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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColenzoRidesAgain View Post
    Except the fact that 2.0 is the whole reason the company didn't go bankrupt.
    Except you're wrong.

    They wrote off all the development costs from v1 and ARR to make it profitable, they ate the massive losses from the games. The other parts of the company are what made them profitable, mobile games and gambling machines.

    ARR is not about profits, it was about not being humiliated. That's all that game is and all it will ever be, it will never even break even and they have long ago accepted that.

    It's easy to be "profitable" again if you write off all your expenditure the year before. ARR has 500k subscribers, has a very large development budget as well as regional servers.

    They managed to make a game with similar numbers to ffxi that costs vastly more to run. Since ARR is only about saving face it's not going to run as long as ffxi did, not even close.

  2. #142
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    You suck at math.

  3. #143

    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    And 1.0 was half the reason they were on the verge in the first place...
    True. But it appears the double or nothing roll came up double. That's part of why FFXI got another development cycle despite being on the edge of having no hardware to do so- and FFXI's weak point is that it's utterly dependent on PS2 coding to produce something translatable into other platforms.

    FFXIV is making solid money now with 2.0, and being able to continue to develop what is, at it's core a PS2 game ported to the PC has gotten prohibitive. I do wonder if they're making sure that FFXIV doesn't fall into the same development trap FFXI has.

  4. #144
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    How do you guys know XIV only has 500k sub ?

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccl View Post
    How do you guys know XIV only has 500k sub ?
    They said all of their mmo titles together had 1 million subs in a financial report a while back, then a games news site contacted them in January 2015 and asked them directly.

    They said 500k.

    People have also worked it out based on profits from the last financial report / sub fee as well as a character listing done by a JP blogger from characters on lodestone.

    A lot of FFXIV players are kings of wishful thinking.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyreth View Post
    True. But it appears the double or nothing roll came up double. That's part of why FFXI got another development cycle despite being on the edge of having no hardware to do so- and FFXI's weak point is that it's utterly dependent on PS2 coding to produce something translatable into other platforms.

    FFXIV is making solid money now with 2.0, and being able to continue to develop what is, at it's core a PS2 game ported to the PC has gotten prohibitive. I do wonder if they're making sure that FFXIV doesn't fall into the same development trap FFXI has.
    Considering that the game was developed first as a PC title, and then ported to PS3/4 I'm sure they learned their lesson of the past. That and with PS3 being killed off by the end of Heavensward expansion, only better things can happen for them as they move forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by rate View Post
    They said all of their mmo titles together had 1 million subs in a financial report a while back, then a games news site contacted them in January 2015 and asked them directly.

    They said 500k.

    People have also worked it out based on profits from the last financial report / sub fee as well as a character listing done by a JP blogger from characters on lodestone.

    A lot of FFXIV players are kings of wishful thinking.

    Cite source please.

  7. #147
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    I know Polygon (at least) cited the 2014 annual report here (the PDF is linked in the article).

    Kinda hard to really tell with the sales of MMO stuff specifically, since they roll box sales in, and count everything as one big unit (slide 17 here....slide 18 demonstrating why new-XI is mobile I guess).

  8. #148
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    1 million subs for all 3 mmo titles combined.

    http://arcadesushi.com/square-enixs-...rs-2015-plans/


    --

    News site contacted Square directly and they told them 500k subs in Jan 2015 (note this is an updated article this new info was additional)

    Square Enix tells MCV that the actual number of Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn paying subscribers sits at 500,000, with over 2.5m registered users. These numbers do not include the game's performance in China, which charges Chinese gamers on a per-minute pay model. A Realm Reborn will launch in Korea in 2015.

    http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/squar...ribers/0143457

    730k CHARACTERS (not accounts since you can have upto 8 characters per account)

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...y_730k_active/

    JP links in the redit post above.

    --

    Their 3 MMOs made a combined total of 200 million dollars last year. It looks like more than half of that came from FFXIV. That falls in line with 700k-800k subs plus whatever the cash shop brought in. They are in a prime spot for this expansion to be a huge success.
    Bottom line is that we will continue to see the quality we've come to enjoy.

    I think that would be closer to 600k or a little under. If you take 100M / 12 that equals 8.3M per month. I used $14 per month as the sub rate to reflect the lower sub fee for many. I also dropped anything over the 100M and the 33k per month to attribute some revenue to the cash shop. It could be more, but I wouldn't think much more than 50k and not much less than 20k as a margin of error
    .

