Live Presentation Event: The Future of Final Fantasy XI (03/19/2015)

[dasva]

I can't speak for XIV's patches but XIs are pretty non updates. 95% of them do nothing other than shift around the rewards and mobs in ambuscade. That's barely bigger than the maintenances to change log in campaigns and takes about as long.

Getting something completely new like Omen was a huge shock... and then we saw how shallow the content was but how the rate of upgrades and body droprate was such it would keep us plugging away for the rest of the year or so it kind of made sense.

[dasva]

FF boss cup noodles lol.

I posted an update abou mobile just last month here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxi/commen..._faq_mar_2017/

and we can probably expect an update about it later this month too.

As for Grandmasters, it's actually gonna get a ver2.0 revamp cos well.. poor game design/planning

Lol still recruiting for a bunch of positions... it might be awhile

[NynJa]

In which alternate universe is this happening? Even if you add up 3 months of XI updates you don't come close to a XIV patch. XI is on life support, they're just waiting for the mobile version to officially launch and then it'll be over.

Is this what all the XIV players pray for when they go to sleep at night?

[Toth]

I can't speak for XIV's patches but XIs are pretty non updates. 95% of them do nothing other than shift around the rewards and mobs in ambuscade. That's barely bigger than the maintenances to change log in campaigns and takes about as long.

Getting something completely new like Omen was a huge shock... and then we saw how shallow the content was but how the rate of upgrades and body droprate was such it would keep us plugging away for the rest of the year or so it kind of made sense.

An important difference between XIV and XI patches atm is that FFXI content are designed (well, largely) to last for a long time and can be revisited again and again for assistance on other content (i.e getting new Reisenjama gear, aoenic weapons, etc). FFXIV essentially replaces a small of content every 3 months and a large set of raids every 6 months. I think the main problem is that FFXIV content is static (i.e. there is only one way to beat dungeons, static moves from bosses, etc) while FFXI content is dynamic and can be tackled so many different ways.

[Spira]

I think that pretty much sums it up. FFXIV content progression is mostly linear. Content is fun maybe the first 3 times, and thereafter it's grind until you collect enough tokens or are locked out by the weekly drop. There's no incentive to try different strategies (they don't exist without overgearing or devs specifically script it into a phase of a fight) and the gear chase is essentially pick the highest ilvl number.

It's truly a treadmill because you do that and you have to repeat the same process 3-6 months later. My solution is I don't raid, because I can't be bothered to, and I also selectively take on EX trials because some of the dances are quite ridiculous. It's still generally fun, but the storytelling is still relatively horrid and the game overall isn't quite as engaging as XI.

@dasva
Some of those roles had been up since last year.. and we kinda know they already had work done since they had those assets done at the NDC before. It's probably additional hiring rather than, starting a new team now.

[steellord]

An important difference between XIV and XI patches atm is that FFXI content are designed (well, largely) to last for a long time and can be revisited again and again for assistance on other content (i.e getting new Reisenjama gear, aoenic weapons, etc). FFXIV essentially replaces a small of content every 3 months and a large set of raids every 6 months. I think the main problem is that FFXIV content is static (i.e. there is only one way to beat dungeons, static moves from bosses, etc) while FFXI content is dynamic and can be tackled so many different ways.

I dunno man, even B2P games like guild wars 2 gets more content than XI. What you're describing is more like grind

As someone pointed out 2 years ago right after this presentation, games that don't get updates are called offline and have no monthly fee. And yeah, RoV was designed to last a while but this past year, ambuscade and omen hasn't cut it. Seriously this is 1x a day content if you finished RoV and you can play thru it in less than the time (collectively) of a single new zone in a game with no fee. If that's your thing because the reward and challenge is worth it great, but...

Has it always been this way? No, it took weeks and months to figure out sky or sea or abyssea before it became grind. The difference is, while any new content the past 2 years is a surprise, there's no denying we won't get anything like that again. Playerbase is just too small now. In fact, once the reboot launches it may even be in the contract to /shutdown the PC. Obviously they wouldn't tell anyone this ahead of time

[Alkar]

FFXI's content isn't long lasting because it takes a while to complete, it's like that because of low drop rates or long farming sessions. FFXIV uses other methods to extend its content (mostly gating rewards) but the concept is exactly the same.
You can't tell me that XI's content is fine because it takes you ages to drop stuff or farm enough currency to get other stuff but XIV's content is done in one day (despite the fact that you can't acquire everything it offers on patch day).
Even in its prime XI's content was cleared on patch day UNLESS they had gating implemented to prevent players from even attempting the higher floors/tiers/bosses in whatever content was released.
Can you even call the April patch an "update"? Please, let's be realistic here.
XI is not even close to what it used to be, it really hurts me seeing what they're doing with it. It's also funny how most were shitting on Abyssea but what they're releasing right now is apparently "fine" lol.

