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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sho View Post
    Ahh man, that still sucks. :\

    Just to ask, have you ever tried to challenge your mind by learning completely new subjects that are otherwise foreign to you?
    Often. New language, new skill, new whatever. Because ADHD if I learn too quick I get bored and if I learn too slow I lose interest.

    I think medicine is about the only thing that doesn't bore me and that's because it constantly changes.

    I also used to meditate but my brain latches onto stimulus so quickly I don't even make time for it. Heck, I wanna lose weight and I can't even do that, lol.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuronosan View Post
    Often. New language, new skill, new whatever. Because ADHD if I learn too quick I get bored and if I learn too slow I lose interest.

    I think medicine is about the only thing that doesn't bore me and that's because it constantly changes.

    I also used to meditate but my brain latches onto stimulus so quickly I don't even make time for it. Heck, I wanna lose weight and I can't even do that, lol.
    Just need the right motivation! As a passionate guy I just introduce a new woman to my life to motivate me and simultaneously cause turmoil

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    Sorry, but saying that someone with depression just needs "motivation" is kind of ignorant. Depression is an actual disease, like cancer. You can't motivate yourself to beat depression any more than you can motivate yourself to beat cancer. Your mind and heart is in the right place, but if you've never actually suffered from the type of debilitating depression that actually causes you to be incapable of doing even the simplest tasks, then you wouldn't understand why saying things like "Do stuff that makes you happy" or "just pick yourself up" is incredibly insulting. They would if they could. I've had days where getting out of bed was a monumental task. There's no quick fix.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksannyi View Post
    Sorry, but saying that someone with depression just needs "motivation" is kind of ignorant. Depression is an actual disease, like cancer. You can't motivate yourself to beat depression any more than you can motivate yourself to beat cancer. Your mind and heart is in the right place, but if you've never actually suffered from the type of debilitating depression that actually causes you to be incapable of doing even the simplest tasks, then you wouldn't understand why saying things like "Do stuff that makes you happy" or "just pick yourself up" is incredibly insulting. They would if they could. I've had days where getting out of bed was a monumental task. There's no quick fix.
    Being a bit too light hearted then, my apologies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksannyi View Post
    Sorry, but saying that someone with depression just needs "motivation" is kind of ignorant. Depression is an actual disease, like cancer. You can't motivate yourself to beat depression any more than you can motivate yourself to beat cancer. Your mind and heart is in the right place, but if you've never actually suffered from the type of debilitating depression that actually causes you to be incapable of doing even the simplest tasks, then you wouldn't understand why saying things like "Do stuff that makes you happy" or "just pick yourself up" is incredibly insulting. They would if they could. I've had days where getting out of bed was a monumental task. There's no quick fix.
    While i do agree with this, I also partly disagree. I've been depressed twice in my life, and both times I had times where even getting out of bed at times. Both times I got out of it be making large changes in my life with the help of supportive family and friends.

  6. #66
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    Been suffering with depression for the past 12 or so years and medicated for last 5 of those since thats when everything went started going south, wasn't really anything that made it that way it just happened so been struggling with it majorly since then.

    The first 4 years of those 5 were the worst since initial my parents split and my dad moved out then a few months late mum moved down with him to try and patch things up so i was on my own for those 4 years, well cept for my cat.
    Everyday was a battle of suicidal thoughts/theres not a point in it all/I'm useless and pathetic for feeling like this etc, took up exccessive drinking just to try and numb all those thoughts but thinking back it never did, most of the time the main thought that stopped me from actually carrying out a suicide attempt wasn't what it would of done to my familiy but that i didn't want to leave my cat alone for how ever long it took someone to find me(Sisters/Parents did phone every so often and visited about 2-3 times a year for my parents and maybe about once a month for one of my sisters)

    I say most of the time because i did make an attempt in august 2011 or it could of been 2010 im a bit hazy on the year for some reason, was blind drunk and had simply had just more than i could take at the time so thought fuck it i'm out so i popped all the pills i had laying about the house and the rest of whatever it was i was drinking then went of to bed in hopes of never waking up, suffice to say i did wake up and the only side effect of it all was a rapid heartbeat.

