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  1. #121
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    Education Reform Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    Cooking/nutrition. There is a reason there is an obesity epidemic in this country. You overestimate what many can do. Kids cannot study when hungry. My kids are starving and could learn how to cook healthy food for decent money.

    Do I think that can solve the teaching problem? No, I think it is a valuable thing that schools actually CAN do to help educate people.
    And that's great, but it wasn't even close to a response to the question, lol.

    You just basically became a politician on Family Guy. "What is your stance on taxes?" "9/11."

    For the record: I think kids ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT have mandatory art/music/home ec classes. Should they be available? Yes. Mandatory? No.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    To start off:

    Do I think I should be paid 150k a year? No. That is the amount I think you'd have to pay for these "brilliant teachers" you have been talking about.

    Just fyi LAUSD teachers make on average 75k +, so I would not consider that estimate overwhelming.
    75k is around the amount the woman in my story was making (she made a tad more). If that was available as a staring salary for a well-qualified teacher, I'd probably have done it -- 75k is more than a lot of people make starting out of law school now (myself included) if you aren't doing corporate law in a big firm.

    But I'm sure the teachers that make that much are 10+ year veterans. Which goes back to my point that I don't believe a teacher should get better pay based on tenure. I'm sure many older teachers deserve 60-70k, but I'm also sure that a lot of them don't. I think it should be like most jobs where you are rewarded for being better at your job. Some of that definitely comes with experience, but there's definitely a point at which we can say being a 10-year veteran isn't as important as being talented.

    Although again the problem with that of course is that evaluating teachers is hard given that we're using flawed metrics to evaluate students. So many schools focus intensely on getting test scores up then immediately stagnate when the test scores plateau. And that's because they are focusing on scores as results rather than actually teaching.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    Personally, when I refer to private schools, I am talking about secular ones. Not religious schools. Not sure if other people are though.
    I figured they might be, and the secular ones I'm sure have fewer restrictions on their teachers than the parochial ones. Like I said though, it was just something that struck me when I read that post. I would basically never be able to teach at my old high school.

  4. #124
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    Education Reform Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aksannyi View Post
    I figured they might be, and the secular ones I'm sure have fewer restrictions on their teachers than the parochial ones. Like I said though, it was just something that struck me when I read that post. I would basically never be able to teach at my old high school.
    Depending on the type of private schools, there are other restrictions though. Many of the ones I know of with really nice perks won't even consider you without a PhD or at the very LEAST a masters.

    And they still pay less than public schools.

  5. #125
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gredival View Post
    75k is around the amount the woman in my story was making (she made a tad more). If that was available as a staring salary for a well-qualified teacher, I'd probably have done it -- 75k is more than a lot of people make starting out of law school now (myself included) if you aren't doing corporate law in a big firm.

    But I'm sure the teachers that make that much are 10+ year veterans. Which goes back to my point that I don't believe a teacher should get better pay based on tenure. I'm sure many older teachers deserve 60-70k, but I'm also sure that a lot of them don't.
    Starting teachers make about 55k. (I make less because I am at a LAUSD charter). It takes about 5-6 years to get to 70k.

    Tenure doesn't exist in California anymore.

  6. #126
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    And they still pay less than public schools.
    This is very true. They seem to be much happier though.

    I also want to state that I don't think college prof should get paid less than HS teachers. But all teachers (college, hs, etc.) are underpaid. Not 150k underpaid, mind you.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    Depending on the type of private schools, there are other restrictions though. Many of the ones I know of with really nice perks won't even consider you without a PhD or at the very LEAST a masters.

    And they still pay less than public schools.
    True, true. I'd consider going for a graduate degree - and I really want one - if I didn't have more than $100k in student debt already. As badly as I want to attend grad school, with programs that are apparently molded around one's ability to still be a full-time teacher and attend, I can't justify going into even more debt to do it. While there may be some programs to put people through graduate school, I'd imagine they're rare and difficult to get. It really sucks, because I do want at least a MA, and sometimes I think I'm crazy enough to want a PhD.

    But I know that I'll still be happy as a teacher with a B.S., so that's what I'm going to do.

    I do think it's kind of silly to require a graduate degree for teaching high school or below, but private schools are allowed to do whatever they want, by virtue of being private.

  8. #128
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    I have my masters which is what I think helped get into the private school. But they seem to also be looking for people who are laid back, oddly enough. I work with a private school recruiting company, and every app description seems to list "needs to have a good sense of humor." Even some of the super beverly hills ones. If you met me irl, you'd understand how I fit that. According to my coworkers from last year, my attitude in the interview is what caused me to beat out the other apps.

    [edit] I should add that the degree thing imo is mostly bragging rights because they are in competition with the surrounding schools for applicants. I took over for the history teacher who left suddenly towards the end of the year. Team/students loved me, but the head of the school who barely knew me, wouldn't even interview me because I don't have a history cert.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    I have my masters which is what I think helped get into the private school. But they seem to also be looking for people who are laid back, oddly enough. I work with a private school recruiting company, and every app description seems to list "needs to have a good sense of humor." Even some of the super beverly hills ones. If you met me irl, you'd understand how I fit that. According to my coworkers from last year, my attitude in the interview is what caused me to beat out the other apps.

    [edit] I should add that the degree thing imo is mostly bragging rights because they are in competition with the surrounding schools for applicants. I took over for the history teacher who left suddenly towards the end of the year. Team/students loved me, but the head of the school who barely knew me, wouldn't even interview me because I don't have a history cert.
    It's probably because private schools want that "Cider House Rules" type of eccentric but lovable teacher who inspires students to learn.