  9. #149
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    I know dead horse etc but if it's "only" 500k it makes even less sense to kill XI now lol. Also china a big market for MMO!

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by rate View Post
    1 million subs for all 3 mmo titles combined.

    http://arcadesushi.com/square-enixs-...rs-2015-plans/


    --

    News site contacted Square directly and they told them 500k subs in Jan 2015 (note this is an updated article this new info was additional)

    Square Enix tells MCV that the actual number of Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn paying subscribers sits at 500,000, with over 2.5m registered users. These numbers do not include the game's performance in China, which charges Chinese gamers on a per-minute pay model. A Realm Reborn will launch in Korea in 2015.

    http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/squar...ribers/0143457

    730k CHARACTERS (not accounts since you can have upto 8 characters per account)

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...y_730k_active/

    JP links in the redit post above.

    --
    the numbers are over 1 year old (march 31 2014), it still speaks of 2.5 mil created accounts for 14, while last time FFXIV advertised with 4 Mill created accounts october 2014. We have no actualy numbers

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by rate View Post
    which charges Chinese gamers on a per-minute pay model.
    That sounds like loads of fun

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    the numbers are over 1 year old (march 31 2014), it still speaks of 2.5 mil created accounts for 14, while last time FFXIV advertised with 4 Mill created accounts october 2014. We have no actualy numbers
    The updated subscription numbers that state 500k are from JANUARY 2015

    4 million registered accounts doesn't mean much of anything, that encompasses free trials, rmt that are banned and keep buying new copies, as well as v1 accounts. It helps to use real numbers instead of fairy tale ones.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by rate View Post
    The updated subscription numbers that state 500k are from JANUARY 2015

    4 million registered accounts doesn't mean much of anything, that encompasses free trials, rmt that are banned and keep buying new copies, as well as v1 accounts. It helps to use real numbers instead of fairy tale ones.
    pls read from the site:

    Updated: These MMO figures actually come from an original financial report that was filed on March 31st, 2014. Square Enix tells MCV that the actual number of Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn paying subscribers sits at 500,000, with over 2.5m registered users. These numbers do not include the game's performance in China, which charges Chinese gamers on a per-minute pay model. A Realm Reborn will launch in Korea in 2015.
    2.5 million registered users was the number of march 2014. The official number by SE on october/Nobember 2014 was 4 million registered users for 14 while advertising. So i really dont know what kind of number that site got. So something seems fishy.

    they had 2013 1.5 million subscribers (or registered subscribers), by march 2014 2.5 million registered subscribers, and by october/november as advertised 4 million registered subscribers. There is missing information in that article and we dont know what number SE did send them (if any at all)

  14. #154
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    @rate
    Direct measurement of subscribers for a game like XIV is difficult, and is a much less reasonable metric to measure the popularity of the game without taking an amalgamated average over the course of several months. For someone who seems to be so interested in MMO subscription trends, I'm surprised you haven't understood this on your own and taken it into consideration, but then again most of your posts are devoted to XIV bashing so the bias isn't totally ruled out.

    Think of the subscription total as being the posts that hold up a rollercoaster's rails. During periods of content activity, i.e. patches, mostly major content patches, the posts will be high, towering well above the ground and possibly even over the posts of many other rollercoasters. During periods of less content activity, the posts will be far shorter, creating dips and dives in between each one of the taller posts. This is an unavoidable circumstance in today's MMO economy; WoW sees this too. In between expansion packs and major patches, WoW loses millions of subscribers at a time only to regain them when the next big thing rolls around. It's a symptom of a vprog model and one that will continue to occur for the foreseeable future. In order to assess the average height of the rollercoaster, you need to measure each set of posts individually and average them together; taking the values of the highest posts, or in this case the lowest ones, and using them as what you can expect from the rollercoaster throughout the entire ride is foolish.

    At the end of the day, the cost:reward ratio for XIV is significantly higher than that of XI, and the amount of effort and resources required to maintain and produce more things and receive more of an audience for XI was deemed too high for one reason or another. It's basic economics and it isn't difficult to assess why the decision was made; if you want to blame anyone, blame whoever decided that building the framework of an MMO on architecture that would obviously become antiquated relatively quickly was a good idea.

