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Thread: SoA Enmity Retesting     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #1
    Ridill
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    Well in light of the cure enmity changes thought I'd take the time to necro and start figuring them out. Seems alot of people seem to think alot of things are adding more which so far testing doesn't seem to be true. VE decay hasn't changed so lets focus on what SE said they would change.

    So starting with cures. I went to and cured a lvl 99 for 568 and that only got me 133 CE. That gives me a CE mod of .234. Or assuming it's still 40/X... 40/170. While curing a lvl 95 for 568 got me 142 CE which would be a CE mod of 40/160-161

    Now looking back at kanicans tables and testing they never really wrote exact equations for post lvl 75 cure enmity and I never really thought to test it before. But going by the pattern of the last few lvls it should of been 40/67 and 40/69 respectively. So looks more like 41% of previous but cure one changed every several lvls so who knows now.

    Edit: same 568 cure on lvl 99 got me 934 TE. Take away the 133 CE leaves me with 801 VE. VE was always 240/xx.... and 240/170*568 =801 so looks like the ce/ve relationship the same. Not going to bother with the 95 since I doubt anyone cares about non 99 emnity.

    So in summary new CE and VE mods are 40/170 and 240/170 respectively (or at least something close enough to hit those points)

  2. #2
    BG Content
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    You did this on Paladin or some other job that doesn't have Tranquil Heart, right?

  3. #3
    Hydra
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    am i reading things wrong or did the enmity from cure increase rather than decrease from what they claimed o.O

  4. #4
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    You did this on Paladin or some other job that doesn't have Tranquil Heart, right?
    Of course. Hence why the horribly low c4s . Tried doing it on blm for staff and nares bonus till I released C3 sucks and pld main is the only way to get c4 withough tranquil heart... not looking forward to dealing with that for c5 though

  5. #5
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
    am i reading things wrong or did the enmity from cure increase rather than decrease from what they claimed o.O
    You're reading it wrong. Assuming the pattern kaeko mapped out stayed the same this is about 58% less enmity. However looking back at there stuff makes it looks like it changes now and then annoyingly so not sure exactly what it was before at 99. Needless to say you'd need to cure for like 850 to just keep hate off the puller regardless of what it pulls with lol

  6. #6
    Hydra
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    Ah okay good to know, that matches SE's claims of reducing enmity on HP cured.

    The only weird thing is people claiming that their whm has pulled hate from cures even after the DDs do a few weaponskills, but there are so many factors like no one provoking, people using jas before the fight rather than during, whms casting enhancing magic, (which some seem to notice as the main culprit) and hell maybe even enmity merits/gear. Going off all that, I figure best way to start a fight against a NM is to just have a war or /war open with provoke and war. The whm shouldn't ever be getting hate unless cures out weigh damage dealt. Hell if gets to that point, maybe DDs will have to spam their JAs once they get enmity on the mob rather than before in non-zerging scenarios.

  7. #7
    Ridill
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    Yeah they also lower enmity from dmg too. I'll be working on trying to remap that too. But yeah you bring up the heart of the problem. Current fighting just assumes if you got someone bashing face they have hate regardless of how dmg you take or how much the whm is spamming cares and forgot all the things we used to do to keep hate or limit how much we'd get. Definitely going to make dual boxing a lot harder lol

  8. #8
    Ridill
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    So speaking of cure V and VI since it's whm only gotta deal with tranquil heart.. since there is almost no info on how it works at lower lvls I had to play with it some. Did a 726 cure IV at 307 skill given my previous work I should've gotten 170 CE instead I got 153. That turns out to be exactly -10% (wonder if it is like a min cap for the ability?).

    Then did cure VI. Normal cure VI assuming they didn't change it is 400 -10% would be 360... and I got exactly 360 yays. Got 1080 TE for it too... which means the 800 is still right and effected by TH. So think it's safe to say at my current skill lvl tranquil heart is -10% and that cure VI is unchanged.

    For Cure V I got 270 CE which if you do the math 300-301 without TH probably 300. For TE I get 810 factor out the TH that's 900 or 600 for VE. So looks like they just looped off 100 CE and VE... so lazy lol.

  9. #9
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    Anybody ever tested if Adventurer's Dirge and Animus: Minuo count over the -50 Enmity cap or if they allow you to go over it?
    As far as I know JAs (like SCH merit stratagems) stack perfectly over that cap, was just wondering about those spells

  10. #10
    Ridill
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    Starting to retest some stuff to at the very least re-establish stuff to test enmity with. Paeon(2) went from 20CE/80VE to 20CE/40VE I'd assume they changed all the same line the same but lvl 30 brd lol.

    Sadly threnodies and foe requiem went from 100CE/240VE to 20 CE/140VE.

