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  1. #21
    Honorary Wanglad
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    Sheltron will never stop being an amusing name to me but I see no reason not to use it on CD now that Shield Swipe gives bonus enmity. Well, aside from maybe saving it for single big hits in Alexander.
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  2. #22

    As long as you're not getting one shot and you hold hate I normally don't care how you do it.

    But...

    The only time I ever got mad was when levi ex was new and this one tank refused to use shield oath or vit because "it's faster". Regen and stoneskin wasn't enough to keep him up, and while I was able to manage my stacks.. mirror farms are supposed to be relaxing, not work, so I left.

    People put different stock into how much work they are willing to do put into certain content, I know if I can put my mind into auto drive I can make a 6 hour farm feel like 10 min. Kind of like when I speed fast in my car the trip feels like it takes longer than if I just chill and put on a good song. So there is value to being lazy when you're into grinding hard, but 99% of the time str tanks don't equate to more work so it doesn't matter.
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  3. #23
    The Defense is ready, Your Honor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edelweiss View Post
    Well it's always good to know those healers who staunchly refused to heal me (and sometimes successfully vote kicked me as soon as 15 minutes had passed) in my hybrid accessories and 30 STR allotment were right about me not knowing my role. How could I have ever successfully tanked anything?
    How'd they know you had 30str?
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  4. #24

    Quote Originally Posted by Carth View Post
    -Sheltron not blocking magic damage is pretty garbage, but on the upside, it restores MP and is on a generous recast of 30s, meaning it's worth using a good amount.
    Think you're underselling this a bit.

    It makes any physical tank buster a joke, but unfortunately what that says to me is that they're going to continue the trend of magical tank busters (Rev, Morn) and/or multi-hit (Claw, Morn).
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  5. #25
    Chram
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    How'd they know you had 30str?
    They didn't; they just assumed correctly. Though this came after FCoB got Echo, so it wasn't as if it had any real detrimental effect on the only thing(s) that mattered.
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  6. #26
    Relic Weapons
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    Assuming STR no longer affects Parry -- gone are the days of the 30% damage mitigation from a successful Parry.

    Imagine that shit combined with Raw Intuition...would have been nice.

    The nerfs just really leave a bad taste in my mouth. It's like they're saying "You're not playing the game properly, this is your punishment for not doing it right. This is how it's supposed to work."
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  7. #27
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    Think you're underselling this a bit.

    It makes any physical tank buster a joke, but unfortunately what that says to me is that they're going to continue the trend of magical tank busters (Rev, Morn) and/or multi-hit (Claw, Morn).
    Not that I'm underselling it: It's obviously good at what it does, but what you speak of the main reason why Sheltron really needed to block magic damage. We didn't really need even more mitigation vs physical bosses. We're the king at that already.
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  8. #28
    RIDE ARMOR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramset View Post
    Assuming STR no longer affects Parry -- gone are the days of the 30% damage mitigation from a successful Parry.

    Imagine that shit combined with Raw Intuition...would have been nice.

    The nerfs just really leave a bad taste in my mouth. It's like they're saying "You're not playing the game properly, this is your punishment for not doing it right. This is how it's supposed to work."
    Clearly, being a manasponge with a billion vitality is how to tank.

    I'll be over here going nope.gif

    While admittedly I've not yet tanked at a high level (having gotten a late start), it does make me wonder what they'd want us to push our bonus stats into if this were the case. I suppose we aren't double-dipping as much from STR now, so there's that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carth View Post
    Not that I'm underselling it: It's obviously good at what it does, but what you speak of the main reason why Sheltron really needed to block magic damage. We didn't really need even more mitigation vs physical bosses. We're the king at that already.
    I suppose if we were able to time a specific physical attack, this would be strong. Assuming that bosses don't continue to Auto Attack while casting, this could, in theory, be used to block One Really Big Hit, perhaps?
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  9. #29
    Chram
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal View Post
    While admittedly I've not yet tanked at a high level (having gotten a late start), it does make me wonder what they'd want us to push our bonus stats into if this were the case. I suppose we aren't double-dipping as much from STR now, so there's that?
    I think you may have some misconception about tanks and STR. We never brought considerable amounts of STR, on either tank, because of the Parry and Block mitigation tiers being tied to amount of STR (and specifically to certain threshold amounts), though was absolutely a neat bonus for trying to aspire for something beyond just fucking turtling and doing shit-tier DPS.

    You pretty much shot for the minimum HP needed to survive those predictable tank busters (since these are the real danger in a given fight), and thereafter just piled on offensive-oriented stats (obviously you'd need to ensure you've capped Accuracy too) to help increase damage output from a (conceptually, I guess? Not sure if this is the right word) under-utilized or overlooked source of easy additional DPS. Obviously the potential ramifications of this were that you possibly pushed phases at a much better point, or just cleared plain faster (which is the best mitigation of all!).

    Another major benefit was that you also generated considerably more hate than the average full-VIT scrub. This would translate into being able to main tank bosses in Sword Oath and the like, while holding hate off full BiS DDs going full ham right off the bat (well, almost all the time barring Firestarter, etc. procs at the start).

    It does definitely seem the devs don't like that skilled/advanced tanks do this, and are now courting measures to disincentivize advanced play in both of the perpetually scarce roles (which is fucking asinine). Of course maybe they just did away with DEX factoring into the rate at which you blocked and parried; given the nerf bonzanza that's going around though, i'm very skeptical STR didn't become a casualty too.
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  10. #30
    Relic Shield
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    Here's a thought about Divine Veil.

