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  1. #21
    All We Need of Hell
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    I agree with it feeling awful.

    2.0's rotation was simple, but it was effective. It rewarded finding times when we could just turret and gave us tools to mitigate losses when we couldn't. 3.0's rotation is timed with two buffs that must be maintained to do competitive DPS. There are just too many elements working against BLM for me at the moment: strict Astral/Umbral and Enochian timers, current fights (even in dungeons) with tons of required movement and boss invulnerability, weird delays in being able to use F4/B4 after an Astral/Umbral switch, unplanned procs going to waste, SS changes and how SS will interact with Ley Lines, Fey Glow changes, Ley Lines requiring two movements instead of one to dodge, Thunder potentially being a dps loss but needing to use it sometimes for MP ticks, AoE nerf, Manawall nerf, etc etc. The list just goes on and on. We do comparatively well when we don't have to move but when has no movement been a major part of endgame? T8? We now have new tools that reward even less movement than before but now with nerfed shielding. It sort of feels like playing BLM is a "pick your punishment" kind of class at the moment and that's what makes it feel pretty awful for me to play.

    Who are people going to want for progression? The caster with battle raise that always does 1k DPS while handling mechanics and now has better AoE? Or the one without battle raise that sometimes does 1.1k DPS as long as they stand still but drops way below that if they deal with any mechanics? I hope Alex is kind to BLMs or I think it's going to be a rough few months.

    I think the bottom line is that BLM just isn't very fun to play for me anymore which is a shame. I adored it before. Time to level SMN to 60!

  2. #22

    It wouldn't be so bad if the old rotation was competitive with the new in dps, like bard is without WM.

    It's always been a back and forth. BLM was king in 2.0 launch, then smn when blm was nerfed, then blm again when buffed, then apparently smn again at 60. I've always kept both leveled enjoyed both :D

  3. #23
    All We Need of Hell
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    Yeah, for sure. Probably smart for every caster to try and keep both classes at cap.

  4. #24
    I trusted Zet and this is what happened
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    So when do you all cast your Bliz 3 when you in your 2nd/3rd rotation of Astral Fire for Eno? I usually cast Bliz 3 at around 10 seconds remaining to allow me a little bit of wiggle room for Bliz 4 if I need to dodge, but I know if I got one more Fire 4 off before switching my DPS would be higher.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitomeOfBismarck View Post
    There are definitely a lot of very odd things going on with BLM at the moment.

    I really dislike that they still haven't changed to a look ahead system when it comes to our astral/umbral buffs. That delay between B3 and F4 is quite noticeable as you mention and there really isn't much you can do about it unlike the umbral phase. Even in the umbrla phase, the second time you enter this phase you will have to cast blizzard IV almost immediately to save your enochian timer.

    The fact that you can't right click enochian off speaks a lot about how it was planned out. Also, as you mention again, the fact that reusing enochian actually counts as casting a blizzard IV instead of refreshing the buff's internal refresh cycle makes me wonder what they were thinking when designing this.

    Also consider the fact that the current itemization on our gear puts us at a whopping 539 SSPD w/o food and the adjustments to spell speed, it's going to be very rough unless you know the fight ahead of time.

    I definitely think SMN is the current ideal caster for progression right now sadly.
    The delay between the F3 and the first F4 is an old bugfix, from the infinite flare bug in 2.0.

    And the itemization has just made it so there is no point for any dps class to run "speed" as the DoT's are barely affected by it.

    I just don't think Square Enix tested this properly at all, it feels like a rush job, because it could have been done so much better. I like it, but its clearly not been tested properly.

    Oh, and hey bubbles, how are you doing?

  6. #26
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    DO you high piety characters have enough for 4 Fire IV's on opener? Thun 1 - Fire III...etc

  7. #27
    Cerberus
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    What is everyone's breakpoint between single target rotation and AOE. Have you kept to the 3+ AOE and 1-2 Single Target or have you adjusted? I haven't run numbers but the feeling I have gotten over multiple runs of EXDR is that I may shift to 1-3 targets = Single Target and 4+ is AOE.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neon_Sea View Post
    DO you high piety characters have enough for 4 Fire IV's on opener? Thun 1 - Fire III...etc
    Short answer: yes I'm able to get in 4 Fire IV's with Keeper of the Moon. Uploaded a video of the opener I use so you can see the MP levels yourself. Is it different for the other races?



    You'll notice that this opener cuts it extremely close: almost losing both hasted cast of B3 and the B4 to refresh enochian so it's quite dangerous. Then again, that's with 539 SSPD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sign View Post
    What is everyone's breakpoint between single target rotation and AOE. Have you kept to the 3+ AOE and 1-2 Single Target or have you adjusted? I haven't run numbers but the feeling I have gotten over multiple runs of EXDR is that I may shift to 1-3 targets = Single Target and 4+ is AOE.
    Testing between the two, I think 3 targets is enough for AoE to pull ahead using freeze as a filler versus the single target rotation.

  9. #29
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    Well not if I start with bliz III, guess I have to get used to that. With current SS it is very tight timing but I think it will work out. I am jsut a few hundred short when I start with t1 - f3

  10. #30
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    I have about 700 spellspeed & blm is awful. Really regretting levelling it first, I do not want to raid with it that .5 secs between b3/f3 and b4/f4 being up, the whole thing is just cunty and gives me a headache.

  11. #31
    I trusted Zet and this is what happened
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keria View Post
    I have about 700 spellspeed & blm is awful. Really regretting levelling it first, I do not want to raid with it that .5 secs between b3/f3 and b4/f4 being up, the whole thing is just cunty and gives me a headache.
    I'm starting to fear this is the right decision and I know I can't get SMN to 60 by Tuesday unless I get some tanks to que with me, and I'm trying to finish my PLD (at basically 58)...

