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Ok, 89-8 = 81 vit, and gives +55 damage on Jumps.
Looking at previous Bluffalo data again..
Attack data:
Str 106 vs Vit 118 => fStr 0 or -1 (probably -1)
cRatio: 0.9961
crit cRatio: 1.9961
crit defense bonus: -14%
Base Jump damage:
fStr 0: 151 * (1 + 81/256) = 198
fStr -1: 150 * (1 + 81/256) = 197
Jump
Damage range: 388 - 551
Given that those are crits, factoring out the CDB: 452 - 641
Base pDif range: 1.565 - 2.49 (with 5% random), which is a high/low ratio of 1.59
Parsed values' high/low ratio is 1.418; implies some range shift
Implied pDif range: 2.2944 - 3.2584, or 2.2828 - 3.2419
Upper pDif value (~3.25) isn't valid. Need to consider other factors. We know it can't be +CAB because of the level 1 tests. Possible that it ignores CDB?
What would it look like if 388-551 range was at 0 CDB?
Implied pDif range: 1.9696 - 2.8015, or 1.9596 - 2.7873
cRatio:
Based on upper limit: 2.28-2.29 to 2.36-2.37
Based on lower limit: ~2.34
If it got the same +16.6% to attack as seen in the High Jump data, expected cRatio would be ~2.328
Tentative conclusion:
Jump and High Jump get +16.6% attack boost
Jump ignores Critical Defense Bonus
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Thread: Jump(s) testing
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2012-07-14 19:05 #21Chram
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2012-07-14 20:36 #22Chram
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Also, if the above conclusion is correct, that hints at other ideas for further testing.
We know the tier 1 augment was to force Jumps to critical; we can assume one of the other tiers is to ignore CDB (since it would be stupid to make a progressive anti-CDB augment for each tier of CDB; not that that gets ruled out, given that it's SE's programming...); and maybe one of the augments is the attack boost. So I'd look into whether Jumps seem to ignore other defensive effects, such as piercing damage resistance or immunity (eg: slimes, corses, ghosts, skeletons, elementals; Limbus immunity floor). That could account for 4 or 5 of the augment tiers, all together. Can't think of any other options offhand for other testing, though.
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2012-07-14 20:53 #23An exploitable mess of a card game
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Not to stomp on the party, but has there been any reason to believe that Jump doesn't inherently receive an attack bonus or even CDB? Jump doesn't grant TP, so I wouldn't be surprised to find jump ignoring those traits as well.
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2012-07-14 22:10 #24Old Merits
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Ok, so. Considering the recalculated numbers, is there still a need for more bluffalo data? Do we need to test Non-ryunohige jumps to check if the atk+/ignore CDB is an inherent jump trait or a Ryunohige effect?
Regarding dmg type resist tests, is there a target with known stats? I mean, I could go jump some skeletons or something, but I dunno how hard the jumps should be hitting them anyway. Would need melee dmg to compare? Other test conditions?
Is there a non-limbus piercing immune mob I could try?
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2012-07-14 22:56 #25An exploitable mess of a card game
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Can test weapon resistance using Limbus. If that doesn't work, check skeletons; will be very obvious (Just cap fSTR and provide VIT value for a easy calculation) using the current jump equation.
A test of jumps with a non-Ryunohige would be nice, but remember that they ALL need to critical hits, sooooo ya. lol.
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2012-07-14 23:32 #26Chram
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Yes.Do we need to test Non-ryunohige jumps to check if the atk+/ignore CDB is an inherent jump trait or a Ryunohige effect?
Non-Ryu doesn't need to be all crits, though that certainly makes it easier. Just need the details results, and will need more total samples.
Nachzehrer in KRT should allow you to get pretty close to capped fStr (they're only level 15-18), so it should be easy to test. Skels have heavy piercing resistance, so it should be obvious if it's ignoring the resistance even without knowing exact fStr.Regarding dmg type resist tests, is there a target with known stats? I mean, I could go jump some skeletons or something, but I dunno how hard the jumps should be hitting them anyway.
I can't think of one offhand, other than the Jailer with the cycling immunities.Is there a non-limbus piercing immune mob I could try?
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2012-07-14 23:44 #27An exploitable mess of a card game
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There's the NMs that require you to fight using certain damage types for the ASA(?) missions. Like the non-aggro weapons near the entrance of Ro Maeve.