    The effect ends when a party member heals you, but does that also account for your own healing? Such as, if you heal a target with Clemency, and get that 50% HP cured, would Divine Veil stay intact?
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  11. #31
    Running Hell
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    I see one of two scenarios. Either A) Divine Veil just doesn't activate a barrier if you heal yourself and just gives the buff from the first party heal you receive or B) It does activate on your own heal but this also eats up the effect so you still only get one barrier. I highly doubt they would let you spam the barrier by self-healing.

    Something I find odd though is it specifically says a barrier is cast on nearby party members and then goes on to say that the barrier is based on the caster's HP. I had originally assumed by caster's HP they meant the person who healed the PLD but maybe it's just a funky way of wording it to say that it's based on the PLD's HP?
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  12. #32
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Given that it's classified as an ability and not a spell, I took the usage of the wording "cast on nearby party members" to indicate that it is actually based on the PLD's HP.

    It would seem somewhat silly to give out a defensive bonus based on the WHM's HP. That might lead to things like VIT-spec'ed healers, which is too creative to be intentional.
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  13. #33
    Relic Shield
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    The wording is needlessly fancy in that case, but I suppose our first level 56 PLD will have to test it out to see which one is the case and I'll edit the OP appropriately. If it's based on Paladin's HP then the ability is definitely PLD's best move because it's essentially LB1.
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  14. #34
    RIDE ARMOR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edelweiss View Post
    I think you may have some misconception about tanks and STR. We never brought considerable amounts of STR, on either tank, because of the Parry and Block mitigation tiers being tied to amount of STR (and specifically to certain threshold amounts), though was absolutely a neat bonus for trying to aspire for something beyond just fucking turtling and doing shit-tier DPS.

    You pretty much shot for the minimum HP needed to survive those predictable tank busters (since these are the real danger in a given fight), and thereafter just piled on offensive-oriented stats (obviously you'd need to ensure you've capped Accuracy too) to help increase damage output from a (conceptually, I guess? Not sure if this is the right word) under-utilized or overlooked source of easy additional DPS. Obviously the potential ramifications of this were that you possibly pushed phases at a much better point, or just cleared plain faster (which is the best mitigation of all!).

    Another major benefit was that you also generated considerably more hate than the average full-VIT scrub. This would translate into being able to main tank bosses in Sword Oath and the like, while holding hate off full BiS DDs going full ham right off the bat (well, almost all the time barring Firestarter, etc. procs at the start).

    It does definitely seem the devs don't like that skilled/advanced tanks do this, and are now courting measures to disincentivize advanced play in both of the perpetually scarce roles (which is fucking asinine). Of course maybe they just did away with DEX factoring into the rate at which you blocked and parried; given the nerf bonzanza that's going around though, i'm very skeptical STR didn't become a casualty too.
    Are you sure the decrease in parry strenght/ block strenght isn't just a matter of SE having adjusted the caps to fit the new increase in gear ilvl (in order to avoid 50 % damage mitigation parry/block at level 60 or other silly stuff like that) rather than a modification of the way strength works ?
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  15. #35
    A. Body
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irvy View Post
    Are you sure the decrease in parry strenght/ block strenght isn't just a matter of SE having adjusted the caps to fit the new increase in gear ilvl (in order to avoid 50 % damage mitigation parry/block at level 60 or other silly stuff like that) rather than a modification of the way strength works ?

    It could be extreme tiers now, we will be able to test better at i150+

    The block rate is tied into your lvl. Aegis goes from blocking 25% to 24% at lvl 52 I believe. Obviously most of us saw that coming due to the how block rates/amounts scale.
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  16. #36
    Relic Shield
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    So got DRK to Level 50 (Before my computer died. lol dat timing), and took at gander at their current level 50 abilities. Dark Arts take roughly 27% of their MP per use, and with Dark Arts, their highest damaging combo (Soul Eater 360 Potency) is one use before Dark Arts wear off, and they have a oneshot at Level 60 that has 450 potency. The name of the ability I can't recall, but it also forces Dark Arts to wear off as well.

    Considering this, I'm thinking PLD at level 60 will have better overall DPS as an OT than DRK will due to the freedom of using Gore Blade and Royal Authority without any limitations. Pretty sure DRK will beat PLD's DPS as a MT on virtue that they'll only get a 5% Damage reduction and keeping up Dark Side is trivial at best, nevermind that their Enmity generating combo deals more damage than PLD's.
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  17. #37
    It's sooo veiny
    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    Yes but Dark Arts can be reused almost instantly and there is a good amount of ways to replenish your mp.
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  18. #38
    A. Body
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    PLDs Shield Oath DPS is going to be pretty blah just like before. No way to counter the -20% dmg really hurts. They made PLD more turtle then ever. Sheltron alone is going be a nice tool (esp with tower shields) for any physical tank buster. It will also free up Bulwark for force procing shield swipe for Emnity.

    PLD OT is going to be a sleeper. Goring (920) > Royal (690) > Royal (690) is extremely potent esp when supplemented with CoS,SW and Sword Oath.
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  19. #39
    Hydra
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    I think it will be more fun on the job than at 50 with new combination attack.
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  20. #40
    a p. sweet dude
    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!

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    Anyone high enough level to try triggering Divine Veil with Clemency yet?
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