Thread: Let's talk Warrior (3.0 Heavensward Discussion) - Future Fell Cleave e-peen thread    

Why would they nerf it just because it hits kind of hard? Is WAR parsing at or higher than other DPS? Than BRD? If not, Fell Cleave is fine. Even if it isn't, in the case of BRD it's not WAR's problem.

The 11k Fell Cleave is only because of the fact that ravana takes increased damage during that form. That's not the standard crit (as of now)


WARs outparsing BRDs is nothing new, my WAR used to beat or be within 30-50 dps of roughly 80-90% of the game's BRD population before as well. (not trying to e-peen, just trying to put it in context as a lot of people most likely haven't played with good offensive WARs as the screenshot in question is from one.) However right now WARs are outparsing GOOD BRDs by much more than they should be and this is a multi-tiered issue. The fact that ACT isn't parsing BRD dots properly and the fact that BRD is really screwed on its off GCDS because of the cast time during minuet. Honestly if they feel fell cleave is the issue what they should do to alleviate the issue is lower Fell cleaves damage and increase the damage of fracture to that of scourage. However by comparison to other DPS WAR is in its right spot the main issue is just BRD and maybe Machinist damage right now. They really screwed them over this patch, it might get better once people figure out how to optimize damage in the stance right now too since BRDs playstyle completely changed.


But again keep in mind BRDs damage on ACT is not accurate (to my knowledge) and if you're comparing it to that it's going to be lower. I know skillspeed isn't factoring into dots properly. I'm wondering if minuet is and if anyone's done parse damage with that. I know a few times people have said their DOTs aren't being recognized by ACT.

Originally Posted by LinktheDeme

The 11k Fell Cleave is only because of the fact that ravana takes increased damage during that form. That's not the standard crit (as of now)


WARs outparsing BRDs is nothing new, my WAR used to beat or be within 30-50 dps of roughly 80-90% of the game's BRD population before as well. However right now WARs are outparsing GOOD BRDs by much more than they should be and this is a multi-tiered issue. The fact that ACT isn't parsing BRD dots properly and the fact that BRD is really screwed on its off GCDS because of the cast time during minuet. Honestly if they feel fell cleave is the issue what they should do to alleviate the issue is lower Fell cleaves damage and increase the damage of fracture to that of scourage. However by comparison to other DPS WAR is in its right spot the main issue is just BRD and maybe Machinist damage right now. They really screwed them over this patch, it might get better once people figure out how to optimize damage in the stance right now too since BRDs playstyle completely changed.


But again keep in mind BRDs damage on ACT is not accurate (to my knowledge) and if you're comparing it to that it's going to be lower. I know skillspeed isn't factoring into dots properly. I'm wondering if minuet is and if anyone's done parse damage with that. I know a few times people have said their DOTs aren't being recognized by ACT.

Well right now for BRD WM isn't even worth using. On a dummy it's apparently only 30 DPS ahead of non-WM stance and that is going to disappear once you factor in that you are going to have to move in a real fight. It's pretty much toggle on for initial opening burst then turn it off.

Basically a BRD is a bad comparison because right now it's woefully behind where it should be (not necessarily the same thing as where SE want it to be though!)

I hope people don't knee jerk to that Fell Cleave, it's beautiful to see but just from that screenshot I see Strength Potion + Ravana Increased Damage Stance + Trick Attack.

If WARs are beating Bards legitimately, the problem shouldn't be with WAR and nerfing it, it should be taking a look at what's wrong with Bard.

At the end of the day though, that is a beautiful crit. <3

Originally Posted by Ramset

Personally, I feel that STR focused MT WAR was nerfed in 3.0. Parry scaling taken away, accuracy bonus (have to overspec accuracy to stance dance), Crit removed from Wrath, and now Parry stats being shoved do wn our throats in place of Det or Crit). Plus after they patch the Crit heals off of Raw Intuition, it has a huge downside. Even if you can use awareness, there's still 5 seconds of crits leftover.

Basically, they made MT warrior even harder to play, and are trying to force you to only use Deliverance as an OT. This also makes it easier for bad warriors to do DPS, and then also die because they don't know how to stance dance.

