Paladin 3.0 - Now with +1 Button

[Eludi]

Well paladin now has the highest tank damage while also having most mitigation so there is that.

[Obsidian]

I dunno, I think that'll depend on how often WAR can realistically crank out Fell Cleaves. They also reduced the damage penalty on Defiance by 5%.

[Black]

Looks like he really did try.

indeed he did try really hard and ruined two jobs and gave everything to PLD, great balance

its gona be First coil all over again 2PLD setup!

[Carth]

Well paladin now has the highest tank damage while also having most mitigation so there is that.

Has this been mathed out to be that way?

[Black]

Has this been mathed out to be that way?

its

Average Potency Per GCD compared to the other tanks, this more or less translates to DPS once all is said and done, more is better. WAR has 458.7 potency/GCD, DRK has 430.6 and PLD has 562.5. That is 30% more potency for PLD than for DRK and 22.8% ahead of WAR. The difference between DRK and WAR is much smaller with WAR being 6.5% ahead of DRK. It is not quite the same % differences in practice for DPS, however unless formulas has changed a lot compared to now, they are good enough as ballpark numbers. This is a very clear disparity between them with the current numbers. The things I have brought up does not attempt to solve this disparity, but rather to solve the problems that exists within a vacuum. This disparity however is something which absolutely needs to be changed and that definitely needs to be looked over by square and confirm that it does not have damage disparities similar to the potency/GCD disparities.
There is also a picture in japanese of Sole Survivor gaining its PvP effect for PvE, which while it would be a good ability is extremely boring and once again adds nothing to the jobs playstyle. It also potentialy creates an undesirable situation where DRKs main selling point would be a large raid damage increase rather than the rest of the kit.
Finally, while I have done my best to guarantee accurate math, there is a chance that I have made errors, if you spot any, please tell me so that I can correct it.


Credit to Arche- on reddit <-----


this is original thread '


https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._2_minute_115/

[Dotsudoku]

If it turns out as such, they can nerf PLD a little and I'd be a-okay. Finally giving us an AoE tool is what I've been waiting for. Feeling compelled to get off of my main job to do faceroll dungeon content was a problem

[Prothescar]

The potency gap is even further exacerbated by the fact that Warrior offers absolutely nothing besides DPS and personal mitigation. Don't tell me slashing debuff, either... it's a part of NIN and SAM's primary DPS rotations now and you're likely to have one of those in your party. DRK might still be alright but honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see the return of 2xPLD meta for a while.

[Shenrien]

Ayyyy we come full circle back to the BCoB 2x PLD meta because fuck warrior in 2.0 days.

[Dein]

The math looks pretty solidly in favor of PLD for sure but I have to wonder if there's really going to be that huge of a gap between PLD and the other tanks when Stormblood releases. Then again, SE left PLD in a pretty terrible spot for all of Gordias so I may be giving them too much credit to expect they'll try to tweak numbers before we actually get the expansion.

[Lucavi]

The potency gap is even further exacerbated by the fact that Warrior offers absolutely nothing besides DPS and personal mitigation. Don't tell me slashing debuff, either... it's a part of NIN and SAM's primary DPS rotations now and you're likely to have one of those in your party. DRK might still be alright but honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see the return of 2xPLD meta for a while.

War does look pretty damned selfish at this point. I'm also concerned a bit about the loss of bloodbath. I storm's path healing going to be enough for an OT war to sustain themselves? It was very fun in 3.X knowing that healers could effectively ignore me, as all of my self-healing was enough to avoid many mechanics while DPSing and fear nothing.

[Obsidian]

WAR will still be miles better at burst damage than PLD and it's still the best AoE DPS as well. Without knowing what the new raid is like it's hard to put a value on the mobility options WAR (and to a lesser extent DRK) has over PLD (Shake it Off is just a much better version of Tempered Will, and Onslaught lets them move around much more easily), but there is and will always be an obvious benefit to bursting down adds, and WAR will still be the best at it.

But reddit already wants PLD nerfed so that was fun while it lasted.

[Alkimi]

War does look pretty damned selfish at this point. I'm also concerned a bit about the loss of bloodbath. I storm's path healing going to be enough for an OT war to sustain themselves? It was very fun in 3.X knowing that healers could effectively ignore me, as all of my self-healing was enough to avoid many mechanics while DPSing and fear nothing.

