Paladin 3.0 - Now with +1 Button

[kisada]

pretty much shows they still don't get it

[Taint]

Well they kinda get it. Emnity, DPS and TP management were the three biggest PLD flaws. We also get shield boost every ilvl jump.

DV got a minor buff. Clemency is still useless.


The biggest flaw remains the same, WAR is still the best and is still required.

[Kipling]

But these changes should make PLD not a painful choice as an MT over DRK now, and I think that was the whole point. Sure, it won't be the best DPS tank combo, but it won't be bad either most likely.

And if aggregate ilvl required to clear is not nearly as high as Gordias, it probably won't be noticeable for anyone but World First raiders.

[Taint]

But these changes should make PLD not a painful choice as an MT over DRK now, and I think that was the whole point. Sure, it won't be the best DPS tank combo, but it won't be bad either most likely.

And if aggregate ilvl required to clear is not nearly as high as Gordias, it probably won't be noticeable for anyone but World First raiders.

Yep as long as another A2 (AoE) or A4 (all magic) doesn't exist its pretty safe to say we'll see plenty of PLDs amongst the first clears.

[Hioki]

Well they kinda get it. Emnity, DPS and TP management were the three biggest PLD flaws. We also get shield boost every ilvl jump.

DV got a minor buff. Clemency is still useless.


The biggest flaw remains the same, WAR is still the best and is still required.

Divine veil got a pretty big upgrade with the swap from str to vit. A bit more shielding without any significant loss in dps. Clemency is still useless.

They still need to

-remove the forced proc
-put oaths ogcd
-give a unique debuff to royal authority
-give a decent aoe/war drum
-remove clemency
-add inspirit
-add a modifier to sheltron to block next weaponskill/magic damage instead of eating autos
-remove the hp reduction from spirits within
-lose the concept of magic vs physical damage mitigation
-rebalance the classes to scale correctly between mitigation and damage.

Along with a slew of other stuff they can still do.

[Eludi]

Divine veil got a pretty big upgrade with the swap from str to vit. A bit more shielding without any significant loss in dps. Clemency is still useless.

They still need to

-remove the forced proc
-put oaths ogcd
-give a unique debuff to royal authority
-give a decent aoe/war drum
-remove clemency
-add inspirit
-add a modifier to sheltron to block next weaponskill/magic damage instead of eating autos
-remove the hp reduction from spirits within
-lose the concept of magic vs physical damage mitigation
-rebalance the classes to scale correctly between mitigation and damage.

Along with a slew of other stuff they can still do.

oGCD oaths would be hilariously broken, on demand 20% mitigation without any real drawback.

[Taint]

oGCD oaths would be hilariously broken, on demand 20% mitigation without any real drawback.

Kinda like WAR has already?

Defiance plus equilibrium = Instant shield oath

Defiance plus Infuriate > IB = Almost capped HP (crit is capped) plus 20% reduction


Every 30 seconds they can pull that off. If you factor in stack management its even more often.

[Hioki]

Create a use for MP and ogcd's would fix pretty quickly when you can't free swap. Your choices now are Oath MP, Flash, stoneskin and clemency. Two of which have lost or never had significant value in 3.0.

[Obsidian]

If they create a use for MP they better fix how long it takes to refill for a PLD. You're only supposed to be doing Riot Blade once every four combos and you can only Sheltron once every 30 seconds. Sheltron only restores enough MP for one Flash, Riot Blade doesn't even give back that much.

[Carth]

So we waited half a year for more deeps? ok.

[solracht]

yeah, I was really hoping for some new CDs to survive A1S

[Carth]

ur funny

[MisterBob]

Kinda like WAR has already?

Defiance plus equilibrium = Instant shield oath

Defiance plus Infuriate > IB = Almost capped HP (crit is capped) plus 20% reduction


Every 30 seconds they can pull that off. If you factor in stack management its even more often.

While WAR is incredibly broken, this isn't true. Comparing burning a 1 minute awesome flexible CD on a stance swap is just not useful, and it's not something any good player would do anyways.

You don't even come close to capping your HP with Defiance -> Infuriate -> IB, and this would be beyond stupid to do in an actual raid, as once again you're burning a 1 minute CD very poorly.



