Game Watch Translation - Yoshida Interview on Heavensward (EU Media Event 5/19)

[Spider-Dan]

And I don't recall the part where people aren't asking for new and exciting features, but the majority of what people ask for is unrealistic AND stupid.

Wait, I thought insulting people because they want something different than you was the ignoble path? I guess "low-hanging fruit" is on the menu for everyone.

Ultimately, if I want to see something different it's with the content, not with the stuff I get from the content.

Acquiring gear IS content in an MMORPG; in fact, it's the primary content. The overwhelming majority of events in this game revolve around gear distribution.

It's not an opinion. Gear doesn't need to be fixed because it's fine. It works, it's boring but it's fully functional, predictable and easy to handle.

The idea that "boring" itemization is "fine" is your opinion.

The literal interpretation of your argument is that if gear can be equipped successfully and content can be cleared with it, it is by definition "fine" and further improvement is unnecessary. By this standard, 2.0 WAR was also "fine."

You would rather jobs be unique and interesting rather than effective

Amazingly enough, it is possible for them to be both. For example, SCH and WHM are two very different (read: unique, interesting) healers, yet both work effectively.

[Sho]

May not even get to play at that high level in HW with my bros due to real life limiting our raiding windows more and more as I factor myself in. Partially glad that we have a month before raids open for that reason. It's one reason that I'm hoping for more midcore stuff that I can do with just anyone, or hoping that the general population improves ever so slightly. Naive hope but meh.

I have no doubt I will enjoy HW on the surface level solely because it's a lot of new stuff for everyone to play with and despite me playing the "immersion" card before, I do get sucked in to the story (just not all the supplemental lore stuff or connecting the dots from every little side fetch quest). It'll be like 4 months down the road (after 3.1 hopefully, and when the hype settles) when I have to take a hard look.

I'm turning casual but I'm still a grumpy hardcore at heart. So I really am the grumpy grandpa grumping about the good old days.

That sucks. I gave up with hardcore around 2.3~2.4, and just midtier it with my girlfriend, who enjoys being a causal and squees ever time she defeats a EX primal or Coil, or when she pushes up her iLvl another point. Not that anything high level is difficult, I just choose to not do it anymore in favor of her having a good time with me in game.

And that's one other thing that I absolutely hate in ARR (and soon Heavensward). The midcore content (especially in leveling up) has been completely gutted out in favor of straight to endgame fights and level capped causal shit. Unless we want to consider CT and EX primals to be midcore as well (also largely meh).

Everyone who comes from FFXI has a story about that Yutunga Jungle level up party, or sky/sea party, Promyvion Mission , beating 6-4 for the first time, or colibri meripo party. Beating Salvage or even Nyzul Isle for the first time. Getting their shit pushed in by that Aquarius or that Serket or that Guivre as the ran to the perfect exp spot. Shit like that. Most of the assumed midcore content in ARR is largely forgettable, and doesn't do much to forge any friendships of any kind other than hoping the guy next to you in the fight can dodge a mechanic, win, then it's "GG bros" and straight to the exit. No one remembers the 3rd or 5th time they ran Aurum Vale to level up. I hate that shit and not expanding that sense of an "open world" are missed opportunities by the team. Obviously, the common playerbase doesn't really care all that much of content that actually requires them to think or strategize with others however, so it's not that big a loss.

I'll get sucked into the story of HW as well and likely enjoy the new stuff like airship building, because it'll be something new that doesn't happen in any other MMO. Same with whatever new event that will be added to Gold Saucer in 3.1 (probably snowboarding). I'd say take a hard look after 3.2; by then the expansion will have been 5-6 months in and the vision of the next 6 months until 4.0 will have been fully realized.

[Lucavi]

the only issue is SE loves their backward ass formats.

Yes they do, and you know I love nothing more than to hurl spears at SE about their stone-age methods of using PCs.

[Niiro]

I'd say EX primals have been the only "mid-core" content in the game thus far.

Not something you can expect to clear in DF, requires knowledge of mechanics, but generally not on a difficulty level of Coil, and perhaps most importantly, does not have a lockout.

Calling CT mid-core would be......extremely generous to say the least.