Maybe you guys should check out the update notes from a few years ago, those were proper patches done right.

[NynJa]

XI is 14(?) years old and was confirmed "dead" 8 years ago when they dropped the game down to a skeleton crew while trying to drag stillborn XIV from the clutches of death.

[Hioki]

You can't tell me that XI's content is fine because it takes you ages to drop stuff or farm enough currency to get other stuff but XIV's content is done in one day (despite the fact that you can't acquire everything it offers on patch day).

Yes, FFXI's content is perfectly fine because of those exact reasons. The fact that XIV's is done in(taking out the bullshit gating and waiting) sub 3 hours is the exact reason people take issue with it(and 3 hours is really generous)

Where is your incentive if something will inevitably fall into your lap with little to no effort?

You're not working for any big payoff.
You're not farming out a pop set so you and your buddies can pop a big boss. You're not doing any story fights that challenge you in a meaningful way.
You're not going to be stepping foot in areas that only a small population can get to.
You're not excited for the reward as their current environment and content development does not require any prior tier gear to complete or start.
You're not adventuring, exploring, or undertaking something meaningful that fulfills any need.

More importantly just because something is gated it doesn't suddenly make it long-form content. The time to complete and time of progression in the content is extremely important. For example, Zhloe is not long form content, it's heavily gated, but it's time for completion is a mere hour. You most literally wait five weeks and do no more than an hour of start to finish work to complete the content.

The current long form systems are current tier raiding, deep dungeon, and the relic system. One of these get updated every 6 months or so. If you're raiding it's generally unlikely your doing the other two pieces of content with any seriousness. I would gladly take an abyssea, voidwatch, ZNM system in XIV.

TL;DR At the end of the day, you're "doing" more in XI than you're "doing" in XIV because all the content is poorly designed and lacks any long term system to incentivize meaningful future replay value. We need a merit and pop system in XIV so we make continuous growth...

[Draylo]

XIV isn't going to change, it will always be the same garbage lol. It's clear at this point they won't do anything differently with all the idiots buying 25 dollar mounts and dumb cosmetic stuff.

[Mrbeansman]

In what world is a game telling you to piss off till next week a good thing.

[NynJa]

In what world is a game telling you to piss off till next week a good thing.

Does XIV really do this?!?
These same people who would throw a hissyfit over a 72 hourdynamis cooldown are now all "praise XIV" and its week long cooldowns?!

[arus2001]

The only people I ever really see "praising" such gating are those who vehemently believe that the game would be ruined without them, that no one has an iota of restraint, and that everything would be farmed up within hours of a patch and it'd be back to whining about nothing to do.

Would that be true for some folk? Sure, but basing everything around the behaviors of the hardest of hardcores has always been silly even if the population here errs toward that. Make no mistake, however, time gating is there to stretch out subscriptions. Stupid long grinds like those found in XI are more or less a variant of that. How one goes about perceiving those grinds depends on their accessibility.

Still, calling XI's current update cycle good and/or ragging on XIV's just comes off as a mix of fanboying and/or Hating Another MMO Not My Own. They're more similar than not, and it's no secret XIV is SE's baby now. Both could be better, but if someone thinks either sucks because something is within reach of the filthy casuals, I'd argue they're just looking for prestige more than (fun) things to do.

[Sechs]

Ffxi has seen some gating too over the last year. Ambuscade is a perfect example with capes, mats for upgrades, dyes, metals etc.
I think this compares almost 1:1 to games like WoW and FFXIV.

Stuff like Omen is technically gated too but it's more hidden and gives more freedom.

[Madeline]

Coming back from XIV was the best decision I ever made. XIV is full of people that are exactly like the game. Dull, dreary robots that have nothing to offer.

