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  1. #1081
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draylo View Post
    Randomly saw this on my youtube feed, no idea who it is but this kind of thinking is horrid. I bet a lot of people think like this too:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbfQ...outu.be&t=3m5s

    Makes no sense, I don't even wish that on XIV and I barely play that.
    The game is on its limbs.

  2. #1082
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    Uh what does that have to do with my post?

  3. #1083
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draylo View Post
    Uh what does that have to do with my post?
    Random thing the guy said, I assume he meant "on its last limbs" but he skipped the "last" part and just said "on its limbs"

    I...nevermind.

  4. #1084
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    Wasnt XI story a lot of bs fetch quest as well? And to make it worse it was vague as hell as to where to go? Not saying XIV's story is amazing but I dont think XI was all epic fight after epic fight

  5. #1085
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    At least up to CoP it was pretty fucking epic, even if I agree text was a bit too vague at times, and cut-scene direction was of course much less elaborated than what we've seen in the following expansions (they really improved over time)

  6. #1086
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deader2818 View Post
    Wasnt XI story a lot of bs fetch quest as well? And to make it worse it was vague as hell as to where to go? Not saying XIV's story is amazing but I dont think XI was all epic fight after epic fight
    Most of that was people spamming enter. I mean, some cutscenes would literally say "Meet me in Boneyard Gully", "Come to Sealords Den, I have a surprise for you", and then people in party chat would be "ok where to next"

  7. #1087
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deader2818 View Post
    Wasnt XI story a lot of bs fetch quest as well? And to make it worse it was vague as hell as to where to go? Not saying XIV's story is amazing but I dont think XI was all epic fight after epic fight
    Missions for the most part were pretty straight forward IMO. Occasionally they'd be a "find me this powerful object" with nothing else of note given. That was mostly reserved for side quests though. That was the biggest use (besides entertainment) to the Brady guide early on. Thank god for Wikis lol.

  8. #1088
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    Quote Originally Posted by urat View Post
    Random thing the guy said, I assume he meant "on its last limbs" but he skipped the "last" part and just said "on its limbs"

    I...nevermind.
    I set the video to a specific point. He said he wanted the game to die because he didn't have time to play it and would feel left behind if they kept updating it.

  9. #1089
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seha View Post
    XIV so far has been setting foundations for its story. The real evaluation starts with Heavensward, if that story doesn't prove to be something more than what it's been so far then...yeah, throw tomatoes at SE all you want.

    Anyway I'm always of the opinion that there's no reason to shoot something down before witnessing it. So let's hope for the best there too.
    Yoshida has already stated it's the same format as 2.x. That alone means not to expect much. YAAAAAAAY FLYING! WHOOOOOOOO!

    Cool. Let's fix glaring issues with the game. The biggest problem is the guy loves to create false hype by not saying shit. At least with XI when we were sparse for info we knew WHAT was coming and the GENERAL idea.With HW we don't really know anything besides names and "this is/isn't a raid. Oh btw a MAJOR STAT REEVALUATION IS COMING...YOU DON'T NEED TO KNOW HOW BECAUSE ECONOMY...oh and BLM may have a completely different play style..but you don't need to know how. By the way we scrapped some ideas of jobs, here's what we scrapped."

    ^ This is why it's easy for people to shoot things down or be pessimistic. So the fuck what if Quicktongue/arm shoots to 3.4m, how does that prevent you from telling us info to ACTUALLY get us hyped instead of hyping us on WHAT IFs? This was 2.0's biggest problem, everyone was hyped because 1.x was amazing for what it was and what it could become..then 2.0 slammed us and it was this generic piece of shit. Not to say it was a failure or anything..but going from something that felt like SE made it (given DQX and FFXI) to something that felt like a bunch of Blizzard interns made it was kinda...eh.

