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Thread: SoA Enmity Retesting     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #41
    Old Merits
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    There's just no way I can test for the same damage 3 times. I don't have anything that can hit hard enough for static dmg. Atonement is about the best it'd get, but I have to build enough hate for it to hurt first, then catch Ard's hate up. -.-

    Usually, I even martel and ard's hate out, then start tests from there. I've caught a lot of potential issues right at the start like this. A missed piece of enmity +/-, etc. So, I have ard pull with a 1 CE action, then martel does flash, enlight, cure for 0. at this point both are at 201 CE. and I check to make sure we're even by casting 0 CE actions and making sure the mob stays on the last to cast.

    And whenever a given test is completed I can just test that we're even again, then start a new one without having to pull again.

    The biggest issues I run into, are;

    Losing count while spamming 1 CE spells. I could really use some 5 and 10 CE actions... I suppose I could make a 10 CE action via -50 enmity gear. But I'd have to start macroing gear for that. Time to make a whole lua file for enmity testing sets! ugh....
    and Taking dmg. Either cause phalanx wore while I was spamming on ard, freak crits, or ard going over by too much SS breaking before martel pulls it back.

    Quantifying dmg taken enmity loss would do a great deal to help. Then I could simply note the dmg taken, and my max HP, and continue the test. And then factor in the enmity lost afterwards.

  2. #42
    Ridill
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    You don't have any mage or ranged jobs leveled? At the very least you could use Holy 2 worst comes to worst for higher dmg use DE with it and factor out the 50%. Or possibly /run and use lunge

    Also my point on starting over wasn't that you couldn't test you were even after all the entire test is about making each other even it was the whole adding another set of steps with another character and another set of calculations. ie instead of just adding up what 1 character got you add up what it got and what the other got and subtracting. Sounds simple enough but it makes losing count or messing up that much easier. Oh and it also avoids that overshoot too much breaks stoneskin problem since you would be overshooting by exactly 1 each time

  3. #43
    Old Odin
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    @martel: wouldnt lunge or the new mini lunge be enough static damage? assumeing we get the base CE and VE of the ability and then calculate damage CE from there? but yeah magic or ranged attacks would work easiest

  4. #44
    Ridill
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    I can't speak for swipe since it's new but yes lunge was normal dmg emnity. Base dmg from just cap merited skill would be 880 pld can actuallly get a bit of mab now so could definitely crank it up high enough to make rounding errors neglible

  5. #45
    Ridill
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    AM2 is now 80 CE 320 VE. Pretty nice if the cast time and recast and mp cost weren't so disproportionate with the dmg compared to say um like all other nukes lol

  6. #46
    Relic Shield
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    Decoy Shot is anyone in alliance. Otherwise, the paladins in our DM2 and Delve 2.0 wouldn't be able to keep hate.

  7. #47
    Ridill
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    Some preliminary testing on crusade. Flash with it up was 234 so +30 enmity from that. Put on +22 from gear and it jumped to 273 so yep definitely counts as gear enmity. The spell itself has 0 CE and really low VE like 20 or less possibly 0 not enough for me to feel like bothering to figure out right now.

    Possible cap raising will have to wait till later when I can setup better test but I doubt it given everything about it. Still +30 enmity for 5 minutes would be pretty nice if +enmity mattered much. Shame it's gear too

  8. #48
    Old Odin
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    Oooh so it wasn't just an impression that Crusade was giving more than +10. There was a noticeable difference you could see even without measuring stuff, appearently it wasn't just my bias.
    Crusade definitely makes a difference in recovering hate after an enmity reset or after you lost hate.
    It's a nice little tool I guess, but alone it's nowhere close to solve the current issues Tanks have in keeping hate.
    (I'm still hoping more overhauls to the enmity system are coming).

