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    Education Reform Thread

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...b557468d96a48f

    WASHINGTON -- President Obama will propose two years of free community college for American workers Friday, part of what the White House says is an effort to make community college as universal as high school is today.

    The White House said details on the cost and funding would come in the State of the Union Address on Jan. 20 and the president's budget request Feb. 2. But the White House expects 9 million students to participate and save up to $3,800 a year for two years. That would place the cost at nearly $70 billion, though there are questions about building capacity at the nation's 1,100 community colleges.

    The federal government would pay three quarters of the cost, at least initially.
    Looks like Obama would like to make Community Colleges tuition free for students. Pretty much taking K-12 and turning it into K-14.

    This is typical Obama though, in that it's half steps measures everywhere. I would like for him to make all public universities tuition free but this is also a great step in the right direction.

    Snip snip snip, don't quote whole articles

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    paid for with Tennessee Lottery proceeds
    oh good, a tax on the poor then.

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    @ZaidJilani is providing some good lulz pointing out the hypocrites using the hashtag #FreeCommunityCollege to preach against free handouts, while having already received said handouts.

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    Awesome. More taxes and larger deficit.

  5. #5
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    I'd rather they make the first two years of community college free than make it so that community college students take out insane amounts of loans for free money that they then have to either default on or pay back later.

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    The cost of making all public colleges free tuition ($40-60b per year on top of what's already covered by government grants) is a fraction of the cost of the Bush tax cuts (on the order of hundreds of billions per year) and the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and arguably would have some positive long-term effects as a result.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...n-free/282803/

    Of course, tuition != total cost to attend, and there are issues with quality and culture of education (including K-12) that still need to be addressed. Investing in a skilled workforce in a century where a lot of unskilled labor will be automated away is something we'll have to grapple with sooner or later unless we want to opt for Basic Income instead.

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    Would this apply to former college dropouts? Would this apply to former graduates seeking other training/certificates? Can I get 2 years of my loans forgiven? A step in the right direction, but I think the loan structure needs to change.

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    Extend this to trade schools and I may be on board. Not everyone has what it takes to do get an AA. But some people really like the hands-on work and training that type of workforce is as beneficial to the community as a desk job. Not everyone can do college math well, and I have tutored a few people who plain don't get algebra when calculus or statistics is needed as a prerequisite for upper division courses.

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    http://thinkprogress.org/education/2...-college-free/

    Tuition at public colleges came to $62.6 billion in 2012, according to the latest government data. That’s less than what the government already spends to subsidize the cost of college through grants, tax breaks, and work-study funds, which comes to about $69 billion. It spends another $107.4 billion on student loans.
    That means that with the money it already spends to make college affordable, the government could instead subsidize public college tuition, thereby making it free for all students. This would not just mean anyone could attend a higher education institution without worrying about cost, but it could incentivize private ones to reduce their costs in order to compete with the free option.
    It would also address the government’s current patchwork attempts to make college affordable, which isn’t working for many low- and middle-income families. Tax-based aid is mostly delivered to wealthy families, not the ones in need. Pell Grants, on the other hand, were cut in 2012, which meant students got less aid or kicked out altogether, after already covering the smallest percentage of college costs since the program was created. (House Republicans have had the program in their sights for even more cuts.)
    The cost of college has been rising dramatically in recent years, with the price tag for attending a public four-year university climbing 27 percent and the cost of a private education rising by 13. At the same time, more and more students have been taking on debt to help finance their educations, with total debt now past the $1 trillion mark. This puts the burden of rising costs on them, which can sometimes be heavy. One in eight of those student borrowers is now in default.
    There are other ways to address this growing problem. One would be to allow student debtors in dire straits to discharge their debts in bankruptcy, something that is nearly impossible to do now. Another, which could help stop the problem before it gets so bad, would be to automatically enroll children in college savings accounts at birth that get publicly matched, which would help families pay for college and would give low-income students better chances of enrolling.
    President Obama has proposed a “pay for performance” system to help rein in costs, which would create a ratings system that measured college’s performance and tie aid to how they perform, eventually incentivizing them to improve on metrics like graduation rates and the debt their graduates carry. But the evidence from similar state-based efforts is mixed on how big of an impact it can have.
    Interesting read. Important part bolded below:
    For the what the US already spends on making education affordable (loans/grants/education spending) it can make public universities tuition free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FNH View Post
    Would this apply to former college dropouts? Would this apply to former graduates seeking other training/certificates? Can I get 2 years of my loans forgiven? A step in the right direction, but I think the loan structure needs to change.
    Good question. I think for four-year university students 2 years should be forgiven if the first two were transferred from community college work.

    I personally think education should be fully subsidized if you're majoring in STEM and partially if anything else.

    Why the focus of the Republican idiots in charge right now is money and abortions instead of educating its citizens to be globally competitive is beyond me.