    Like seriously, you're not going to lose sales telling us how the hell the 3 jobs work, what their skills are and shit just a general god damn overview like they did with BLU/COR/PUP/SCH/DNC/GEO/RUN. The biggest mystery we had to Blue Mage was how were we going to learn the spells, especially buff/healing when legacy wise,blue mage either had to defend or be hit with it and very few instances of any other, e.g Quina.

    With XIV, the fact they're doing DRK as a tank for the sake of being different, why not...give more info about that? We all know it's just a bunch of 1.x Thaumaturge skills being readded but still.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deader2818 View Post
    Wasnt XI story a lot of bs fetch quest as well? And to make it worse it was vague as hell as to where to go? Not saying XIV's story is amazing but I dont think XI was all epic fight after epic fight
    As someone said, a lot of this were people spamming enter. NPCs literally told you where to go or give you a general direction. This is how the Wiki even gets populated, even by dat miners, which parsed dialog tables to find the info.

    Dialog tables that the NPCs pull from.

    The NPCs you talk to.

    That gives you the quest.

    XI had it's share of fetch quests, but I prefer the way it was done in XI because it wasn't forced on you to prolong a story arc. Why in gods name am I fetching your motherfucking laundry while I'm trying to stop Ultima Weapon from raping all of eorzea and whatever other land they decide to go to? Stuff like that is normally random shitty quests you find on your way to a main quest in other MMOs.

    "I think I'll go from this city to the next big city since thats where the MQs are...oh look this random tiny village has quests in it, maybe I should do some!"

    With XIV, SE forced side quests into the main quest, which is part of why it was just so...ugh. It was longer than it should have been. I know they did it because the QA team said there were a lack of quests but goodness. Pretty much every developer or anyone who does anything creative says being different for the sake of different isn't good, that's all Yoshida has been doing, he's doing his best to avoid "how XI did x" for the sake of it since even doing "standard gameplay" still feels halfassed at times.

    I will say though, the sidequests in XI that could potentially spit out a random item for you to find is when it got vague as hell, but they got SO much better about it as the game went on.

  10. #1090

    I think they also shoehorned all the fetch quests into main scenario progression to basically mean you ended up with a level 50 by the point you were at the level 50 content - they wanted to get everyone through the grinding phase on at least one job with minimal... well... grind. The sylphland stint can go die in a fiery pit of hell though, be raised and the go die a bit more. Bloody pain in the arse if you didn't log on the second after a patch and people were bugging you to go do X fight or whatever and you knew you had a good 2 hours of going to fetch random people's dry cleaning before you could join in.

    At various points when new content got released in XI though the best way to progress was often to find one of the "usual suspect" JP crowd and stalk them around the world.

  11. #1091
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    Yeah main scenario really has too much watering down with useless and anticlimatic quests.
    The strange part is that at least one section of the Main Story that they could have easily watered down, feels "too fast". I'm talking about the last part of the original 2.0 storyline, where you defeat Van Baelsar, Nero Tol Scaevola and the remaining other legati.
    It all flowed... so fast. Don't you wish those guys could have received a bit more of a spotlight before disappearing so fast? Well Nero didn't disappear completely given his role in Crystal Tower, but I guess you get what I mean.

    I feel all that final part of the plot could have been easily watered down yet they didn't, but instead they provided a plethora of other useless things that really feel out of place and are particularly anticlimatic given the situations your character (and all of Eorzea) is facing.



    Also I have similar feelings with Heavensward.
    I dunno why but it's the most antihyped MMO expansion I've ever had in my life so far.
    We don't know anything other than mostly useless generic stuff that you could read behind the box of a game.
    I get this feeling like Yoshida says "aaah!" and everybody reacts "OMG OMG OMG OMG HE SAID AAAH! YOU GOT IT GUYS?! AAAH!!!!" and I'm left wondering why everybody is so incredibly excited when he didn't really say anything meaningful.
    I'm generalizing of course, it hasn't always been like that, but mostly yes, to my eyes at least.