[Lucavi]

CT was "mid-core" only when it was brand new; week 1 clear, and only for the first tier, IMO. Once we saw the level of difficulty SE was targeting, the only difficulty became enduring the terrible droprate for the specific gear you wanted to drop, and then winning said lot. I remember lots of wipes on Bone Dragon, and then never again.

[Sho]

I'd say EX primals have been the only "mid-core" content in the game thus far.

Not something you can expect to clear in DF, requires knowledge of mechanics, but generally not on a difficulty level of Coil, and perhaps most importantly, does not have a lockout.

Calling CT mid-core would be......extremely generous to say the least.

Yeah, which is why I was passive about even mentioning it. Same for hunts. All content that holds your hand and passes out easy gear. The only difficulty becomes the loot RNG.

Content can be created that requires a higher lvl of teamplay, but isn't as next level as Coil. Yoshi-P has mentioned that he is going to bring new types of content, so one can only hope it's to this effect.

[Elcura]

Wait, I thought insulting people because they want something different than you was the ignoble path? I guess "low-hanging fruit" is on the menu for everyone.

Because stupid ideas don't exist and every idea has value and worth, right? That says nothing about the people or their condition. But I'm not against being specific or against low hanging fruit if it at all matters. You know that for a goddamn fact.

Acquiring gear IS content in an MMORPG; in fact, it's the primary content. The overwhelming majority of events in this game revolve around gear distribution.

I'm sorry, what?

So thing you do isn't the content you did, the thing you got from the content you did is the content you have? WHAT IS CONTENT? A MISERABLE PILE OF SECRETS! BUT ENOUGH TALK HAVE SOME GEAR.

I just...what?

The idea that "boring" itemization is "fine" is your opinion.

The literal interpretation of your argument is that if gear can be equipped successfully and content can be cleared with it, it is by definition "fine" and further improvement is unnecessary. By this standard, 2.0 WAR was also "fine."

No...?

My point is that changing gear to be diverse isn't necessarily an improvement if it breaks other aspects of the game in the process, and that isn't a fix by any stretch of the imagination.

Could it be better? Yes. Is it going to get better? Probably not. Why? Reasons. Whether you like or agree with those reasons is irrelevant, it is what it is.

Amazingly enough, it is possible for them to be both. For example, SCH and WHM are two very different (read: unique, interesting) healers, yet both work effectively.

Amazingly enough, being both is easier said than done. And let's not overstate how different WHM and SCH are. WHM is unique the same way having a healer in MMOs is unique, and SCH is different in that it has a pet which I guess makes SMN unique and interesting too. I mean they chose generally the most effective ways to make a healer and did those things. What is AST if diversity is so easy to get right? MAC or DRK? Chances of new jobs being unique, interesting and effective are a hell of a lot less than the job being effective first and foremost, interesting and unique may or may not apply but it'd be stupid to think they aren't trying.

WAR and PLD could be very different, but they could also be a lot worse. Actually WAR was a lot worse, but I suppose you don't mind that.

[Spider-Dan]

Because stupid ideas don't exist and every idea has value and worth, right?

Likewise, some positions are ADHD-fueled.

I don't have a problem with calling a spade a spade. I do have a problem with people complaining about a lack of civility when they are equally quick to hurl insults at positions they don't agree with.

So thing you do isn't the content you did, the thing you got from the content you did is the content you have?

The reason people do the content (particularly: almost any content you complete more than once) is to earn gear. Boring gear makes completing the content unsatisfying and leads to a sense of tediousness (see: myriad complaints about towers dropping sub-top-tier gear). This is not "fine."

My point is that changing gear to be diverse isn't necessarily an improvement if it breaks other aspects of the game in the process, and that isn't a fix by any stretch of the imagination.

Again, you bake "diversity MUST be broken" into the solution. Just because it's harder doesn't mean it's impossible.

It would have been much easier to make SCH a carbon copy of WHM. That isn't what happened, and the game is better for it. The idea that the same effort could be applied to other jobs is not insanity.

WAR and PLD could be very different, but they could also be a lot worse. Actually WAR was a lot worse, but I suppose you don't mind that.