    Since then i have gotten somewhat better but it really just feels like existing rather than living and i honestly don't know how to change that after dealing with this for this long, have pretty much no friends as all but 1 don't speak to me anymore since actually getting treated for this and i've always found it extreamly hard to make new ones and while i would rather be on my own its also fuck ass lonely at times aswell which is one of the many things i hate about myself, going to stop now since i've probably written more on here about my depression than i've actually talk about with anyone so far and i could still go on but it just seems easier to let it out anonymously than talk to the people i know and worry them(they do know i suffer with depression but not about the suicide 'attempt' i'm sure they worry enough without knowing that) which is absolutely stupid but thats me, don't want to worry anyone and just for people to be happy =/

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksannyi View Post
    Sorry, but saying that someone with depression just needs "motivation" is kind of ignorant. Depression is an actual disease, like cancer. You can't motivate yourself to beat depression any more than you can motivate yourself to beat cancer. Your mind and heart is in the right place, but if you've never actually suffered from the type of debilitating depression that actually causes you to be incapable of doing even the simplest tasks, then you wouldn't understand why saying things like "Do stuff that makes you happy" or "just pick yourself up" is incredibly insulting. They would if they could. I've had days where getting out of bed was a monumental task. There's no quick fix.
    As someone who has pretty terrible depression (as Spicyryan can attest) that's honestly not entirely true, or false. How you frame your mind is very important and can greatly affect your mood even in the worst of depressive states. I can easily make my depression worse if I go trolling suicide threads on 4chan or depressing subreddits, and I can make it better by attempting to do things that make me happy. This isn't always true, sometimes you are just so depressed that nothing can make you happy, but for many people it is true. The depressive cycle is a lot of "I'm depressed -> I do nothing/something bad -> I get more depressed". Now a lot of the time my original depressive states come completely out of no where and have no correlation with mood or anything, that's definitely the disease, it's just that motivation and frame of mind can have a huge affect on dealing with it when it happens.

  8. #68
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    I can concede that it is largely situational and that it affects everybody differently. Dealing with depression is hard not just for those who have it, but for those who are affected by people who have it. I've had a lot of friends and family members who just don't get it.

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    To be fair, I think everyone has suffered from depression in one form or the other. While depression can be crippling, it takes a strong supporting cast willing to boot someone in the ass to help them get out of it. Not by picking on them or calling them a pussy but by spending time with them, not giving them a chance to stay depressed. "Yo, we're going out today get your shit ready we're hiking" or "Let's go grab a bite and watch a movie". I never understood the pity party that followed the diagnosis, you're not helping anyone by feeling sorry for them or pointing fingers at others for not doing so, a true friend puts their shoulder to the grind stone and helps them work it out. Otherwise, just make sure they know you're available when they're ready to make some progress.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falaras View Post
    As someone who has pretty terrible depression (as Spicyryan can attest) that's honestly not entirely true, or false. How you frame your mind is very important and can greatly affect your mood even in the worst of depressive states. I can easily make my depression worse if I go trolling suicide threads on 4chan or depressing subreddits, and I can make it better by attempting to do things that make me happy. This isn't always true, sometimes you are just so depressed that nothing can make you happy, but for many people it is true. The depressive cycle is a lot of "I'm depressed -> I do nothing/something bad -> I get more depressed". Now a lot of the time my original depressive states come completely out of no where and have no correlation with mood or anything, that's definitely the disease, it's just that motivation and frame of mind can have a huge affect on dealing with it when it happens.
    That is why you have a jerk like me around.