Well they do have Rampart now. I think most WARs would take that any day over Bloodbath.

[Obsidian]

In a raid setting certainly. Arguably Bloodbath was better for them in dungeons because of AoE spam but the difference is probably negligible. More of a job "flavor" issue than anything else.

[solracht]

Even if they change PLD potencies, that's not going to fix the playstyle/utility issues for the other tanks and if Heavensward is any indication those aren't going to be addressed for the next 2 years.

Things definitely aren't looking good for DRK+WAR setups. At this point all I'm hoping for is enough changes to stop PLD+PLD from becoming the optimal choice.

[Jem]

Always annoys me when people cry about one of the worst jobs being buffed. Yes, we shouldn't get in a position where one job is just outright way superior than all other options. But when said job has been the worst option at all points for the last 2 years then at least give it 1 fucking patch cycle and to see what content raids look like before crying for nerfs. Then if it obvious that PLDx2 is the optimal, then things need to change.

I'm sure a lot of the people wanting PLD nerfs would be happy for things to remain exactly as they are now and for PLD to continue to lag behind.

[Black]

^ not sure what you reading, no one crying for nerfs, PLD got it deserved buffs, whats bothering most of us why would you buff job and smash the other two tanks when you don't need to

[Carth]

Reddit is certainly crying for nerfs. Most sensible people (i.e. people that are actually good at the game) are saying that WAR/DRK should just deal more damage than PLD if they're not gonna have any utility whatsoever. This in itself is a problem since this game is heavily biased towards damage, and none of the tanks provides party buffs that increases raid damage (disregarding WAR's slashing, which is most likely a non-factor if SAM and NIN will be putting them on regardless).

That said what a lot of people are forgetting is that while PLD's AoE was buffed, it's still pretty bad. Just now it can actually put up numbers. WAR and DRK are still quite a bit ahead. PLD having the highest DPS on single targets actually makes sense when you think of it that way.

[solracht]

PLD is 23% potency per GCD ahead in single target (see the thread Black linked) and AOE capabilities are rarely a consideration or advantage in raids outside of very specific fights. It's not that people are forgetting, it just doesn't matter.

On top of the DPS disparity, PLD still has a good loadout of personal mitigation skills, on-demand mitigation usable in DPS stance at no DPS loss (also usable back to back if you pool resources), a complete monopoly on full party utility/mitigation skills (there are no Veil/Arms equivalents anymore), and the most single target utility skills (Intervention, Cover). They also have things like the ability to do a strong 10s long burst window every minute (with a 25y range), the only DOT skill among all tanks, and significant self-sustain capabilities if encounters ever require that sort of thing.

It's a really strong job in every aspect now - the revamp very much focused on PLD's weaknesses and while I definitely think they overcompensated them in some ways (see the new FoF for an example of something that really shouldn't exist) ultimately I fully agree with those saying the real problem is they butchered DRK's and WAR's party utility and perks in the process (I'd add gameplay here too). They pretty much flipped the tables entirely.

Honestly even if they gave DRK/WAR obscene DPS capabilities I feel like PLD would still have a locked place in week 1-2 progression, it'd just become pointless once you started overgearing and this tank paradigm would create an entirely different set of issues so I'm not a fan of that idea either. To me it seems like they might need to go back to the drawing board with some of the changes for all tanks, and I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. I just hope it doesn't take 2 years.

[Obsidian]

None of the three have anything like Storm's Path. None of them are going to be *required* for anything, which is a significant improvement over the last ~3 years. PLD still can't heal itself like WAR (and DRK?) can, it still can't match WAR's AoE or burst damage, it still can't restore its own TP like WAR, WAR still has a better on-demand mitigation toolkit than PLD.

Even if PLD ends up the best of the three, all three look to be perfectly usable in any combination.

[Lucavi]

In a raid setting certainly. Arguably Bloodbath was better for them in dungeons because of AoE spam but the difference is probably negligible. More of a job "flavor" issue than anything else.

I'll concede that, and I agree with you.

Changes and tweaks aside, I trust SE far more than I did at the end of 2.X to make smart decisions for jobs that won't butcher them too badly. They're certainly listening to people far more than they ever have. Ever.

In their entire history as a company.