WAR could have been fixed in ways that didn't just copy PLD -% damage taken CDs. SE chose to go the easier route because a certain portion of the playerbase is willing to accept (and even actively promote!) boring cookie-cutter design, out of a mortal fear that one job might not be as popular as another one for a few weeks.

Out of all the MMOs in the world where perfect-balance-at-all-times is a necessary requirement, XIV is the one that needs such a paradigm the least. It's trivial to level new jobs, roles share most of the same gear, and you can switch jobs in an instant. XIV is positioned perfectly to be MORE innovative with LESS negative impact on the game, yet instead SE chooses to be as conservative as possible.

For 2.0, I grudgingly understood the logic. But again, for 3.0 we were promised more. And it looks like instead, we are just getting more of the same.

[Lucavi]

Again, you bake "diversity MUST be broken" into the solution. Just because it's harder doesn't mean it's impossible.[/i]

Let me ask you this, with all the civility in the world: where have you seen it? What MMORPG has it existed in? I'm genuinely curious. Cite an example for me. You're pretty good about grabbing screenshots as well, so double-up on it and post some screens of the various sets or pieces.

To remind you, I'm saying nothing about the possibility impossibility of a thing. I'm simply asking to see where you've personally witnessed it.

[Spider-Dan]

I gave an example in the next sentence: SCH and WHM.
Want more? BLM and SMN.

[Draylo]

Feels so similar to XI, some people seem to hate-play games

lol it's actually pretty hilarious to read at this section. Funny how many of the people who constantly posted on XI sections about their hatred for it after they quit months~years ago are now saying "stop being so negative and hating the game I like! Quit if you don't like it!"

[Spider-Dan]

lol it's actually pretty hilarious to read at this section. Funny how many of the people who constantly posted on XI sections about their hatred for it after they quit months~years ago are now saying "stop being so negative and hating the game I like! Quit if you don't like it!"

Or even better: quit playing the game, then continue to post for years about this game that you hate AND ALREADY QUIT PLAYING. This is presented as a reasonable alternative!

[Lucavi]

I gave an example in the next sentence: SCH and WHM.
Want more? BLM and SMN.

Gear. Balanced gear diversity. I thought I typed that. Whoops.

Talking about why you stopped paying to support something after ceasing paying to support it is the more logical of the two, if the alternative is to consistently complain about it while clinging to it like a battered wife. I don't think your alternative sounds as intelligent as you think it does.

In any other situation than your MMO one, talking about why you stopped supporting something you didn't enjoy is seen as logical, rather than complaining while still funneling effort and tears into it. You should probably step back and think about that a little bit.

[Spider-Dan]

So wait... you're arguing that gear can't be diverse because that is what causes balance problems?

Before even trying to unravel such a statement, I would first ask you to support the original premise. On what basis do you claim that a game exists that would otherwise be perfectly (or even sufficiently) balanced, but for the excessively diverse gear selection?

[Elcura]

Likewise, some positions are ADHD-fueled.

What does attention span have to do with not wanting diverse gear? Like does any of that make sense?

There are ADHD-fueled positions, this isn't one of them though. At least that position has some worth.

I don't have a problem with calling a spade a spade. I do have a problem with people complaining about a lack of civility when they are equally quick to hurl insults at positions they don't agree with.

It's more about how than what.

The reason people do the content (particularly: almost any content you complete more than once) is to earn gear. Boring gear makes completing the content unsatisfying and leads to a sense of tediousness (see: myriad complaints about towers dropping sub-top-tier gear). This is not "fine."

It's also not content, boring gear isn't amazing by all means but it also means you aren't restricted to events that drop the best gear if they aren't your thing. That is fine, even if it isn't your thing.

Again, you bake "diversity MUST be broken" into the solution. Just because it's harder doesn't mean it's impossible.

It would have been much easier to make SCH a carbon copy of WHM. That isn't what happened, and the game is better for it. The idea that the same effort could be applied to other jobs is not insanity.

It's not the idea anyone has a problem with, it's the execution. And it's not the idea that it's impossible that's the problem, it's the fact that it's harder. How much is worth the effort? We've seen (and will continue) how far they're willing to go. It would've been easier to make SCH the same, but it would have also have been pointless, you really do bounce around to extremes when I already covered this. You could even consider SCH to be the exception (and frankly... it is and probably still is even with new jobs). What about the exception makes you think this would be commonplace?