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2012-07-15 07:14 #28Old Merits
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Piercing Resist test
Nachzerer
99DRG/DNC49
STR 106+78
VIT89+11
ATK 746
Without even calculating anything, I'd say that's way too low to be ignoring the piercing resistance.Code:Ability Damage Player Abil. Dmg Abs'd.Dmg Net Dmg Abil. % Hit/Miss A.Acc % A.Low/Hi A.Avg Martel 6196 0 6196 100.00 % 18/1 94.74 % 255/382 344.22 - High Jump 1342 0 1342 21.66 % 5/0 100.00 % 255/275 268.40 - Jump 4854 0 4854 78.34 % 13/1 92.86 % 355/382 373.38 Martel Ability High Jump + 255: 1 + 269: 1 +^ 270: 1 + 273: 1 + 275: 1 Jump 355: 1 362: 1 365: 1 366: 1 373: 1 376: 1 ^ 377: 1 378: 1 + 379: 2 + 381: 2 382: 1
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2012-07-15 07:15 #29An exploitable mess of a card game
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Definitely isn't ignoring piercing bonus.
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2012-07-15 07:21 #30Old Merits
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Regarding the Non-ryunohige Bluffalo test, do I need to mirror the Ryuno tests, stat wise?
I'd like to use a 1 dmg polearm, if that won't kill the test data. Mobs would last forever. If that's no good, then what kinda DMG rating is needed?
Also would like to use Crit atmas, Including Razed ruins. We can account for the crit dmg+ can't we? I should be able to get something like 95% crit rate, which will make this tests drastically shorter.
Then I'm just left with survivability issues, due to the lack of regen atmas. But if I don't need to have the same stats as the Ryu tests, I can just go /mage and HB between jumps.
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2012-07-15 12:23 #31
The higher your base damage, the higher the precision of your test. If all we're looking to falsify is "Jump/High Jump receive a native attack bonus", then you can use a fairly low base damage weapon and be fine.
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2012-07-19 02:02 #32Nidhogg
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I wouldn't be surprised if Jump/HJ received attack bonuses since they're job abilities. For example 'Steps' have an accuracy bonus on DNC main. While testing the attack bonus of Jumps, would it be possible to test AF feet as well since we don't have any conclusive evidence to verify the "Attack+10%" that's listed on either wiki? The augment Jump could be anything really; enhanced accuracy, even hate shed on vanilla Jump is a possibility, TP reduction, etc..
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2012-07-19 13:13 #33Old Merits
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I've thought about testing AF feet. And possibly a few other enhances jump pieces. But first I need to get around to tackling non-ryunohige jumps to check if the ATK bonus is from RYU or a natural traity of jump/high jump.
Hell, for that matter, I need to test spirit/soul for the same things. And with/without RYU. ugh.
Some one let me leech an exp pt on bluffalos... The pain in the ass part is maintaining time/keeping mobs EM.
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2012-07-21 22:21 #34Nidhogg
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You could not level the bluffalos up and simply level sync down+ to keep them EM and CFH on them to ensure they stay EM.
=Edit=
Although synching down could remove the special effect of a 99 Ryu since syncing usually removes any latent/hidden/bonus attributes or effect other than base stats/att/acc/hp/mp etc.
Could test server it up with a 90 Ryu, think they're EM at 90.
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2012-11-11 00:14 #35
Jump(s) testing
Martel and I spent some time with the current DRG 2-hour on the test server (Jump spaaam!) we think that these things are probably true:
1) Ryunohige does not give an accuracy bonus to Jumps.
2) Ryunohige does not give an Attack bonus at least to Soul Jump with a wyvern out
3) All types of jump seem to get get attack bonuses, but the attack bonuses are not equal across the jumps
4) Soul Jump's attack bonus is likely not obviously affected by AF3+2 legs.
Keep in mind that all of our conclusions had the new DRG 2-hour up. SE is notoriously bad about telling us the effects of abilities, traits, whatever, so it could be that this 2-hour enhances jumps somehow other than their recast.
Method:
We used three characters all with the same major pieces of equipment and with the same relevant stats, though this equipment changed depending what test we were doing.
We fought the VWNM Abununnu, a demon whose TP moves are all blocked by Fanatic's and who isn't far from the Tav OP. We'd pop him, use Fanatic's, use the DRG 2-hour, and spam Jumps on him until the 2-hour wore off (30 seconds). This assumes that the VWNM levels are constant, but I'm pretty sure they are. At least, I'm sure that no VWNM I've ever fought has variable INT. Our tests seem to confirm this.
1) Ryunohige does not give an accuracy bonus to Jumps.
Spoiler: show
2) Ryunohige does not give an attack bonus to Soul Jump
Spoiler: show
3) All types of jump seem to get get attack bonuses, but the attack bonuses are not equal across the jumps
Spoiler: show
4) AF3+2 legs do not enhance Soul Jump's Attack bonus
Spoiler: show
5ish) We also tested whether or not High Jump got a bigger attack bonus if we used a wyvern with it like Soul Jump. It doesn't.
