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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukari View Post
    Midbattle, with no CDs up but Enochian, and Enochian timer out/B3 up, what do you guys do for the first 30 seconds of Enochian? F3 F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 (FS if you got it) B3 T1 B4? Or cut the T1?
    I've cut back using Thunder except as part of my opener or when I'm in the traditional rotation (waiting for CDs).

    BTW, has anyone tried to extend the Enochian rotation as much as possible after Leylines wears off? I managed to get through a second set of F4s even after Leylines had worn off but lost Eno trying to get to the next B4. Will be easier to manage with the adjustment they're making to B4/Eno.

    I haven't measured the DPS on it either (yet). Was just curious if that or switching to the pre-HW rotation was better damage.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukari View Post
    Midbattle, with no CDs up but Enochian, and Enochian timer out/B3 up, what do you guys do for the first 30 seconds of Enochian? F3 F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 (FS if you got it) B3 T1 B4? Or cut the T1?
    You should have enough mana for straight B4. If you get a slow mana tick, you can T1. T1 and B1 is only a filler move that is weak.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by bercus View Post
    How much DPS can BLMs pump out at Bismarck with all the dodging?
    What rotation would you recommend going for?
    I'm also curious about this. I was in a bis-ex farm party and we had 2 different BLMs run through our group while failing the first chitin DPS check. They were doing like maybe 350 encdps on the chitin. Is this normal for BLMs, or were they just not playing optimally?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eidle View Post
    I'm also curious about this. I was in a bis-ex farm party and we had 2 different BLMs run through our group while failing the first chitin DPS check. They were doing like maybe 350 encdps on the chitin. Is this normal for BLMs, or were they just not playing optimally?
    I can't ever stop laughing because Bis ex just looks like Bi sex everytime I see it.

  5. #65
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    I play PS4 so I can't actually parse but that sounds really low. I'm still getting used to the rotation but when I've been parsed on dummies I flirt around 900 sustained but that's optimal conditions. a 600 drop off doesn't sound right to me though

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aikaal View Post
    I just made a guide for BLM Guide Link It took me a long time to get used to it but it's not too bad once you know the deal.
    I write this as a Keeper of the moon miqo, I have 11353MP solo as BLM60.

    After extensive testing of your opener with varying results...sometimes it would work for me perfectly, other times I would run out of MP for Blizzard III. I've decided that theres a few things that should be noted regarding it this opener. The opener in question: [QS>Sharp>Ley>F3>Eno>F1>RS+Pot>F4x3>F3P>Conv+Swift> F4x3>B3>B4], Should work fine in a party setting with a SCH or AST (piety buff) for any race. However, when one is solo (practice/testing) it can be a problem depending on what race you are (unless you have additional points in piety).

    When I was testing this solo, I realized that sometimes it would work and sometimes it would not. I would get to the end of the phase and be ready to cast blizzard 3 and have exactly 262 MP. Blizzard III costs 265 MP to cast, but because the opener is so tight, if you have to transpose you will almost certainly lose out on enochian refresh. This is not viable solo or in a party without piety buff (like no situation almost ever outside of DF, lol) unless you are one of the higher piety races. But I thought it warrants at least some warning in this scenario because this will definitely cost you big dps if you are unaware.

    But why did it work sometimes and not others? I wanted to investigate the reason, and after calling a few blm friend to my dummy, we discovered what was happening. There is a chance that after the third Fire IV cast and in between the fire 3 proc, in the middle of your convert and swiftcast you can get to a point where your astral fire drops off and you get a small tic of mp. When this happens the rotation works out fine. Lucky for me I found this happened to Aikaal and you can see it demonstrated in his video at this timestamp: Clicky here. If you look just before he uses convert you will notice he gets a small MP tic after AF3 wears off moving him from 2167MP to 2394MP before his convert goes off which brings him to 5801MP. If you get this small tic as well, which is definitely NOT guaranteed, you'll be fine. If you don't you simply won't have enough MP to cast blizzard III and will most certainly lose enochian.

    This would not have affected Aikaal whether he got the mini mp tic or not since he has 6 more base MP than me.

    TL;DR This rotation may not work for solo players or parties without piety buff on characters that have lower base piety.

    PS: Ty for your contribution to the community Aikaal, this post is in no way meant to disrespect but only to heighten awareness for less piety races. This also raises the casual and unimportant question of: if this mini mp tick is present, does it mean that firestarter proc is applied without the bonus damage of AF3? Not overly important but thought provoking.

  7. #67
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    I've had several other players report to me that they cannot perform the rotation in certain circumstances like the ones you listed.

    Here's the deal with this opener: it's very tight. I have not tested it including a potion BUT if I were to, astral fire would fall off on the 5th fire IV/6th fire IV leading to inability to cast blizzard III. I use a VPN as well so the problem is definitely more noticeable without one. As it stands now, I have 1 second left on astral fire III before I cast blizzard III without a potion. Since RS + pot are recommended to be used at the same time, I have a feeling this is where you are seeing the discrepancy.

    Perhaps this will change after we get more spell speed on our gear.