    Spoiler: show
    And for this.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksannyi View Post
    Sorry, but saying that someone with depression just needs "motivation" is kind of ignorant. Depression is an actual disease, like cancer. You can't motivate yourself to beat depression any more than you can motivate yourself to beat cancer. Your mind and heart is in the right place, but if you've never actually suffered from the type of debilitating depression that actually causes you to be incapable of doing even the simplest tasks, then you wouldn't understand why saying things like "Do stuff that makes you happy" or "just pick yourself up" is incredibly insulting. They would if they could. I've had days where getting out of bed was a monumental task. There's no quick fix.
    I agree with this to a large extent, up into the fact that there really is no quick fix. However, you do need a sort of motivation to help move you out of your situation. This can be in the form of family, friends, a future goal, a significant other, new baby on the way, that one "true" mentor, death in the family, euphoric moment, religion, so on and so forth. I guess a better word would be "stimuli" some people just need that sort of push to get the ball rolling in the right direction. However, I'll repeat and agree that there's no quick fix, but also that once you get started on a path you literally can't look back or you'll relapse. If you are resolved to get your life back on track YOU MUST NOT STOP GOING FORWARD.

    My girlfriend too was severely depressed due to her rough family problems, being overweight, a miscarriage and feeling unloved -- she actually almost succeeded in killing herself (took 56 Vicodin, her liver shut down, she was given activated charcoal so she could vomit the stuff back up). The fact that she was lying on what she thought was her deathbed was all that she needed to start her journey out of depression. I became her second motivation as well as a friend at the time. She's doing wonderful now, started dating me, lost almost all of the weight (300~ down to 150), and constantly does things to make herself and me happy. I'm not advocating that someone should reach the brink of death to spur change, but there needs to be that something that will push you, and it's up to you to find it (or at least get help in finding).

    Quote Originally Posted by AidenCarby View Post
    ...a true friend puts their shoulder to the grind stone and helps them work it out. Otherwise, just make sure they know you're available when they're ready to make some progress.
    Truer words, my guy, truer words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aksannyi View Post
    I can concede that it is largely situational and that it affects everybody differently. Dealing with depression is hard not just for those who have it, but for those who are affected by people who have it. I've had a lot of friends and family members who just don't get it.
    Yes indeed, it can be easily mislabeled as laziness or procrastination. However, it's up to you first to want to change your situation -- not your family or friends. If they don't understand or can't help you, you must look for those who can. There are hotlines and chat forums like this for a reason.

  12. #72

    Stumbled across this link buried in a thread on reddit, and it was so extraordinary I decided to bump this thread. Basically it's an intelligent, educated person giving an argument for why suicide is a logical option at times. It was written 120 years ago, but is still poignant today. Perhaps moreso as the Christian majority lashes out against the increasing tide of secular thinkers and attempts to put their religious beliefs into law.

    http://www.theingersolltimes.com/is-suicide-a-sin/

  13. #73

    Quote Originally Posted by Blubbartron View Post
    Stumbled across this link buried in a thread on reddit, and it was so extraordinary I decided to bump this thread. Basically it's an intelligent, educated person giving an argument for why suicide is a logical option at times. It was written 120 years ago, but is still poignant today. Perhaps moreso as the Christian majority lashes out against the increasing tide of secular thinkers and attempts to put their religious beliefs into law.

    http://www.theingersolltimes.com/is-suicide-a-sin/
    Impressed. Not joking. And some of the stuff on anti-Semitism is chilling, considering he wrote all that years before WWI, never mind WWII.

  14. #74

    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    Eh that's kinda sketchy advice. Weed (all drugs legal and not) effect people differently

    Sometimes weed makes me extremely paranoid, which if coupled with me being in a shitty mental state, makes for a suuuuuuper bad time.

    Drinking always makes me happy as fuck, which is not true of everyone.

    With mood altering substances ymmv. Be careful with all of them if you're in a shitty place mentally.
    To tag onto this a little: I used to abhor weed because I thought it created extremely bad habits associated with being lazy. Until I started partaking on a more regular basis. Life seems worth living when I am high, and I can function normally depending on what I am smoking/in taking. I do not drive or work high but chores around the house? Way easier to start and finish. Sometimes homework is far more pleasant, too, and I *focus*. I get into making them notecards so hard. Smoke an indica and music and movies are the best as you sink into the couch. Substances are all about how you handle them and knowing limits.