So we still don't know what Ryunohige is doing other than forcing High Jump/Jump to crit. We also don't know why these results conflict with the previous work. It is what it is!
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2012-11-11 10:31 #36Nidhogg
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I think it was stated a long time ago that Jumps had an Attack Bonus, back on Alla circa 2003 and that the Attack Bonus didn't carry over when /DRG. According to the JP wiki, Spirit Surge gives ~Acc+50 and it makes Jumps 100% hit rate, so combining SP2 with Spirit Surge may end up being a powerful combo. Ryi's jump bonuses probably reduce enmity on jumps since it's probably not acc/att/crit. Also I thought pre-level cap right before Abyssea came out, they ninja patched Jump so that when Jump crits it played the Spirit Jump animation(before Spirit Jump was even released). Is this still the case? I tried some SA+Jumps the other day and it still plays the generic animation. I remember people saying that crit Jumps had the different sound effect and a green flash...but I guess but after they released Spirit Jump they may have removed it?
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2012-11-23 15:09 #37
Martel did some more testing today:
1) Jump attack bonus tests against EM Bluffalo with 579 Attack, 146 STR, and 136 VIT
255 base damage - Gungnir : 506~767 damage
243 base damage - Ryunohige : 604~847 damage
It appears that we were mistaken before about Jump ignoring crit defense bonus. Now it is working properly:
Predicted Crit wRatio: 2.12
Calculated Gungnir Crit wRatio: 2.09 to 2.13 (including 14% crit defense bonus) <--- No native attack boost
Calculated Ryunohige Crit wRatio: 2.49 to 2.52 (including 14% crit defense bonus) <--- 33% to 36% attack boost (1.49/1.12, etc.).
Given their listing of "Augments Jump +35" on the level 99 R/M/E weapon release post on the official forums, I think it's a safe bet that this is a /256 approximation of a 35% attack boost.
2) Drachen Greaves +1 and Skanda Boots:
* Martel went out with the same stats as the last post against our Demon friend and found a range of 237~437 for Jump with 99 Ryunohige, which limits his Ratio down to 1.55~1.57 for those conditions. We now know that Ryunohige gives a 35% attack boost to Jump, so that would make his real Ratio approximately 1.148~1.163
* He then found about a 268~467 range for Skanda boots (471~466) and Drachen Greaves +1 (268~467), which works out to 1.7~1.73 Ratio using Motenten's formlas. These do not give a base damage boost or a simple multiplier, which he has verified in the past against low level monsters. Dividing by the previously determined Ratios, this gives a multiplier range from 1.462~1.507x Attack. 0.35 of that is from Ryunohige, so the remaining 11~15% is likely from Drachen Greaves/Skanda Boots. Thus, they give a 15% attack multiplier. As I said just in the last sentence, it could be between 11 and 15% but it seems likely to me that SE chose the low-side of /256 values that we'd call 35% and 15% when actually coding the equipment. As such, I'll just call it 15%.
These results have not been generalized to other forms of Jump yet.
Here are the PMs:
Spoiler: show
Spoiler: show
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2012-11-23 15:53 #38
More tests from Martel: High Jump has no native attack multiplier and Ryunohige's jump enhancement doesn't affect its Attack (though it does force it to critical hit).
Force crit High Jumps with the same stats:
Gungnir - 167 BD : 332~497 damage
Ryunohige - 159 BD : 319~472 damage
472/159 = 2.06 min
319/159 = 2.15 max
This hovers right around the anticipated 2.12 ratio, so there's probably no enhancement or penalty.
Spoiler: show
Going back through the previous data, Spirit Jump appears to get a 25% Attack boost with Wyvern out while Soul gets +50%. This assumes that neither are affected by Ryunohige, which is probably accurate at this point.
Edit: Cair also says that Ryunohige doesn't affect High Jump enmity loss.
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2012-11-23 17:37 #39
Another Marteltest, this time for Spirit Jump!
Gungnir - 167 BD : 397~566 damage with Wyvern :: (2.407~2.426 Ratio) :: 25%~27% multiplier
Gungnir - 167 BD : 358~494 damage without Wyvern :: (2.053~2.2511 Ratio) :: Large range that includes no modifier (2.12)
Ryunohige - 159 BD : 324~481 damage without Wyvern :: (2.11~2.17 Ratio) :: Includes no modifier (2.12)
So it looks like, in addition to forcing a critical hit, having a wyvern present gives Spirit Jump a 25% Attack bonus.
Spoiler: show
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2012-11-23 18:31 #40Nidhogg
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Test to see if Lancer Cuissots+2 increase that attack bonus? Probably what they'd do if anything unless they have increased -enmity. It's nice that those Jumps have attack bonuses...although on high level mobs it doesn't *seem* like they do...level correction ftl
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Originally Posted by Martel