  15. #155
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    From the official fiscal year end March31 2015: (while this no specific number for 14 the report states that 14 is doing favorable, its not producing any loss, but the net gain isnt as big as they wanted, but they are seeing a positiv trend):


    Digital Entertainment
    The Digital Entertainment segment cons
    ists of planning, development, dist
    ribution, and operation of digital
    entertainment content primarily in the form of games.
    Digital entertainment cont
    ent is offered to meet
    customer lifestyles across a variety of usage environ
    ments such as consumer game consoles (including
    handheld game machines), personal computers and smart devices.
    In the consolidated fiscal year under review, repeat sales, primarily through download, of catalogue titles
    released in the prior fiscal year were strong, while t
    he Group released fewer full-length console game titles
    compared with the prior fiscal year.
    In the area of content for platforms such as smart devices and PC browser,
    “SENGOKU IXA,
    ” a browser
    game and “
    DRAGON QUEST MONSTERS SUPER LIGH
    T,” a game for smartphones continued to show
    strong performance. “
    SCHOOLGIRL STRIKERS
    ,” “
    FINAL FANTASY RECORD KEEPER
    ,” and “
    Kai-ri-Sei
    Million Arthur
    ,” games for smartphones newly released duri
    ng the fiscal year ended March 31, 2015 have
    been showing strong performance as well.
    Massively mulitiplayer online role playing games such as “
    FINAL FANTASY XIV
    ” and “
    DRAGON QUEST
    X
    ” have been making favorable progress.
    Net sales and operating income in the Digital Entertainment segment totaled ¥111,926 million (an increase
    -
    1
    -
    of 18.4% from the prior fiscal year) and ¥17,276 millio
    n (an increase of 61.3% from the prior fiscal year),
    respectively.
    FFXI isnt even mentioned so you can guess your self how well 11 is doing in SE's eyes.

    so to debunk what you said: FF14 isnt makeing pure losses, its producing income that outweigh the development/maintaining cost of 14.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prothescar View Post
    Think of the subscription total as being the posts that hold up a rollercoaster's rails. During periods of content activity, i.e. patches, mostly major content patches, the posts will be high, towering well above the ground and possibly even over the posts of many other rollercoasters. During periods of less content activity, the posts will be far shorter, creating dips and dives in between each one of the taller posts. This is an unavoidable circumstance in today's MMO economy; WoW sees this too. In between expansion packs and major patches, WoW loses millions of subscribers at a time only to regain them when the next big thing rolls around. It's a symptom of a vprog model and one that will continue to occur for the foreseeable future. In order to assess the average height of the rollercoaster, you need to measure each set of posts individually and average them together; taking the values of the highest posts, or in this case the lowest ones, and using them as what you can expect from the rollercoaster throughout the entire ride is foolish.
    The entire idea behind this trend still baffles me. Maybe it's just from starting MMOs with Everquest, or even a good ways before it with MUDs and other various domains. Always been curious what made this really pick up over the past 5-10 years. Guess it's just that MMOs have become less grindy thus people actually do run out of things to do? Or just run out of "fun" in a given patch? Or maybe it's a generation thing, people getting older, more responsibilities, if amount of content in a given span of time doesn't feel worth a month's sub, people just dive out in hoards until they feel there's enough to come back to?

  17. #157

    Quote Originally Posted by Malithar View Post
    The entire idea behind this trend still baffles me. Maybe it's just from starting MMOs with Everquest, or even a good ways before it with MUDs and other various domains. Always been curious what made this really pick up over the past 5-10 years. Guess it's just that MMOs have become less grindy thus people actually do run out of things to do? Or just run out of "fun" in a given patch? Or maybe it's a generation thing, people getting older, more responsibilities, if amount of content in a given span of time doesn't feel worth a month's sub, people just dive out in hoards until they feel there's enough to come back to?
    All of them. But I'd also add there's more competition out there to distract, too. To me, that makes XIV's 500k "now" more impressive than XI's "back in the day" because its only real competition was an aged EQ and a young WoW. The landscape has since changed dramatically.

  18. #158
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    There was always other good games out when FFXI was in its prime, what are you talking about? There are a lot less now then there were then. We get mostly crappy HD remakes and terrible games these days it seems.

  19. #159
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    You were cold as ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    And 1.0 was half the reason they were on the verge in the first place...
    Never believe the doomsday stories that SE makes. The only real doomsday story was Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, and that only destroyed their movie arm of the company.

  20. #160

    Quote Originally Posted by Draylo View Post
    There was always other good games out when FFXI was in its prime, what are you talking about? There are a lot less now then there were then. We get mostly crappy HD remakes and terrible games these days it seems.
    I'm talking MMOs, in particularly their time sink-y nature, not one-shot titles where very few would be lucky to break 40 hours.

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