WAR needs to be fixed, and PLD needs to be fixed even more, but uninformed stuff like this is just muddying the waters.

[Taint]

While WAR is incredibly broken, this isn't true. Comparing burning a 1 minute awesome flexible CD on a stance swap is just not useful, and it's not something any good player would do anyways.

You don't even come close to capping your HP with Defiance -> Infuriate -> IB, and this would be beyond stupid to do in an actual raid, as once again you're burning a 1 minute CD very poorly.



WAR needs to be fixed, and PLD needs to be fixed even more, but uninformed stuff like this is just muddying the waters.

In a raid everything is pre-planned. The on demand shield oath swap is pointless since you'll already know whether or not you need shield oath. It would be a DPS increase in a raid setting.

People say oGCD ShO is broken, well it already exist and is not used often as you pointed out.

And yes a Crit IB does come close to capping your HP and so does equilibrium. This will change with 3.2 however as HP is bloated.

[MisterBob]

You cannot rely on crits to cap your HP on a stance swap, that is crazy and stupid.

[solracht]

People say oGCD ShO is broken, well it already exist and is not used often as you pointed out.

But... it doesn't actually exist, or rather, its existence is very limited.

-Defiance > Equilibrium is comparable to an oGCD Oath, but it has a very obvious limitation (can only be done once per minute) and a very obvious drawback (Equlibrium has much better uses).
-Defiance > IB is on the GCD. Not sure why you even brought this up.

EDIT: oGCD Grit/Shield Oath would've been stupid good this last tier, especially in A4S.

[Taint]

You cannot rely on crits to cap your HP on a stance swap, that is crazy and stupid.

I didn't say that did I? You said IB can't come close to capping your HP, when it can.

[Taint]

But... it doesn't actually exist, or rather, its existence is very limited.

-Defiance > Equilibrium is comparable to an oGCD Oath, but it has a very obvious limitation (can only be done once per minute) and a very obvious drawback (Equlibrium has much better uses).
-Defiance > IB is on the GCD. Not sure why you even brought this up.

EDIT: oGCD Grit/Shield Oath would've been stupid good this last tier, especially in A4S.

IB is a GCD yes, but you are still producing DPS and comes with an additional benefit 20% mit. Shield oath loses a GCD when it comes to DPS.

You are agreeing with me. If oGCD is stupid good in your example A4S, why wouldn't using Defiance+Equilibirum be equally as good? And its not like WARs use equilibrium on cooldown for TP, that ability is need 1-2 times a fight for single targets.

The point is nothing would be broken. In a raid setting if you need ShO you'll be in ShO, it will just cost you a GCD. Its a DPS loss and nothing more.

[MisterBob]

I didn't say that did I? You said IB can't come close to capping your HP, when it can.

Why discuss it then? You're discussing PLD vs WAR and the tools available. That is not actually a tool WARs use, so it's not helpful for discussing.

If oGCD is stupid good in your example A4S, why wouldn't using Defiance+Equilibirum be equally as good?

Because it burns a CD you really, really, really should be using elsewhere. CDs are important resources for planning a fight, you don't want to be burning them suboptimally like that. In long fights like A4S (especially if you're using the sac strat), you want Equilibrium to maintain infinite TP on WAR.

If Oaths were oGCD in their current state, they wouldn't be burning a CD. I'm not saying that this isn't necessarily a viable fix for Oaths, but that your comparison is at best useless, and at worst harmful for actual discussion due to how lopsided it is.

[Taint]

Why discuss it then? You're discussing PLD vs WAR and the tools available. That is not actually a tool WARs use, so it's not helpful for discussing.



Because it burns a CD you really, really, really should be using elsewhere. If Oaths were oGCD in their current state, they wouldn't be burning a CD.

That's the point. It IS a tool, its just not used because it doesn't matter.

NOTHING would break because of ShO being oGCD in a raid setting. This isn't FFXI where shit can go hairy because the boss used a shitty TP move 5 times in a row.

If you need ShO you would be in ShO, changing it to oGCD is a DPS increase and nothing more or less.


A4S is never a good example, its an unintended strategy to sack anyone and shouldn't be the basis for Ability use.