    Alcohol on the other hard, very much depressed me and made me nauseous. It took me a while to finally say I don't need this in my life and since then I've drank very sporadically and been much happier without it in my life.

    Sath's right. Not every substance is for everyone, and be careful.

  15. #75
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    After giving it a lot of thought, I can fully say that he's right, especially for the purposes of depression.

    Though it helps me out, it's not for everyone, as everyone's brain does not fire/react the same way. I can put it more in a sense that, it enhances your current mood beyond limit, for good or for bad. You can be in a shitty place mentally, but have a point of solace and reprieve -- in my own case, this was when I then smoked, and it helped a lot. It also helped that I was amongst great friends who always seemed to set a good mood up for the day or night as well.

    To again move it from the topic of weed, I can restate that any one with depression should seek help, as well as stay near good friends who can not only understand where you are, but also keep you in a constant state of good thoughts and well being.

  16. #76
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    I didn't read the entire letter, but man there was a lot of truth in there. I have anxiety and at times I have those feelings of worthlessness when things are going really bad. I've never realistically thought of suicide, but when reading how the author felt it actually made sense for a person when they feel they have no usefulness left, I get it. Of course the world has come a long way regarding mental health and finding resolve. My only quip about that is the cost is so high that many people cannot afford to do things the right way by going to a psychologist and psychiatrist. Most general practice doctors (like mine) will just throw a SSRI (prozac, celexa, etc) at you and say come back in three months and tell me how it's going. While the drugs have worked for me with anxiety, I'm tired of the side effects. One which is a great segue to drugs and alcohol.

    Drinking has always been my partying vice. Weed never did anything for me. Over time though alcohol has had a weird effect on me in regards to my stomach. About 8 years ago I started getting really sick the morning after drinking. It was like, hangover x100. After that, getting what I like to call a PUI (got a DUI while passed out in my car parked after a night clubbing with friends), and then getting married I really slowed down. When realizing I had a serious problem with anxiety and getting on medication I noticed I would start to crave alcohol. I mean, I REALLY really wanted it. What was even scarier was I would get blackout drunk after say the equivalent of eight drinks or as little as three. There would be no rhyme or reason, but getting blackout drunk and doing a lot of stupid shit really bothered me. That was while on Celexa. I switched to Prozac and was much better, but still heavily craved alcohol. I stick with beer only now for the most part. Don't get me wrong, I really like a good craft beer (specifically stouts) but if it's not at least 7% it just doesn't do it for me.

    My point of this rambling is, in the end I don't want to be like this anymore and all of the side effects from the drugs are too much for me. I've done as much practical research as I can, and I started going with a regiment of vitamins that is suggested to have similar effects as SSRIs. I've also kicked caffeine which sucks because I LOVE coffee (on day 5). Alcohol is next. I definitely need a ton of exercise as well. But possibly the biggest thing to change in my life is internet usage. There is so much negativity online and for someone that is effected by anxiety it definitely has an effect. It is my opinion people do not realize that what they put in their mind (reading stuff online) has a huge effect on their overall attitude and demeanor. I could go on at great lengths regarding specific sources of online negativity and how it effects, but an easy one to point out is facebook. Look at people's timelines and look at just how negative the majority of it is. For those that do have issues with anxiety, depression, etc the last thing we need is more and more negativity in our lives so getting rid of facebook was an easy decision. Same with any other "social media" (virtual soapbox for that days cause). Oops, there I go rambling again.

  17. #77
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    I am sure there are countless answers to the questions I have but I'll ask anyway. What exactly classifies as depression to a doctor? What is it that they consider the cause of it? Is have an extreme hate for others or not seeing a meaning to anything considered depression? If so why? My outlook on society is kind of the same as Blubbartron's post. I don't see the point in hoping for change that is never going to happen, and I despise the people that from my point of view prevent any change. However, suicide isn't really my go to thought at the moment. It is more along the lines of I would like to drop everything and leave. Just go anywhere else in the world and live alone away from society. I want to be able to explore something without hindrance. How the fuck does someone find a meaning to anything when society is so shitty?