  12. #32
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    Basically what needs to be done to fix BLM (and casters...) -

    Astral Fire Duration Increase
    Thunder 4 - Thundercloud giving extended Enochian by 5 seconds (so that using Thundercloud doesn't punish you)
    Allow finish of B4/T4/F4 cast if the cast has started even if Enochian drops off
    Fix of the F3-Gap-F4 bug.
    Reduction of the Mana cost of F1 to be the same as F4 (so that using F1 instead of F4 doesn't double punish you)
    Enochian skill always fully refreshes Enochian (so only B4 is a diminishing return)

    Then give one of the SMN skills a small magic vulnerablity debuff so they have more utility.

    What the above will do is bring QoL to BLM, and make casters able to be a viable option in raids where there aren't any "cheese" mechanics that force the use of a caster - and allow caster heavy parties to compete with Melee heavy parties.

  13. #33
    My Little Ixion
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    Just hit 60 last night and ran through the end of the MSQ fights. I'm really impressed at the changes, even if it's harder to maximize DPS. That will work itself out with practice.

    My normal (traditional) rotation: (Swift)B3 > T2 > RS > F3 > F1 spam + procs > B3 > T3 > repeat from F3
    The change from T2 to T3 was a result of needing an extra UI tick to fully refill on MP.

    Enochian rotation:
    If opening, (Swift)B3 > Leylines > T3 > F3 > RS+Eno > F4x2 > F1+Proc > F4x2 > B3 > B4x2 > B1 > B4x2 > F3+Sharp > repeat from F4 until timers run out

    If I know I'll be moving too much to drop a leyline, I just do my normal rotation adding in Sharps & Enochian.

  14. #34
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    Why are you using B4 x 2?

    Why are you using T3 over T1+B1?

    You shouldn't ever be using T3 apart from Thunderclouds, and if you have Enochian up, you shouldn't be using thundercloud.

  15. #35
    My Little Ixion
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    Quote Originally Posted by haroldsaxon View Post
    Why are you using B4 x 2?

    Why are you using T3 over T1+B1?

    You shouldn't ever be using T3 apart from Thunderclouds, and if you have Enochian up, you shouldn't be using thundercloud.
    Noted. Didn't say I was an expert on the rotation yet (I've been 60 less than a day). That said I don't mind experimenting a little to see what limits I can push.

  16. #36
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    FIV needs to restore astral, it just has to. FUck

  17. #37

    What's weird though, I wonder if more content will be like Ravana extreme.

    As blm you can just sit there and cast for like 90% of the fight, it has special melee only mechanics that causes them to move. Maybe we can expect more stuff like that in new content?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilbubbles View Post
    What's weird though, I wonder if more content will be like Ravana extreme.

    As blm you can just sit there and cast for like 90% of the fight, it has special melee only mechanics that causes them to move. Maybe we can expect more stuff like that in new content?
    This could be a possibility. We saw a lot of reduced movement in FCoB. T10, T12, and T13 (for the most part) require minimal movement. Here's hoping?

    T11 was a great example of how BLM's overcame the movement issue through some creative means. But that's just the thing...the strategy abusing the use of the nerve gas grids was only developed after the fact and not in actual progression from what I saw.

    We're all going to have to be very creative!

  19. #39
    I'VE CHOSEN A TITLE FOR THE LIKES OF YOU!
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    After lots of Ravana with my BLM, playing with Enochian and what not, some things for myself I've noted:

    - If you're not sure you're gonna be able to fit that 2nd Fire IV during your Enochian rotation, just fall back onto Fire I. It's MUCH better to refresh your Astral Fire III early, than to be left with a piddly Astral Fire I for the rest of your Enochian rotation. Playing it safe is the way to go.

    - Swiftcast is best saved for those situations where you need an emergency Astral Fire refresh or need to get Blizzard IV out fast. I've definitely cut it close to the point where I swiftcast Fire I and it lands right when Astral Fire wears, but still manages to refresh it to Astral Fire III. Same thing with Swiftcast + Blizzard IV for Enochian.

    - For something like Ravana's Spirit Gana, I don't even bother Fire IV-ing them. They have such low HP, and the rest of your team will most definitely slice them down after one cast of Fire I (which takes off 35~45% of their HP already). Moon Ganas are one thing I always Fire IV rotation on though.

    - In the above situation with a ton of mobs like that, sometimes I actually retarget Ravana just so I know my next cast will be guaranteed for something essential like Astral Fire / Enochian. There is -a lot- of target switching.

    - Do not be afraid of falling back onto your old 2.0 rotation. Sometimes we mess up, but hesitation is the sure way to lower your DPS. If I lose Enochian by accident or don't have it available, I just immediately revert to 2.0 rotation full throttle. Sometimes what I'll do is if I get a Firestarter proc, I'll use it, then use Sharpcast, then Fire again during the GCD for a 2nd Fire III to add a bit of burst damage. Since we rarely get to use Sharpcast in the Enochian rotation anyway, I figure it's best to try and beef up 2.0 rotation whenever possible if I must use it.

    This parse doesn't really mean too much, but was one of the higher parses I got on Ravana, haha. I felt pretty good about it!



    Need to get that Hive Staff, grrr!

  20. #40

    Quote Originally Posted by haroldsaxon View Post
    Astral Fire Duration Increase
    I haven't played BLM yet but this would make the most sense.

    They increased the duration of Heavy Thrust and Phlebotomize to accommodate DRG's 4-step combos while in their new stance, it only makes sense to do something similar for BLM.

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