

    I'm going to bed.

  20. #100
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    Not gonna quote it but:

    If you paid to go to college to major in spanish you deserve to be poor. Buy a fucking copy of rosetta stone.

    Fuck.

    I'm going to bed.
    Lol, I know, but I am just saying that's why they are flooded. haha

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