    Enchanting etude went from 160CE/160VE to 20CE/80VE

    Foe Lullaby went from 240CE/0VE to 20CE/0VE

    Given that prior to the update all spells fell under 1 of those 4 sets of emnity values and how some did that they probably just changed ones of certain values to all the same new values. If anyone wants to verify the other brd spells I'd just go with that assumption.... Personally just too lazy to do them all lol. If anyone wants to test other stuff as well feel free though all brd spells having 20CE is going to make it take longer uggg

  11. #11
    Ridill
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    All right time to test the spells they increased.

    Anyways reprisal according to kanican was 1CE 80VE it actually seems to have 0 CE now (actually almost thinking it did before and they confused the last action thing...)... but tested it a few times definitely 0. Idk maybe they already made it so things can be 0. Anyways 640 VE so nice little bump


    Foil was 80 CE, 240 VE. Now it's 320 CE, 880 VE... which is a really odd number I know but there it is. Pretty nice hate for a spell now. Shame run only lol

  12. #12
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    I haven't seen anything about this so I'm going to pose the question here. I've seen the question asked numerous times, but no answer; I'm hoping an answer already exists with testing (not eyeballing) basis, if not I can try it out myself.

    Decoy Shot - is it party only, or can the target "party member" (per ability description) also be an alliance member? I can't think of any ability or spell that specifies "party member" but also applies to alliance members (except for waltzes which may still have their old description but were modified after addition), so without any additional information my assumption would be party only.

  13. #13
    Old Odin
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    Random fact: Tupsimatis -20 enmity applies seperatly (multiplacitiv) to enmity and is not subjecto to the gear enmity cap.

    Examples: (Spell CE) x (1-gear enmity) x (1- Tupsimatiy Enmity)

  14. #14
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    Nice. I've always wondered about that. So this means that you can get -76% Enmity on Addendum spells, right?

  15. #15
    Old Odin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Nice. I've always wondered about that. So this means that you can get -76% Enmity on Addendum spells, right?
    if you are talking about the empy body +2, no idea how its enmity works. Guess its calculated the same way so with -50 enmity it should be 0.5 (-50 enmity)x0.8 (body)x0.8 (mythic)= 0.32 so 68 enmity reduction or if its 0.5 x 0.6= 0.30, 70 enmity reduction. guess it all depends how the body is calculated in, either seperate like tupsimati, or together WITH tupsimati.

    Does animus minuo count seperatly too as BG wiki sugjest that enmity from ability and traits is calculated differently (as in seperately)

    I will try this with -40 enmity and flash i should get either hate if its 0.6 (as in tupsi and body are counted together) or seperate if itx 0.8 and 0.8


    EDIT:
    so Flash

    180CE x 0.6 (gear) x 0.8 x 0.8 x 3 (times used= = 207.36 CE generated

    should end up with hate after 3 flashes

    or

    180 CE x 0.6 (gear) x 0.6 (tupsimati and empy body counted together) x3 (times used) = 194.4 CE generated

    should NOT end up with hate after 3 flashes


    Test:
    3 flashes cast -----> ended up with hate which means that the empy body +2 is calculated seperatly, as in: CE x (1-Enmity gear) x0.8 (tupsimatie) x0.8 (empy body +2 with addendum)


    narrowing it down with -42 enmity in gear, this should give me exactly 200.5 CE if this is true

    got hate after 3 flashes with -42 enmity from my mule


    proceeded to try to get hate with mule by useing 2 abilitys or cures.... somethign is borked, the mob would switch for an instant but then be glued on my tupsimati main again. Did SE eliminate all CE alltogether from abilitys and cure 1 and buffs etc) Did cast like 10 cure 1s with my mule, buffed my main with haste and phalanx. the mob would only switch for 1 split second to my mule and then go right back to my tupsimati main, this is strange. mob doesnt even react to cures.


    ugh I am casting various shit on the mob now dispel silence slow... my mule is only getting hate for 1 sec and then the mob proceeds to go again for my main

    i should have long gotten hate on my mule if every ability/spell generates at least 1 CE... something is off, i tried now all self buffs and debuffs (ecxept for flash of course), there is no way in turning the mob towards my mule permanently, only for 1 split second.

  16. #16
    Old Odin
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    well shit it seems SE has eliminated any CE from abilitys that usually make no enmity and has eliminated all CE from spells as slow para dispel, protect shell cures etc. i cant get hate back on the mule no matter how much I spam shit. This was probably done during the pet CE fiasco that SMNs whined about after the initial enmity update they made.

    scrap what I said Flash is not an addendum spell! The test is invalid, and there is no way to test this The wording on BG wiki specifially says Addendum Spells for the empy body. as in i would need to use Dispel to test this, or erase or somethign retarded like that.