WAR could have been fixed in ways that didn't just copy PLD -% damage taken CDs. SE chose to go the easier route because a certain portion of the playerbase is willing to accept (and even actively promote!) boring cookie-cutter design, out of a mortal fear that one job might not be as popular as another one for a few weeks.

Out of all the MMOs in the world where perfect-balance-at-all-times is a necessary requirement, XIV is the one that needs such a paradigm the least. It's trivial to level new jobs, roles share most of the same gear, and you can switch jobs in an instant. XIV is positioned perfectly to be MORE innovative with LESS negative impact on the game, yet instead SE chooses to be as conservative as possible.

For 2.0, I grudgingly understood the logic. But again, for 3.0 we were promised more. And it looks like instead, we are just getting more of the same.

They could've spent months constantly balancing and tweaking WAR to be unique, all the while being more or less effective than PLD. They might have gotten it right, they might not have and even so they could've just done things they way they did anyway. SE thought of the most effective way to bring WAR up to speed when they needed to focus on other things and did that. You think a few weeks is enough to test that? It would've been all around sloppy as hell, but those aren't the kind of thoughts that are popular.

I do agree that balance isn't so important in a game where you can (and ideally should) level multiple jobs but that's just the state of gaming today. The expected effort required to be generally effective is a lot less than it was 10 years ago. There isn't that level of isolation and expectation that you should be good at everything (because you might not be). In a game wanting to be accessible this is obviously not a great idea. The idea that the first job you level to max might not even be wanted is a proposition I doubt many are willing to go through, and while you could just research good jobs and builds that's not most people.

It's conservative but it also appeals to the most people possible. It would be far easier to make an interesting game for a few than for a lot and HW to me will prove if they can do that.

[Lucavi]

So wait... you're arguing that gear can't be diverse because that is what causes balance problems?

Before even trying to unravel such a statement, I would first ask you to support the original premise. On what basis do you claim that a game exists that would otherwise be perfectly (or even sufficiently) balanced, but for the excessively diverse gear selection?

I'm not arguing anything. I'm asking you to provide an example of a game that has extensive gear diversity without breaking specific pieces of gear in the process in comparison to others.

Keep it simple, Dan. You're looking for fights where there is none.

[Sho]

lol it's actually pretty hilarious to read at this section. Funny how many of the people who constantly posted on XI sections about their hatred for it after they quit months~years ago are now saying "stop being so negative and hating the game I like! Quit if you don't like it!"

Reading too into it, bro -- I just stay the course and call it down the middle as I see it, though optimistic.

The irony is funny however, you're justified in getting back at some of us in this manner, lol.

[Lucavi]

Reading too into it, bro -- I just stay the course and call it down the middle as I see it, though optimistic.

The irony is funny however, you're justified in getting back at some of us in this manner, lol.

Is he? There's a significant difference here: one game is healthy by all measures, while the other is literally on its last legs. Those complaining here are pretty much the 1%, and I think most of us would admit to that. A bunch of old fogeys that neither have the time nor the actual type of game itself to re-live our glory days of investing 50 hours a week in raiding and attuning; of waking up at 3:45 in the morning to help with that stupid-ass late night Fafnir window.

Dray's entrance here just seems to be more of an outsider trying to get what dig he can: a guy who was a fan of an old sub shop that's closing down (and he can do nothing to stop it despite loving it with all of his heart), seizing the opportunity to laugh at the new joint down the street because there's finally some discussion on complaints about the variety and quality of the condiments, even though the new shop is making bank each month.

I mean, sure, congrats? Enjoy the laughter, I guess? Haha. You can link this to your facebook feed with a "FINALLY, HAHAHA!" post if that's your thing, Dray. Get a few likes and words of encouragement from gramma or something.

[Voyage1970]

For real though, XIV could do with some more Mustard. Sick and tired of all this Mayonnaise bullshit and don't even get me started on the Ketchup!

[Lucavi]

For real though, XIV could do with some more Mustard. Sick and tired of all this Mayonnaise bullshit and don't even get me started on the Ketchup!

And guac shouldn't cost extra. I don't care how much avocados cost in the store!