    Bonus points for being a retired professor, jaded with the system, who wants to get back to their roots by instilling a love of learning in the young.

    Etc etc

  10. #130
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Speaking of which! (Sorry, I could go on about education stuff for forever.) If things continue the way they are, expect history classes to go away within the next ten years.


    It's already started.

  11. #131
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    History the way it's been taught for so long is so inaccurate already, and the only reason some people probably want to do away with it is because people have started to notice that history is incredibly biased and in many cases, downright wrong, and started to call them on it. Rather than actually teach what happened - which paints the settlers and all of these great (white, male) American heroes as, well, villains - they'd rather keep kids ignorant I guess.

    At least that's my theory on the matter.

  12. #132
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    tl;dr of the thread: either move to Boston, NYC, or LA and send your kids to private school, or move to the netherlands or asia.

  13. #133
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksannyi View Post
    History the way it's been taught for so long is so inaccurate already, and the only reason some people probably want to do away with it is because people have started to notice that history is incredibly biased and in many cases, downright wrong, and started to call them on it. Rather than actually teach what happened - which paints the settlers and all of these great (white, male) American heroes as, well, villains - they'd rather keep kids ignorant I guess.

    At least that's my theory on the matter.
    That could be partially it, but because of budget cuts they figure English teachers can just teach it through primary source literature. It's called blended learning. It's another easy way to cut out a teacher salary.

  14. #134
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    tl;dr of the thread: either move to Boston, NYC, or LA and send your kids to private school, or move to the netherlands or asia.
    I wonder if America's penis hat is having the same problems.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    That could be partially it, but because of budget cuts they figure English teachers can just teach it through primary source literature. It's called blended learning. It's another easy way to cut out a teacher salary.
    That too.

    I'll take off my tinfoil hat and go to bed now. XD

  16. #136
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    Not sure, really. However I'm not really joking. Girlfriend and I established long ago that, in the event that kids DO end up on the menu, there is zero chance that they are going to go through a public school system. Highly likely that if we do choose to have kids, which is only going to happen if we end up making a combined dollar amount that we've already decided on by a certain age, it's going to be peace out USA.

    Blubb isn't wrong about the overly-litigious nature of the country, as it applies to the school system. I think countries like Sweden, Denmark, lolJapan, Norway, even Canada (in some aspects) etc all do the school thing much better.

  17. #137
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    Not sure, really. However I'm not really joking. Girlfriend and I established long ago that, in the event that kids DO end up on the menu, there is zero chance that they are going to go through a public school system. Highly likely that if we do choose to have kids, which is only going to happen if we end up making a combined dollar amount that we've already decided on by a certain age, it's going to be peace out USA.

    Blubb isn't wrong about the overly-litigious nature of the country, as it applies to the school system. I think countries like Sweden, Denmark, lolJapan, Norway, even Canada (in some aspects) etc all do the school thing much better.
    He definitely is right. My sister was an elementary school teacher. A student attacked her and she called the police. She got fired for not waiting 15 minutes before calling (school policy). She sued the school and won, but that still left her without a job.

    I am sure the school instituted that ridiculous policy because of parents suing for calling the cops on their kids in the past.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    Starting teachers make about 55k. (I make less because I am at a LAUSD charter). It takes about 5-6 years to get to 70k.

    Tenure doesn't exist in California anymore.
    Tenure in the "duration of service" sense not the "cannot get fired no matter what" sense. Experience obviously factors into how anyone gets paid, but there's a point where experience doesn't add the value people assume it will.

    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    Blubb isn't wrong about the overly-litigious nature of the country, as it applies to the school system. I think countries like Sweden, Denmark, lolJapan, Norway, even Canada (in some aspects) etc all do the school thing much better.
    Honestly I think the problem is the parents. Too often now you get parents that treat teachers like babysitters and don't participate in their children's education, or believe all the self-esteem rubbish they feed their children and can't accept responsibility when their child underperforms or acts out.

    Litigation is just one of the tools used to avoid admitting their own failings. Same thing that leads people to blame on violent video games or had led to the rise of trigger warnings, etc.

  19. #139
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    Is tracking still a thing in schools nowadays? I know I was an asshole in grade school because I was bored in class, but part of the reason I got better in middle school was that we were separated by our academic abilities. They stopped it sometime in the 90's after I graduated (at least in my district in Illinois), and I personally thought it was the wrong decision. I understand parents and kids don't like being told they aren't as smart as the other students, but I feel it does more harm than good. Smart kids get bored because the material is too easy, slower kids get frustrated because they can't keep up.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xantavia View Post
    Is tracking still a thing in schools nowadays? I know I was an asshole in grade school because I was bored in class, but part of the reason I got better in middle school was that we were separated by our academic abilities. They stopped it sometime in the 90's after I graduated (at least in my district in Illinois), and I personally thought it was the wrong decision. I understand parents and kids don't like being told they aren't as smart as the other students, but I feel it does more harm than good. Smart kids get bored because the material is too easy, slower kids get frustrated because they can't keep up.
    I don't believe so. In high school you still get sorted into different classes of course, although that's limited by what advanced courses a school offers (one of the reason those who can afford to put their kids through private schools). But I've never heard of grade school classes being separated into tiers.

    This is one of the arguments for integrating technology in the classroom and for more online learning, so that students get personalized/tailored lessons rather than going with a median pace where certain students fall behind or get bored

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