    We're quickly becoming a nation of servants to other countries'professionals, unless you're lucky enough to be a Wall Street Wizard.

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    In case people don't know, in-state tuition is usually only 1/3 or less of the total fees you have to pay every semester. Tuition wavers, free tuition, etc, all sound very, very nice but they are loaded concepts.

    When tuition is $2000 and fees are $9000, free tuition isn't really making things too affordable, is it?

    That's why grants / loans / waivers are more important than free tuition. Schools also have much more freedom to increase fees at will without much warning, for tuition, it is more strictly regulated.

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    I'm glad we're going down this path. Other countries embarrass us with their free universities and the way they treat education in general.

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    Super curious about what the requirements will be if this happens, since it says only for workers...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    In case people don't know, in-state tuition is usually only 1/3 or less of the total fees you have to pay every semester.
    ^

    At my local community colleges, which had very competitive costs at the time, the damned books cost more than the per unit for the classes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not Kuno View Post
    I'm glad we're going down this path. Other countries embarrass us with their free universities and the way they treat education in general.
    I'm just sad that it doesn't appear to be retroactive. Basically more of the same "fuck you people who are in debt but here you go future asses of America".

    I'm very happy that it has the potential to really jump start higher education.

    It's also not uncommon for students here to spend upwards of $900 on books, only to get $200 back at the end of the semester so they can be sold for $900 the next semester.

    We bought our books online for that very reason.

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    Books aren't even part of the fees that are REQUIRED to be paid every semester that far outweigh tuition costs.

    Per credit fee to be full time student at most schools is outright 2-3x what the total tuition is. Then non-waivable stuff like gym fee, academic building fee, lab fee, etc etc etc, add up to thousands.

  17. #17

    I just hope this doesn't turn into an 'Obamacare' type thing... where all the cards are thrown on the fact that it originated from a Republican plan and has Republican ideals, just to try to get some sort of "gotcha!" that doesn't work.

    A half-solution that has a poor execution and can be used as ammo may hurt/prolong us ever reaching the full, desired solution. Small steps in the right direction don't seem to work as well with this. I feel like the ACA did more to delay an eventual attempt of Universal Healthcare at this point. It's risky.

    That said, I'm definitely for it - just hope that it would be done right. Though, yeah, Congress as it is right now isn't likely to allow it.

  18. #18
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    I don't disagree with the idea, but there are far more fundamental problems with our education system. Given that the Bachelor's degree is already terribly overpriced, it's oversaturated, and is completely unnecessary for most jobs even in the middle class, I feel that the program might encourage more people to get 2+2 degrees instead of an education in something actually relevant and useful for their future.

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    I teach at the college level and I'm torn on this. Friend who also teaches (different political ideology, but we get along) and I had a discussion over this. A lot of you have brought up thoughts and concerns that I have:

    For the what the US already spends on making education affordable (loans/grants/education spending) it can make public universities tuition free.
    I'd rather they make the first two years of community college free than make it so that community college students take out insane amounts of loans for free money that they then have to either default on or pay back later.
    Both points I brought up to my friend, but with the second I wonder how simple that is. I think that in some cases (perhaps many), a person would pick a community college over a university. Where I grew up, though, I know many people wanted to leave the place so badly that they just said fuck it and went to school elsewhere.

    My larger concern is that while it's all great to increase access, I seriously hope they increase support services and are able to offer better academic advising and counseling to students. As it stands now, every school I've ever taught at has counseling and advising that is extremely taxed and overworked. Students who enter community college tend to be less prepared (this is not typecasting them all, obviously), so this is even more crucial.

    I'm also a little worried about how that's going to affect attitudes. I dunno, when people take these things as a given (education), the workers in the field tend to have to deal with a lot more shit. Look at the attitudes surrounding K-12 teachers. How you're regarded as a community college instructor versus a university instructor can be different, so. .

    Plus, it's always the annoying flip-flop between "We have too many students and not enough class space!" (yet we're resistant to doing some things online), then "Oh no! Enrollments are down".

    I'll be interested to see how this plays out.

  20. #20

    America’s student loan boycott: How 15 students took on the government — and just may win
    http://www.salon.com/2015/03/03/stud...ay_their_debt/

    15 former students at the embattled for-profit Corinthian Colleges have gone on strike, refusing to make their student loan payments. The debtors and their allies want to raise awareness of the crushing burden of student loans, and the misguided way we finance higher education in America.

    But less understood is that the debt strikers also have a very specific grievance, rooted in their college’s false promises and underhanded tactics. The Education Department is legally obligated – not at their discretion – to provide relief in such a situation. Beyond fighting a crooked for-profit college, the Corinthian 15 are taking on their own government as well. And their quest for accountability could reform an entire sector and improve conditions for all students.

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