    In addition to that, I feel that 2.0 still had a few (many?) things that felt "out of place" given the new direction taken by the game. They just didn't feel right, like remnants of the past.
    Given the huge amount of work they had to do for 2.0 I considered it acceptable that they didn't manage to find time to fix them, thinking "they will fix them during the first expansion". Yet it seems Heavensward, as far as what we've been told so far (which isn't much) will "just" be a more of the same, rather than something also providing big structural change to the game.
    (yes I'm talking about the Class/Job thing, and a few others)
    It's not like they are these HUUUUUUGE issues troubling the game in the end, but at the same time Heavensward feels more like a very very very very big patch rather than what I'd normally be expecting from a MMO expansion (this is an hyperbole, but I hope you get what I mean)

  12. #1092
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    Also, another even more personal bias, while the new jobs kinda excite me, it still kinda leaves a sour taste in my mouth that DRK is going to be forced into a tank rather than the typical "Heavy DD that sacrifices health for huge damage" we came to know.
    And that the 2 new classes we're getting, while cool in concept, doesn't seem particularly iconic.
    There are so many very very very typical and iconic FF jobs that have been left out, yet they bother to release 2 new jobs and no trace of those.
    Ungh... it's cool, but it really does leave a sour taste in my mouth.

    I had similar feelings in the original FFXIV where classes all had strange names and were a mixture of the iconic FF jobs.

  13. #1093
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    Yoshida is a very good seller and that's still an important trait. It's no wonder he just got another promotion only 2 years after the last one.

  14. #1094
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  15. #1095

    All the mousse in the world can't distract me from that JP dentistry....

  16. #1096
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    Shadowknight which is basically dark knight in everquest online adventures was a tank. Maybe they are looking beyond FFXI for inspiration. I barely played 14 so ii dont quite remember but how many tank classes are there already?

  17. #1097
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sechs View Post
    Yeah main scenario really has too much watering down with useless and anticlimatic quests.
    The strange part is that at least one section of the Main Story that they could have easily watered down, feels "too fast". I'm talking about the last part of the original 2.0 storyline, where you defeat Van Baelsar, Nero Tol Scaevola and the remaining other legati.
    It all flowed... so fast. Don't you wish those guys could have received a bit more of a spotlight before disappearing so fast? Well Nero didn't disappear completely given his role in Crystal Tower, but I guess you get what I mean.

    I feel all that final part of the plot could have been easily watered down yet they didn't, but instead they provided a plethora of other useless things that really feel out of place and are particularly anticlimatic given the situations your character (and all of Eorzea) is facing.



    Also I have similar feelings with Heavensward.
    I dunno why but it's the most antihyped MMO expansion I've ever had in my life so far.
    We don't know anything other than mostly useless generic stuff that you could read behind the box of a game.

    I get this feeling like Yoshida says "aaah!" and everybody reacts "OMG OMG OMG OMG HE SAID AAAH! YOU GOT IT GUYS?! AAAH!!!!" and I'm left wondering why everybody is so incredibly excited when he didn't really say anything meaningful.
    I'm generalizing of course, it hasn't always been like that, but mostly yes, to my eyes at least.

    In addition to that, I feel that 2.0 still had a few (many?) things that felt "out of place" given the new direction taken by the game. They just didn't feel right, like remnants of the past.
    Given the huge amount of work they had to do for 2.0 I considered it acceptable that they didn't manage to find time to fix them, thinking "they will fix them during the first expansion". Yet it seems Heavensward, as far as what we've been told so far (which isn't much) will "just" be a more of the same, rather than something also providing big structural change to the game.
    (yes I'm talking about the Class/Job thing, and a few others)
    It's not like they are these HUUUUUUGE issues troubling the game in the end, but at the same time Heavensward feels more like a very very very very big patch rather than what I'd normally be expecting from a MMO expansion (this is an hyperbole, but I hope you get what I mean)
    I agree with you right there man. They said a 1.0 style type of thing was going to happen to lead up to Heavensward there isn't any rumbling ingame. With 2.55 we're gonna get the Battle of Ishgard but it just sounds like a dungeon/instanced fight. I wanted to see dragonkin start tearing up shit in Coerthas and NPCs with flavor text about something big coming. I wanted to see some of those random events happen like in 1.0 to start building hype. Hopefully they start doing something within the next few months.