    I still think Devs are going the wrong approach with these things though.
    Stuff like Crusade and other similar things should be perma active, passive traits. Not a dispellable buff which you need to cast and remember to keep up every 5 minutes.
    I could understand the issue with NIN since the job can cover two roles (Tank and DD) but this shouldn't really be an issue for RUN and PLD.
    Name me another MMO where this happens please.

    In every other MMO I played (and I played a lot) all the basic tools are built-in. You can do a better or worse job according to your player skills and your gear of course.

  9. #49
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    SE's PLD adjustment for the last patch gave Shield Bash 450 CE, Rampart 320 CE (per target), and Palisade 900 CE. The hate cap has never been so close!

    Also, using Sentinel -> Palisade with 10/10 Sentinel JPs and +55 Enmity in gear gave me 2524 Enmity, which is precisely floor(900*2.55*1.1).

    Re-checking Sentinel alone reveals that it gives 0 CE on activation. So Sentinel JPs apply in a separate step.


    Divine Emblem + Sentinel + Flash = 576 Enmity

    180*2*1.6 = 576, so Divine Emblem's boost and Sentinel's Job Point enhancement are additive.

  10. #50
    Old Odin
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    So what's the cap of +enmity from gear? I remember them changing something lately.
    Is it still +100 from gear? Do Crusade and similar spells get counted into this cap or separately?

  11. #51
    Ridill
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    It was changed to 200 awhile back.

    As far as has been tested pretty much every enmity modifier counts as gear except weird traits like tranquil heart, sentinel jps (and probably other jps since they all kind of act like merited traits) and a couple of weird jas that modify the enmity of a single action a single action like divine emblem and the sch merit ones.

  12. #52
    Old Odin
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    Uh... I'm having issues getting above 95 on RUN (125 with Crusade), and that's by filling practically all slots, which comes at the sacrifice of midcasting with Fastcast, not sure if I want to do that.

  13. #53
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    The cap is now really only relevant with Sentinel up.

  14. #54
    Ridill
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    Yeah that's why when they said they were doing it most people were like ok what good will that do

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Yeah that's why when they said they were doing it most people were like ok what good will that do
    The NEW cap is only relevant with sentinel up. The OLD cap was actually limiting to a paladin at the time, iirc(it's been awhile.) Last time I played, PLD could hit like +160 enmity without sentinel. I'd call that that extra +60 fairly nice.

    Although, if they hadn't made the CE/VE cap and dmg enmity changes then the enmity gear cap change really wouldn't have mattered at all.

  16. #56
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    This is not really SOA related, but enmity testing it certainly is.

    I was reading a post about sub jobs for RUN over on AH, and noticed that the /DRK entry didn't include Absorb-TP or aspir. So I thought maybe he just didn't know about them. As I was writing up a post on it, I wanted to check the current cast time on Absorb-TP, since I know it's way faster than it used to be now.

    So I look up absorb TP on BGwiki, and it has the CE/VE for it at 1/640. The hell? I know that's not right. It's 320/320, has been since Kaeko's testing. But since I like to verify things... First I looked up the spell enmity nerf.

    April 30 2013 JST Version Update
    Quote Originally Posted by SE
    The amount of static enmity accrued by using the following spells and abilities has been reduced:
    Black Magic
    Poison / Poison II / Poisonga / Bio / Bio II / Bio III / Burn / Frost /
    Choke / Rasp / Shock / Drown / Retrace / Blaze Spikes / Ice Spikes /
    Shock Spikes / Sleep / Sleep II / Blind / Blind II / Break / Breakga /
    Bind / Dispel / Absorb / Absorb-DEX / Absorb-VIT / Absorb-AGI /
    Absorb-INT / Absorb-MND / Absorb-CHR / Absorb-ACC / Absorb-Attri / Endark /
    Klimaform
    Like I recalled, I don't see Absorb-TP on that list.

    Still, maybe I missed an update. Re-testing.

    Did tests for both CE and VE. TLDR Absorb-TP is 320CE/320VE, and the BGwiki entry has been wrong, since... forever.

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