  17. #17
    Old Merits
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    Regarding your issue with dispel earlier. Dispel is 1 CE. Got nerfed a long time ago. So getting hate off a puller with dispel would take 201 casts.

    I've also had issue with cures for 0. But only when I'm on a job that has tranquil heart(which is most of the jobs that CAN cure.) I wondered if it wasn't doing some weird rounding, and flooring the 1 CE to 0.

    Also, I did a quick test to verify pull enmity, and it is still 200 CE.

    The only thing I don't get is why you didn't need a 1 CE action to keep hate on the atinian/-50 enmity test... you should have hit 200 CE exactly, and the puller should have been 201. So unless the pull action used has 0 CE... I dunno what's going on...

    Then again, reprisal tested out a 0 CE awhile back, so we know it's possible at least. There might be a need to verify the values of any spells being used in testing.

  18. #18
    Old Odin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martel View Post
    Regarding your issue with dispel earlier. Dispel is 1 CE. Got nerfed a long time ago. So getting hate off a puller with dispel would take 201 casts.

    I've also had issue with cures for 0. But only when I'm on a job that has tranquil heart(which is most of the jobs that CAN cure.) I wondered if it wasn't doing some weird rounding, and flooring the 1 CE to 0.

    Also, I did a quick test to verify pull enmity, and it is still 200 CE.

    The only thing I don't get is why you didn't need a 1 CE action to keep hate on the atinian/-50 enmity test... you should have hit 200 CE exactly, and the puller should have been 201. So unless the pull action used has 0 CE... I dunno what's going on...

    Then again, reprisal tested out a 0 CE awhile back, so we know it's possible at least. There might be a need to verify the values of any spells being used in testing.
    you mean the one where I went /brd with carol? I was surprised too, why I didnt need 1 CE to get hate after the 10th cast, since I did hit 200 CE exactly. and i had -54 enmity geared, just to eliminate any rounding numbers in gear or so. That was definitly strange

    EDIT: just noticed my mule had -1 Enmity earring on which explains why the /brd test ended with me not needing any action to do after the 10th carol to keep hate. which means my mule was sitting at 198 CE (-1 enmity for earring)

  19. #19
    Old Odin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martel View Post
    yeah, that's the one. was strange.

    specifically, what action did the mule pull with for that test? doing some tests to verify enmity values.
    ok went and redid the /brd test with -50 enmity and atinian, this time makeing sure that I would have no -enmity on my mule.

    after 10 carols... used 1 stratagem, no dice, mob still facing mule, used various cures, no dice, used addendum white, used all stratagems, casted reraise 3 on me, casted -na spells, buffs on me.

    Rechecked my mule if there wasnt any enmity + gear on. nothing

    proceeded to switch into dark arts and dark addendum, casted dispel

    couldnt get hate. so yeah SE has eliminated the mininum of 1 CE it seems

    proceeded to cast an 11th carol... hate on me

    proceeded to cast all -ra spells on my mule bareara, barstonra etc cycled through the spells 4 times which should give 24 CE, if each spell would give 1 CE.

    no hate change, hate still on my main

    casted cura on my rdm/whm mule -----> hate on mule


    seems like alot of spells ability have lost their minimum 1 CE, cura seems to have a fixed CE, my mule should be at 250 CE with cura, my main at 220 with 11 carols

    2 carols should give me hate back

    ----> needed 4 carols: main at 300 CE and mule is somewhere between 280 and 300 CE, which indicates that cura has more then 50 CE (as listed on bgwiki)

    ----> casted again cura on mule, got hate back again

    ----> needed again 4 carols on main to get hate back sitting at 380 CE

    -----> cura seems to give around 80-90 CE, probably 85 or so (tranquile heart not considered of rdm mule)

    conclusion: lots of abilitys and spells (even offensiv debuff spells and cures) seem to have lost their minimum 1 CE cost. with a few exeption (Cura for example).

  20. #20
    Old Odin
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    Animus minou test:

    without animus minou and - 50 enmity gear

    needed 11 carols (hitting both chars) to surpass the 200 CE initial pull of mule:

    calculation: per cast is 40 CE since hitting both chars

    40CE x 0.5 (gear enmity) x 11 times used = 220 CE total

    assuming animus minuo surpasses the cap and is calculated seperatly:

    40CE x0.5 (gear enmity) x 0.9 (animus) x 11 times = 198 total CE

    proceeded to cast carols 11 times with animus minuo up -----> got constant hate


    Conclusion Animus minuo Does NOT bypass the enmity cap and is NOT calculated seperatly.

    Assumption: Animus Augeo doesn bypass the +100 enmity cap either.

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