    You were probably talking more about what content and changes we can expect once 3.0 hits and that stuff is important too, but i'd like to see the ingame world start changing a tiny bit at a time until it launches.

  18. #1098
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    @Trumpy
    Only 2 tanks atm. Warrior and Paladin.
    My problem with DRK (which is not a real "problem", just a sour taste left in my mouth) is not in the fact that the game didn't need another tank, it totally did.
    It's more about... why DRK?

  19. #1099
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    The cutscenes in FFXI are epic.

    This was an interesting moment in the Adoulin story (spoilers but if people haven't played SoA yet and still want to check things out).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iknpOARhkPc#t=6m5s

    The scene after it seemed the world is now safe!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xA-hwnky88#t=2m30s

    Music is epic. Also I like how in Alluvion Skirmish (it's like regular Skirmish except Nyzul Isle edition), you can just walk into sort of a hidden boss fight (well it's not really a hidden boss fight, just one of the random floor objectives that you may get; still I like the presentation). It's what I want to see RPGs. Randomly navigating through dungeons and then finding an eerie hidden boss. You click on Lorissa (who is Lorissa? Why is she randomly in this dungeon? Is this a trap?). Then suddenly the screen blackens, you see butterflies fly out of no where.

    Then you find yourself against this boss. Music plays.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTLKD9Zg7L0

    This is the only video I could find (too bad they didn't start with the screen fade into butterflies).

    Honestly Seekers of Adoulin as an RPG by itself is one of the best I have ever played. Exploration is actually encouraged even though you can teleport every where. Gathering tons of people to go through Yorcia (one of my favorite zones) to fight Yumcax for 36 hours.

    I also love the huge cast of characters and how they had backstories on the playonline / ffxi site too.

    In terms of cutscene, XI does great by adding small things.

    I also appreciate FFXI's dialogue options in the game. Add lots more fun to the cutscenes.

    One of my favorite dialogue options is with one of the cutscenes with a girl at the Adoulin castle.

    She tells you about Arciela and how she went to the jungle. You can reply with:
    1. Where is Arciela? (Which is the first and default option selected).
    Or
    2. Why did Arciela go to the jungle?


    (She explains that Arciela went to the jungle. You can reply with "Where is Arciela" even though she already explained to you that she went to the jungle. The correct choice is option #2.)

    I wasn't quite paying attention (or at least I didn't expect this) and I picked #1 and the girl got mad at me ("were you paying attention to what I just said?").

    That was a well done dialogue option. You actually had to pay attention to the text and if you weren't paying attention, you might have unintentionally (or intentionally) made the girl mad.

    It's the small things like this that makes me appreciate progressing through the story more (of course there were lots of these in ToAU and before too). ToAU had ton of these actually and you can really troll Naja in the ToAU missions.

    For example in this cutscene. This was a great way to point out a plot point.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJvQ-XVhqmc#t=7m43s

    (Also featuring some fun troll answers too.)

    FFXI does have some lengthy cutscenes too. Even the fetch quests reward you with 10-20 min cutscenes with stuff happening.

    Finally FFXI has a lot of flavor with every quest or with every event. In even just minor quests, there's lots of interesting lore, background story, or some familiar NPC that is involved that you can interact with.

    Like Unity is a good example (there's some fun dialogue with some of the unity leaders, like Flaviria for example).

    Overall, FFXI does well with story presentation.

    Also although the Vanadiel Tribune ended, it's nice they still covered story elements on the site too. http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/adoulin/index.html

    Click Excerpts from Adoulin.

