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Thread: Monk 3.0     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #21
    Bagel
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    I'm coming for you, Snoct...

  2. #22
    THE FAIRY CAT
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    Meditation Recast time reduced from 1.5 seconds to 1.2 seconds.

    The Forbidden Chakra The delay before using your next action has been reduced.

    Tornado Kick Recast time reduced from 60 seconds to 40 seconds.

    Greased Lightning Damage bonus increased from 9% to 10%.
    Duration increased from 12 seconds to 14 seconds.
    Duration in PVP increased from 24 seconds to 28 seconds.

    Greased Lightning II Damage bonus increased from 18% to 20%.
    Duration increased from 12 seconds to 14 seconds.
    Duration in PVP increased from 24 seconds to 28 seconds.

    Greased Lightning III Damage bonus increased from 27% to 30%.
    Duration increased from 12 seconds to 14 seconds.
    Duration in PVP increased from 24 seconds to 28 seconds.
    Initial thoughts on these:

    - MNKs should no longer drop GL during hand transition in A3, or during quarantine/boss attack in A4 (You could usually keep this up anyways, though)
    - 3% damage increase overall.

    Things to test:

    - Tornado kick with its shorter cooldown may potentially be part of the rotation now. I'll have to parse this out to see if this pulls ahead and report back with findings.

  3. #23

    I very much doubt getting rid of 30% damage for a ~350 potency attack is going to be worthwhile but I suppose that would make things more interesting. Seems to me MNK gets a bit more mileage out of their normal DPS and a bit more bang for their buck when using TFC/Tornado Kick.

    Still doesn't make MNK interesting, and Meditation should be instant out of combat (and/or straight away stackable to 5).

  4. #24
    Theory Fighter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoctopus View Post
    Initial thoughts on these:

    - MNKs should no longer drop GL during hand transition in A3, or during quarantine/boss attack in A4 (You could usually keep this up anyways, though)
    - 3% damage increase overall.

    Things to test:

    - Tornado kick with its shorter cooldown may potentially be part of the rotation now. I'll have to parse this out to see if this pulls ahead and report back with findings.
    Is it really worth it to trade a 300 potency OGCD for losing GL and having to rebuild it? Specially when PB isn't available. My MNK is level 50 and I always sucked at it, but I don't think it's a good tradeoff, at least without PB.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taim Meich View Post
    Is it really worth it to trade a 300 potency OGCD for losing GL and having to rebuild it? Specially when PB isn't available. My MNK is level 50 and I always sucked at it, but I don't think it's a good tradeoff, at least without PB.
    It may not come out ahead. If I were to guess, I'd assume the rotation stays as-is. But! I think it's worth at least investigating to see if it has a place now.

    You're probably correct in assuming that it doesn't, though.

  6. #26
    CoP Dynamis
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    IIRC someone mathed out that TK would need to be over 500 potency to be a DPS gain and that's still only if you can PB immediately.

    IMO they need to throw out the entire premise of this skill. It's so mindbogglingly worthless... and SE changing the CD by 20 seconds just shows how out of touch they are. How the fuck does that even change anything?

  7. #27
    Ze NinjaSYXX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoctopus View Post
    Initial thoughts on these:

    - MNKs should no longer drop GL during hand transition in A3, or during quarantine/boss attack in A4 (You could usually keep this up anyways, though)
    - 3% damage increase overall.

    Things to test:

    - Tornado kick with its shorter cooldown may potentially be part of the rotation now. I'll have to parse this out to see if this pulls ahead and report back with findings.
    The only time to use TK for me would be before any boss transitions when you know you're going to lose GL, but now there is going to be a ton of testing at this point considering these extra 2 seconds are gonna be amazing.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitsuki View Post
    The only time to use TK for me would be before any boss transitions when you know you're going to lose GL, but now there is going to be a ton of testing at this point considering these extra 2 seconds are gonna be amazing.
    Yeah. For me it was:

    - right before Oppressors jump in A1 (~2 seconds after missiles hit)
    - After 6th double slap in A3 when there are two hands
    - Multiple points in Ravana fight
    - last hit of any boss

    TBH, I don't really feel that the GL change was merited/needed. I think that overall Monk was in a really good place. Job just got needlessly easy.

  9. #29
    Sea Torques
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    Mnk should be doing 10% more DPS not 3%.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detzu View Post
    Mnk should be doing 10% more DPS not 3%.
    How do you figure? GL3 increase is only 3%, and most fights where the GL change comes into play you often didn't even drop GL anyways if you were on point with form shift.

  11. #31
    CoP Dynamis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitsuki View Post
    there is going to be a ton of testing at this point considering these extra 2 seconds are gonna be amazing.
    The 2 seconds of extra GL doesn't really warrant testing. It won't change your rotation in any way outside of the opener. With enough SS you might be able to get a second filler in to each rotation now... example, DK>Twin>3rd>Filler>BS>True>3rd>Filler might be possible now whereas before you could only do 1 filler per rotation. Filler basically being ToD or Fracture. But even this wont be necessary most of the time for obvious reasons.