  18. #78

    Quote Originally Posted by enzan View Post
    I am sure there are countless answers to the questions I have but I'll ask anyway. What exactly classifies as depression to a doctor? What is it that they consider the cause of it? Is have an extreme hate for others or not seeing a meaning to anything considered depression? If so why? My outlook on society is kind of the same as Blubbartron's post. I don't see the point in hoping for change that is never going to happen, and I despise the people that from my point of view prevent any change. However, suicide isn't really my go to thought at the moment. It is more along the lines of I would like to drop everything and leave. Just go anywhere else in the world and live alone away from society. I want to be able to explore something without hindrance. How the fuck does someone find a meaning to anything when society is so shitty?
    As with most things in the field of mental health, the core of diseases are defined in the DSM, usually in the form of a series of symptoms. For depression in particular, the thing that makes it clinical depression instead of just being sad is how prolonged the feeling is, and it having a dramatic impact on quality of life. There can be some physical symptoms of depression such as general fatigue or aches and pains that never seem to go away. As you can probably surmise by now, it's very subjective, and largely depends on how you describe your feelings to the doctor. The prevailing science says that depression is a result of a chemical imbalance in the brain, and that's how it's most often treated. They know a lot less about depression than they claim to, though. That's why most treatments involve throwing pills at you until you say you feel better. Sometimes they combine it with psychotherapy, which I've found to be pretty similar to hypnosis - the only way it works is if you want it to, and you believe it does. It's too close to placebo effect to tell the difference, in my opinion.

    What you're struggling with is nihilism, most likely. I also think that way fairly frequently. If I'm not presuming too much - it's not that we're necessarily devoid of passion, but quite the opposite in my opinion. We have a passion for seeing humanity succeed, for making life better for the people around us, but we see the hurdles that our own society is putting in front of itself. That's extremely depressing, and eventually it's just easier to say fuck it, and fuck these people, and turn off the caring instead of feeling so fucking powerless. That in turn leads to the desire to isolate. That's what I do.

  19. #79
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    Your post was so informative until the end.

    I wish your intellect really demonstrated an understanding of psychology but the word "placebo" reeks of anecdotal experience.

  20. #80

    Quote Originally Posted by kuronosan View Post
    Your post was so informative until the end.

    I wish your intellect really demonstrated an understanding of psychology but the word "placebo" reeks of anecdotal experience.
    I'll admit that it's anecdotal, I even said "which I've found" and "in my opinion." But it still seems to be the case. Have you ever seen a study demonstrating that therapy helps someone who doesn't believe it can help, and is helping? I sure haven't. Actively believing in it does appear to be the deciding component of its effectiveness, and that's almost exactly the definition of placebo effect.

    I have an understanding of psychology, and that's a large portion of why I don't trust it very much. It's a soft science, and relies on subjective data to make claims. If we were capable of actively measuring the composition of brain chemistry and compare self-reported feelings to that objective data to draw parallels, I would have much more confidence in it. Until it's more grounded in objective data, I'm forced to take it with a grain of salt. This is especially true since many of the symptoms listed in the DSM (for various mental disorders) boil down to "not believing in or acting the same as people in the same area." The appeal to popularity is built into the "science" rofl. Not to mention the lack of acknowledgement of evolution. It stands to reason that a person's genetic makeup could cause them to reason or perceive reality differently than the majority who lack the genetic code to do so. How, then, do you define something as a "disease" or "disorder" simply because it's not the same as others? They try to overcome this by making it about how it impacts a person's life, but being different from others in a species of community-oriented apes is automatically going to cause problems unless you hide it. That doesn't necessarily make it wrong, or bad. There is an objective reality independent of what society believes is true, even as that society acts to make you miserable.

    More on point, if someone perceives the society they live in as ridiculously backwards and self-destructive, and almost everyone else doesn't, is the person just a cynic (and/or clinically depressed), or are the others suffering from mass delusion? It's not a simple question, and demands more investigation than throwing pills at a person until they stop caring about the negative things they see/think about.

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