    With XIV, the fact they're doing DRK as a tank for the sake of being different, why not...give more info about that?
    DRK is tank for the sake of there needing to be extra tanks (not to be different). Lots of people didn't want Ninja to be tank, so it became DPS. From reading various forums, a decent number of people are disappointed with DRK being tank only.

    They can't have only 2 tank jobs, so DRK is now the 3rd.

    None of the two new jobs fit in tank roll. DRK is closest.

    I agree with everyone saying there's not much info revealed about Heavensward (there were in a recent interview). Like I said before in my last posts, it'd be neat if there was a bigger road map with things to come.

    Of course while we don't know much about Heavensward, there can still be a lot of extra stuff that can be added.

    What I like about FFXI currently now is that the dev team actually responds to most requests on the official FFXI forums.

    2014 (and currently) 2015 has been the best year for FFXI in terms of updates.

    And personally, I will continue to be "for specs" in ARR.

    (Long post about specs again.)
    Spoiler: show

    The Gold Saucer team seems free (if they were a team dedicated to it), specs should definitely be the next project for ARR (or anything that allows jobs to not be locked in one role).

    For a game that is suppose to celebrate every FF game, they aren't doing a good job at celebrating all the various job identities or interpretations IMO.

    Specs (From WoW - basically each class/job has 3-4 sub classes that they can change to, with different abilities are tailored towards one play style) would be a good way to solve that problem. So if you have people that want to play Ninja as tank, melee, or elemental nuker can play Ninja as one of those. Or people that may want to play Dragoon as healer (for example). WoW shows that it can be done with specs (formally talent trees) and can also be balanced. Monk (in WoW for example) can be tank, dps, or healer. Monk tank is kind of like Ninja in FFXI too.

    Like I said before, Shaman is like Red Mage in theme. Enhancement Shaman is like RDM with enspells (meleeing + dual wielding too). Elemental Shaman is like nuker RDM. Restoration Shaman is healer RDM.

    How WoW does it is each class is effectively 3-4 classes. Enhancement Shaman has vastly different abilities than Elemental Shaman (play style is different too). There are some shared abilities but for the most part, it's like if each class had 3-4 sub classes (all with different abilities but with a theme that fits the class) they can change to.

    Again, ARR has something that resembles specs in WoW. Arcanist going from SMN or SCH is kind of like a spec. So if they added that on top of each job (and gave each job at least 3+ options), then you'll have something similar to WoW's specs.

    It is a lot of work (with Heavensward, there will be 12 jobs, so that means if they added 3 specs to each job, that's like implementing 36 jobs) but it is (IMO) would be worth the effort. Plus, adding specs will take less longer than adding a whole new job (as you can have the job share the same job quests, armor, etc).

    Reading various WoW forums and asking people that tried ARR and stopped playing it, one of the reasons people stopped playing is that there isn't much customization.

    For non-WoW players, I know a lot of people don't like the current interpretations of jobs in ARR.

    Overall, I definitely think adding Specializations (or something similar) to ARR will add a lot to the game and will be worth it. Now that the Gold Saucer team (if there was a team) is finished, whatever free devs they can have should start working on specs.

    Whatever it is (again, it doesn't have to be specs, it can be something else), ARR definitely needs something so that each job isn't just locked to 1 role and 1 play style.

    The thing about World of Warcraft and why it has (still is) the top MMO in terms of sub is that Blizzard done a lot of things right with it. There's lots of customization. The classes are fun and varied. And the balancing is good for the customization the game has to offer. I mean, WoW is more like FFXI than ARR. Monk tank is kind similar to Ninja for example. Monk can also be healer. Monk can also be DPS.

    Anyway, we'll have to see in Heavensward.


    As for XI again. Seekers of Adoulin is probably one of the best RPGs in terms of content I have ever experienced. Definitely kudos to the team.