I don't even know if I'm going back for the expansions at this point. Heavensward was everything I expected it to be, huge zones with no content in them. I still feel like current XI is more rewarding than some shit tier raid system that rewards what is essentially at some point nothing more than glamour. The entire game, and this is the inevitability, is nothing more than barbie dress up online. Your achievements mean jack shit and Yoshida said himself on more than one occasion that it's perfectly fine to just not play the game because it's designed to be played a month or two at a time at most to catch up. If you enjoy the ride, great. But if you realize it ultimately means nothing after the first time, XIV's content doesn't even last as long as XI's maintenance mode updates.

Sure glad I raided for 2 and a half years so absolutely nothing I did bar title collecting can matter. Doesn't even last 6 months before you do the whole thing over again and your achievements are all but gone. I'm glad I'm a Gillionaire. It'll be the only fucking thing I got that might last more than a few months as an achievement.

Guess I'm back home until something else interesting releases, if ever. The whole genre is going down the tube. Shame about XIV. It's a ride with no direction that people throw money at just to be pretty. Perfect for SE's pocket. Bad for people that would like to see innovation. Why change?

I still hope every day SE will realize that XI deserves more love, as more and more of the XIV flies drop off the paper. Can only charge $25 for a costume (or a mount that had content fucking designed for it) for so long, right? ..Right?

[Prothescar]

The only thing that I did in XIV that felt like a rewarding, long lasting achievement was tge "Of Dragons Deep" fishing achievement and finishing my fishing log. Combat content isn't very interesting or rewarding when you wake up and realize that everything you're fighting and the drops that you're getting will be shit tier in 3-6 months time when the slate is wiped clean and the next item level tier comes out.

Could argue glamour, but if I want to invest my time into a vanity system I'll continue putting time into GW2 and BDO which have real wardrobe/dye/skin collection systems instead of an archaic overly contrived and inventory devouring/restrictive glamour prism system with a single dye section on each piece of gear that isn't guaranteed to work well with your desired color.

But it's ok, god child Yoshida said he might add more dyeable parts to gear if Playstation 5 comes out.

[Mrbeansman]

Gating doesn't really matter so much in XI cause there's always something to do towards progression because of its superior horizontal progression. Honestly the big thing for me in XIV to me is that the gating is so blatant since you get reminded of it every time you open the currency tab.

[arus2001]

it's perfectly fine to just not play the game because it's designed to be played a month or two at a time at most to catch up.

Therein lies a problem for people who seek to get too attached to a singular game, as if that criteria alone justifies its quality. Gamers should be playing multiple games. Some may be one-offs. Others will have replay value, sure. Other RL obligations/finances will cut into the breadth of titles one might access, yes, but hyper-focusing isn't good for the industry or even the players.

I mean, look at the posts at least attempting to objectively compare. Such helps to find what one likes and what does not, where occasionally you'll find things you've never ever thought about, but wind up finding awesome after the fact. And yes, there are those, "What the fuck were they thinking?!" moments, too. Such is experimentation, or maybe some dev hubris.

Sub fees don't really encourage shopping around, either. Nevermind the reality that only fractions of such harvested resources go back into the product that generated them. Talks about inflation, how it's just a lunch a two, or shaming those that disagree with the system are, as per prior debates, just par for the course mental gymnastics to justify their own investment. I wrapped my last post saying both games could be better, but could is the wrong word. They should be. And I'll continue to dock points from the XI experience as long as they continue to demand their "full price" for bare minimum effort.

[Byrthnoth]

I liked XIV's crafting minigame and some of the fights were fun the first few times, but the game is antisocial in pursuit of casual dollars and that really hurt its long-term enjoyability for me.

It felt like much more of a slog to queue up for daily dungeons with strangers than it does to spam ambuscade for a few hours because every time would be a bunch of strangers with varying degrees of dungeon understanding silently attempting to clear the dungeon simultaneously. That is so much more frustrating and thus grindy feeling than doing ambuscade with a group of friends and wiping a few times maybe but getting better at it and doing it a little more efficiently each time. Each clear feels like a victory vs. feeling like (at best) the Duty Finder roll was in your favor that run.

They need to fix their communication system so that you can always send tells and give servers something to do together other than hunts.

[gaira]

currently working (on a fresh character) on a mythic, ergon, and aeonic which would be my first of those 3 types. after that i'll be pretty much out of things i really want to do, but still enjoying xi after all these years. gave xiv a shot, but it just wasn't for me.