If you need Awareness for the duration of raw intuition on a MT situation, especially for the entire duration of it, you're doing something SIGNIFICANTLY wrong. The only time it is of really use to use it is on pulls because the mobs like to move around and will snag you when you're dodging an aoe and if you're that concerned than cancel raw intuition and you've just taken away ANY downside you can argue while having a guaranteed 15s parry. Honestly having raw intuition SIGNIFICANTLY increased WARs capabilities as now you have three effective cooldowns to use in addition to inner beast. During Ravana Ex there are parts where you can't inner beast Blinding Blade unless you held onto infuriate for it and having another two defensive cooldowns made that a joke.


Deliverance is much welcomed addition to the party, especially considering how PLDs get the shaft on sword oath and shield oath taking a GCD still for some reason. Now you have the ability to switch stances to fracture or you can drop it and play like an old MT war if the situation doesn't allow for it. Inner Beast > Stance swap > Fracture, only 5 seconds of mitigation or just stance swap without it and sneak in a fellcleave if heals are good and you're not expecting any big damage. Or just do the traditional finish combo > inner beast > defiance off > fracture> re-defiance.


Another fun fact about deliverance, because of decimate and the base damage boosted, during AOE pulls with blood bath it's effectively better for self-mitigation. Defiance up the pull > establish one or two over powers for agro > get maim > then deliverance overpower spam with decimates properly. Prior to 60 its a similar situation but you have to use your steel cyclone before going into deliverance. I'm really enjoying 500-700 HP regenerates per mob with decimate to say the least.

All of these cooldowns and changes are much welcomed it did not make anything "harder" and if you feel that way just play the old way. The only thing that is lame is the parry change on defiance, nothing more. While the STR change on parry amount was unappreciated, it didn't change much significantly.

Originally Posted by SilverBreeze

I hope people don't knee jerk to that Fell Cleave, it's beautiful to see but just from that screenshot I see Strength Potion + Ravana Increased Damage Stance + Trick Attack.

If WARs are beating Bards legitimately, the problem shouldn't be with WAR and nerfing it, it should be taking a look at what's wrong with Bard.

At the end of the day though, that is a beautiful crit. <3

This is what I feel as well, regardless of the WAR and BRD gap that's not an indicator of the issue at hand. The issue at hand should be measured by the gap between BRD and DPS classes as the gap wasn't nearly as wide as it is right now. The once that's looked at to re-evaluate where WAR stands in the picture, but again people are judging all of this off ACT and not the actual game values which relies on the assumption ACT is correct, which it isn't currently.



edit: To Raldo, no DEX doesn't impact the parry rate, nor does STR impact the amount mitigated. It's a flat 20% (unless someone has testing that's proved otherwise, but the tooltips been removed in JP versions haven't double checked the NA one after the last emergency maint)

it its nerfing then its nerfing

dont cry cos your toys are broken

even tho i think its not broken

ninja on the other hand got shit handed over......

aeolian being rear is fucking huge... also fuck that shade shift -_-

why is there no ninja thread ; ; ; ;

Originally Posted by Ramset

Perhaps I misrepresented my point about Raw Intuition - you can only use this in a situation which doesn't require you to move or tank multiple enemies at once.

You may want to add during awareness as well, but ideally you pop it before you start having to dodge mob aoes and then awareness once you start having to dodge them.

Originally Posted by Ramset

Overall, what I'm trying to highlight is the changes made to tanking, specifically for warrior, which attempt to make the aggressive STR WAR MT less viable. There is a clear design focus by The XIV team to encourage tank stats (Parry/VIT) and Defiance for main tanking, and Deliverance/other stats for off tanking.

I personally don't think this was the case, especially since they got rid of DEX impacting the rate as well, but it may have been. IMO The evidence points more towards concern of having a primary stat that impacts these. With the way we kept getting more of a stat it was going to hit some sort of ridiculous wall. A 33%+ reduction (Which would have hit much higher values in 60 and more so as we got higher ilevel gear) for 20 seconds would have been rather insane. Having these stats there impacts their ability to put additional defensive abilities and their ability to allow classes to gain more of a stat as the level cap increases. They would have to balance it for both VIT and STR playstyles and if you played in a STR playstyle you'd have a mitigation on par with sentinel for twice the duration(which imo is broken) and if you played in a VIT playstyle you would be penalized.


As long as WARs have heals based on STR/DMG this simply isn't going to be the case ever they'd have to re-adjust those as well. As it stands the ideal meta is still to stack on as much STR and reach the minimum VIT value, The only "heal" based off VIT is Thrill of battle. Bloodbath, Inner Beast, and Equilibrium (still have to do more testing but it appears to be impacted by berserk)