  8. #68
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    What I have been doing for simplicity sake and since I don't play many fights on blm is;
    pre cast ley lines, B3 sharp+eno, F3 RS, F1, F4 x 4 proc, convert...etc

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitomeOfBismarck View Post
    Since RS + pot are recommended to be used at the same time, I have a feeling this is where you are seeing the discrepancy.
    What I am referring to is directly related to piety and not sspd/latency. This is only for certain races that don't have the higher pie. Using pots+rs would actually set you up better since you're more likely to get the mini mp tick when af3 drops off. But again, this is only outside of party PIE buff, so solo or uncommon DF/PF setups.

    the rotation is very tight, but it is very doable on all 60 content currently, outside of when you get the first quarantine in A4 (RIP).

    Now when your af3 drops off before b3, that may be latency issue or not pre-queueing Ogcds, or the b3. I can't say for sure as I have slightly more sspd than Aikaal does in his video. Unless you have an extremely high latency, I think this rotation is very possible because even in his video, Aikaal doesn't pre-queue neither RS or Enochian in advance (during previous spell) which ends up costing him some time because he does it when the spell has finished casting instead. This can be very important for someone with higher latency and might make the difference between completing this rotation and not. I did encounter this issue, but it stopped when I spammed the b3 button during the last FIV cast. My latency is about 140-190ms, though which is not very good imo but im sure people experience worse.

    The biggest factor in latency is the potion going off since that will take longer the higher your latency is and it is not possible to queue it. This rotation would probably still be better than any other even if you omit the pot though, but I'd say test that one out.

    Edit: Hitome, I tried to look back at your early rotation video to see if you're pre-queuing oGCD but the video is gone, can you post a video of not being able to do it without a pot?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neon_Sea View Post
    What I have been doing for simplicity sake and since I don't play many fights on blm is;
    pre cast ley lines, B3 sharp+eno, F3 RS, F1, F4 x 4 proc, convert...etc
    I think the problem with this one is the RS won't last for the last FIV. Its only going to be really noticeable if you crit though, so its your preference.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuki View Post
    Snip
    Well that's the thing: latency does matter because there is only one section of this opener where you can regenerate mana or have different mana levels and that is when you cast B3.

    Give it a shot on a dummy. Cast Fire 3, wait till 1 second before astral fire is about to wear, cast B3, and look at the mana differences. Calculate what your mana should have been at if B3 (265 MP cost in AF3) had been granted the benefits of astral fire and what it actually is. Here's two screenshots demonstrating the differences:

    Here's with AF3 about to wear. I'm going to cast B3 at 1 second till AF3 wears but let's take note of the MP I'm at beforehand.

    MP: 9812
    http://i.imgur.com/3Yhy8Vf.png

    Now if you look at the tooltip, B3 should only cost 265 MP.

    9812 - 265 = 9547 MP which is what you should see after casting B3

    But here's what actually happens:

    MP: 8752
    http://i.imgur.com/5LHcyvJ.png

    9812 - 8752 = 1060, the base cost of B3 without AF.

    B3 was given the haste boost of AF3 but not the MP reduction because it had technically worn off, costing 1060 MP instead. This is the base cost of B3 without any AF up and accounts for what you are describing.

    This also happens when casting F3 from a UI3. There is a MP tick that can occur when UI3 wears off but your spell has yet to register on the target according to the server.


    Basically, this is really sloppy programming and a good reason why our mana ticks should be personalized and not based on the server.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuki View Post
    Edit: Hitome, I tried to look back at your early rotation video to see if you're pre-queuing oGCD but the video is gone, can you post a video of not being able to do it without a pot?
    My opener was different, though: Ley + B3 > T1 > Sharp + F3 > Eno + F1 > Raging + F4x3 > F3 > F4 > Convert+SC F4 > F4 > B3

    I like Aikaal's opener better so I got rid of the video. This opener listed above has the same tight timing, though. The only way to solve this problem is either get a lot more spell speed, cut out a F4 from the rotation or something else, or have a really good connection to the server so that AF3 does not wear off at all by the time you're ready to cast B3.

  12. #72
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    Hitome, my initial post already outlined what you're talking about. I even included video of it happening here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuki View Post
    There is a chance that after the third Fire IV cast and in between the fire 3 proc, in the middle of your convert and swiftcast you can get to a point where your astral fire drops off and you get a small tic of mp. When this happens the rotation works out fine. Lucky for me I found this happened to Aikaal and you can see it demonstrated in his video at this timestamp: Clicky here. If you look just before he uses convert you will notice he gets a small MP tic after AF3 wears off moving him from 2167MP to 2394MP before his convert goes off which brings him to 5801MP. If you get this small tic as well, which is definitely NOT guaranteed, you'll be fine. If you don't you simply won't have enough MP to cast blizzard III and will most certainly lose enochian.
    Unless you are low-piety race and solo/partied with neither SCH or AST, The opener is not contingent on getting that mp tick or not. This was my point, I wanted people to know that before practicing solo and wasting pots/food that it wouldn't be possible to do the opener without 264 piety minimum.