    Reives and Wildskeeper Reives are well designed. They encourage and reward exploration in a very simple manner.

    In WoW WoD for example, they wanted to encourage exploration by removing flying (and WoW doesn't have as many teleports as XI or ARR). However, XI does this better by not forcing you to explore (or to travel on land only) but encouraging you to explore (huge difference) with the option of having teleports (way points) when you just want to get anywhere.

    Reives are a good way of encouraging exploration. Also the reputation/fame grind (Coalitions) also are a good way of encouraging exploration.

    When trying to unlock Yorcia, I had lots of fun trying to navigate past Reives and other stuff. It's like FFXI in the past except in modern form.

    An actual world to explore with benefits.

    I also like the key items and quests you had to acquire. It was really fun doing the quests, getting new key items, unlocking way points, etc.

    The content is varied.

    Skirmish gear is for those who like randomness. You can get tokens (the wings) to exchange for skirmish gear. However skirmish gear has random augments.

    If you don't like randomness, you can instead pick Airlixir Delve gear. Instead of randomness, you pick 3 paths and can slowly rank up a gear to its max rank (which is somewhat comparable to skirmish gear at its max augments).

    You also have Alluvion Skirmish gear and Delve gear (with static stats). From Seekers of Adoulin alone, 4 viable armor and weapons sets at item level 119. Lots of variety there.

    Of course nearly every old content has some item level 119 equivalent now. Lots of way to get to item level 119. And now there's more inventory than ever (and you can transfer most Rare/Ex items between characters). So more collecting.

    I'm enjoying Seekers of Adoulin a lot. SoA has one of the best content (Reives, Wildskeeper Reives, Delve, outside Delve, Skirmish, Alluvion Skirmish, Coalitions, Incursion) of any expansion (even SoA by itself is really good + you have all the old content that is relevant or got "high tier" boosts too).

    Lots of different events and lots of different ways to gear your character.

  20. #1100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sechs View Post
    Also I have similar feelings with Heavensward.
    I dunno why but it's the most antihyped MMO expansion I've ever had in my life so far.
    We don't know anything other than mostly useless generic stuff that you could read behind the box of a game.
    I get this feeling like Yoshida says "aaah!" and everybody reacts "OMG OMG OMG OMG HE SAID AAAH! YOU GOT IT GUYS?! AAAH!!!!" and I'm left wondering why everybody is so incredibly excited when he didn't really say anything meaningful.
    I'm generalizing of course, it hasn't always been like that, but mostly yes, to my eyes at least.
    Yeh I'm on the same train here. I will buy and play HW, and will continue to play FFXIV main as I do now, but I do not understand people not seeing beyond the details. I'm very much a logical person, and it seems like you are too. I see through a lot of things.

    There was a casual discussion in-game chat about "omg can't wait for new jobs". I instantly shot back a playful "no it's going to be shit" on the basis of if it's anything like how NIN was introduced, it's just going to be "the same 1-2-3/4-5-6 with a gimmick".

    But, unfortunately, they didn't understand. I stopped arguing at this point because I feel they were blinded by... advertising? Or whatever buzzword there is for such a thing. There was nothing to suggest, besides pretty animations, that DRK/Mach/Astro would be "fun" besides what I suggested above.

    I'm very much fascinated/interested in game design (systems, mechanics, stuff...... excluding story) overall so that's why I'm more critical on it however, so I'm not easily pleased.

    I also insisted that most if not all things in the game that were introduced between 2.0-2.5 were in general disappointing. Yes I do enjoy some of the quality of life improvements (i.e. extra emotes for example, or idle poses, the Lighting Returns promotional quest line) and other things, but some implementations are just enjoyable for a minute/first time and becomes tedious after.

    And one more quickshot, we don't know what's going to happen to the other jobs, but we do know SMN is getting a couple of new pets. This probably just mean a Garuda-Egi replacement with some bland moves while the job gets shafted again in the cross-class abilities department.