  12. #32
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    The 2 seconds seems bigger to me for all those situations were it drops about .000001 seconds before you are able to reapply it. That is HUGE.

  13. #33
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    That's the main intention. My point is that those 2 seconds don't change your rotation/directly effect your dps.

  14. #34
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    I guess the GL potency buff sorta makes sense. One of MNK's issues this content cycle is that it's more or less even with the other melee DPS (or slightly lower) while not really providing any synergy or incease in Raid dps which NIN and DRG can do. Having MNK do more ST damage balances this out. Also, with the duration increase MNK might actually manage to keep GL now while doing LB cause even keeping GL with LB1 is a bitch.

  15. #35

    Add that MNK DPS is always a fucking effort and we didn't really get any DPS increase toys from 50+ while DRG and NIN get a few. Given all that, I think 3% increase is still kinda shitty but slowly it's all getting better.

  16. #36
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    Yeah the 3% (actually 2.6%) doesn't really change things. DRG/NIN is still the ideal party comp.

    The reduced chakra time is cool. Wondering if I can get 5 off before phase2 in a3s

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    Add that MNK DPS is always a fucking effort and we didn't really get any DPS increase toys from 50+ while DRG and NIN get a few.
    Yeah, no. Elixir Field alone is 660 potency single target every 90 seconds. Dream+Duality is 620 and 320 of it can't crit (neither can the main hit of duality, but we'll ignore that). Armor Crush is an extra 240 potency every 90 seconds.

    660 potency on 1.467(old) or 1.502 (new) multiplier vs 840 on 1.2 multiplier. So 968 (old) or 991 (new) for MNK vs 1008. And that's purely ideal comparisons for NIN; not considering the inability to crit (~57 potency loss from quick math but I'm not sure I modeled it accurately), possibility of missing positionals, ignoring Ninjutsu inefficiencies, assuming AE is ready immediately for Duality; compared to pretty minimal MNK assumptions. If you hit just 1 extra target every 8th use (4 min) for old, or every 19th use (9.5 min) for new, you're outright beating NIN.

    And this is just comparing a single MNK tool to all 3 of NIN's.

  18. #38

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtyHobo View Post
    Yeah, no. Elixir Field alone is 660 potency single target every 90 seconds. Dream+Duality is 620 and 320 of it can't crit (neither can the main hit of duality, but we'll ignore that). Armor Crush is an extra 240 potency every 90 seconds.

    660 potency on 1.467(old) or 1.502 (new) multiplier vs 840 on 1.2 multiplier. So 968 (old) or 991 (new) for MNK vs 1008. And that's purely ideal comparisons for NIN; not considering the inability to crit (~57 potency loss from quick math but I'm not sure I modeled it accurately), possibility of missing positionals, ignoring Ninjutsu inefficiencies, assuming AE is ready immediately for Duality; compared to pretty minimal MNK assumptions. If you hit just 1 extra target every 8th use (4 min) for old, or every 19th use (9.5 min) for new, you're outright beating NIN.

    And this is just comparing a single MNK tool to all 3 of NIN's.
    Elixir field is a DPS increase, but what else is? You can only compare the single MNK tool because that's all we got.

    TFC is most effective as TP because it's generally too unwieldly to use for consistent damage, TK is still a stupid idea and basically merits a loss anyway and Form Shift is basic utility. And let's not talk about missing positionals to a MNK.

    Point is MNK needed more damage if it was going to keep up with the usefulness of DRG or NIN.

    And I suppose you ignored DRG because it's ridiculous right?

  19. #39
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    I ignored DRG because I honestly dislike everything about its playstyle from 2.x, nor do we have one in our group, so I know next to nothing about their current tools.

    I'm fully aware of MNK positionals, but even with them in 2.x, MNK beat NIN. So when strictly comparing new tools, which is what you said, positionals are irrelevant to MNK and relevant to NIN.

    Chakra being used for TP or direct damage is a damage boost either way, running out of TP is a very real problem for NIN since their gear has comparatively more skillspeed, higher base TP costs to begin with, no additional way to restore their own TP. TK is situational, yes, but it's a boost when it's relevant.

    Fuck it, let's say it's a dummy-esque fight, no gaps to charge chakra. Just one use of Forbidden at the start (I'll even throw in using it vanilla to minimize its impact) of the parse and one use of TK at the end. How long would the fight need to be for NIN's new tools to beat MNK's new tools at the new/old GL?

    FC is 320 * 1.05 (FoF) / 1.1 (removing DK which was held constant previously) for 305, TK is 484, totaling 789. At -40 per 90 seconds, that's twenty-nine minutes for the old potencies.

    MNK's new tools are objectively better than NIN's, and MNK was a stronger DPS to begin with.

  20. #40
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    Where are people getting these TK numbers?

    Did it use to be 500 or something?

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