    Its not latency based. It doesn't matter if you get that mp tic or not, you'll be able to do the opener in most scenarios except for the extremely rare explicit situation i outlined above.

    What is latency based is if your spells don't get off fast enough to be able to do b3 before af drops off, but as mentioned in my other post, The opener is tight but there was many opportunities for even Aikaals video to speed things up. I think without a pot definitely probably anyone can do it.

    I asked for the video of you doing the new opener because I wanted to see you not be able to do it without a pot. I think its impossible not to, unless you're not pre-queuing the oGCDs you can and spamming b3 button during last FIV cast.

  13. #73
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    Must not have caught that in your OP.

    I asked for the video of you doing the new opener because I wanted to see you not be able to do it without a pot.
    Do you mean with a pot? I am confused about why you want the video but here you go.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb3P0ac9phQ

    I don't get a MP tick where AF3 wears off. I'm the same race as you. Then again, the rotation is quite different. I'd be curious as to the DPS difference between the two but, like you said, this won't matter in a raid setup and when more SSPD is added to our gear.

    Of course, we could always just change to Dunesfolk falafells and hate ourselves.

  14. #74
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    Sorry Hitome I realize I was not very clear about the video! You mentioned before that:
    I have not tested it including a potion BUT if I were to, astral fire would fall off on the 5th fire IV/6th fire IV leading to inability to cast blizzard III. As it stands now, I have 1 second left on astral fire III before I cast blizzard III without a potion.
    I don't see from your video that you have any wasted time, but I was wondering if you use the pot or omit it with this opener if it really doesn't work either way? I meant for this opener: [QS>Sharp>Ley>F3>Eno>F1>RS+Pot>F4x3>F3P>Conv+Swift> F4x3>B3>B4]. If ur solo i think since we have pie issues maybe you can just eat coffee or grab sch/ast friend.

    I feel like this opener is really doable for anyone with omitting the pot (but it would be nice to see you try with the pot) Since you have latency issues you're kinda the only ginea pig i have lol thats why i wanted the video

  16. #76
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    The rotation is tight but it is the highest PPS. If you solo on a Dummy, you need 264 Piety. This is not a problem I have because I play a Lalafell.

  17. #77
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    Got 60 today and tried BLM in a couple hours of Alex farming tonight. Can't say I understand any of the issues people have with BLM, but I do understand how the masses can be really bad at playing it now. There is a bit more to keep track of now (AF/Mana/Enochian) along with slightly longer casts. Apart from the actual boss part of the first turn/floor, I kind of preferred how BLM handled compared to SMN. The (possible) length of T2 and the frequent invulnerable/phase shifts that T3 and T4 have favors BLM more than SMN imo.

    I read some people talking about Enochian adjustments coming; something about it always refreshing to 30s? How it works now is probably the only slight annoyance I have because now sometimes I'll try to refresh at 0s but the server still thinks I have the buff so it gives me a short Enochian refresh. Anyways, even as it is now I find BLM a lot more fun than SMN because it feels like it takes more effort to really be good at it.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuki View Post
    I don't see from your video that you have any wasted time, but I was wondering if you use the pot or omit it with this opener if it really doesn't work either way? I meant for this opener: [QS>Sharp>Ley>F3>Eno>F1>RS+Pot>F4x3>F3P>Conv+Swift> F4x3>B3>B4]. If ur solo i think since we have pie issues maybe you can just eat coffee or grab sch/ast friend.

    I feel like this opener is really doable for anyone with omitting the pot (but it would be nice to see you try with the pot) Since you have latency issues you're kinda the only ginea pig i have lol thats why i wanted the video
    I don't actually have latency issues, though. I probably was just misunderstanding how lag affects our rotation (if at all).


    On another topic, what order are you all aiming for on your Alex. drops?

  19. #79
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    BLm is definitely a skill class now, the disparity between decent and good Blm was already obvious now it is downright glaring. That said I did prefer the old style more and just wish they used things like ley/sharp to add layers and options. Instead they feel incredibly stiff, the casts are so long I feel like there is no room to do anything creative. I am either casting that FIV or loosing dps.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crizto View Post
    Got 60 today and tried BLM in a couple hours of Alex farming tonight. Can't say I understand any of the issues people have with BLM, but I do understand how the masses can be really bad at playing it now. There is a bit more to keep track of now (AF/Mana/Enochian) along with slightly longer casts. Apart from the actual boss part of the first turn/floor, I kind of preferred how BLM handled compared to SMN. The (possible) length of T2 and the frequent invulnerable/phase shifts that T3 and T4 have favors BLM more than SMN imo.

    I read some people talking about Enochian adjustments coming; something about it always refreshing to 30s? How it works now is probably the only slight annoyance I have because now sometimes I'll try to refresh at 0s but the server still thinks I have the buff so it gives me a short Enochian refresh. Anyways, even as it is now I find BLM a lot more fun than SMN because it feels like it takes more effort to really be good at it.
    The change will be to using the Eochian ability, not a simple refresh. Using Bliz4 will still have dim. returns, but using the ability will reset to 30 (the way it should have been from day 1)

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