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Thread: Monk 3.0     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #41

    The only fight I can think MNK has a real advantage is dummy esque, anything else more complicated means shit isn't so straightforward.

    MNKs DPS increases don't match what NIN can do with Trick Attack, the synergy it has with WAR and self buffs. I'm comparing new tools because MNK needed new tools to increase it's own DPS, but instead got TP recovery, a good aoe skill, quality of life x2. It's DPS and playstyle are mostly the same, while DRG got a lot better and NIN got a lot more useful.

  2. #42
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    I think you're underselling elixir field a tad.

    But also, MNKs usefulness took a big hit with the introduction of delerium

  3. #43

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmakan View Post
    I think you're underselling elixir field a tad.

    But also, MNKs usefulness took a big hit with the introduction of delerium
    Not my intention, I leave out Elixir Field a lot because it's perfect and even if it didn't look like a Kamahame-ha I would still like it.

  4. #44
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    The more often an enemy leaves long enough to lose GL3, the more often you get to use TK and Forbidden, so dummy-esque fights minimize their impact. The point I'm making is that getting just a single one of each off every half a goddamn hour is enough to equalize the incredibly minor difference in DPS addition between Elixir Field alone and all 3 of NIN's new tools. Yes, MNK suffers more from breaks than NIN, but that is not a new issue. The majority of fights in this game have breaks, but that's hardly ever stopped MNK from dominating the parses.

    Saying MNK got the shorter end of the stick with new DPS tools compared to NIN is patently false.

  5. #45
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    Wheres the 484 number for TK coming from?

  6. #46

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtyHobo View Post
    The more often an enemy leaves long enough to lose GL3, the more often you get to use TK and Forbidden, so dummy-esque fights minimize their impact. The point I'm making is that getting just a single one of each off every half a goddamn hour is enough to equalize the incredibly minor difference in DPS addition between Elixir Field alone and all 3 of NIN's new tools. Yes, MNK suffers more from breaks than NIN, but that is not a new issue. The majority of fights in this game have breaks, but that's hardly ever stopped MNK from dominating the parses.

    Saying MNK got the shorter end of the stick with new DPS tools compared to NIN is patently false.
    NIN was always more comfortable as a DPS than MNK, but it got stronger and more useful while already being fast and to deny that is just stupid. You don't get that NIN offers more than just straight DPS because that's MNKs problem, it just has DPS and now that Delirium exists it has even less place to be selfish.

    The point is that DRG and NIN both got better tools than MNK did.

  7. #47

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmakan View Post
    Wheres the 484 number for TK coming from?
    330 * 1.05 * 1.1 * 1.27 = 484

    [TK potency] * [FoF] * [TS] * [GL]

    With the GL changes 1.27->1.3 to make it 495.

  8. #48
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    Except I do get that, because I play(ed) NIN for our group. Yes, it gets stronger, because that's what free off-GCD potency does. But oh, wait. MNK gets that, too. And a better version of it. And skills that help alleviate their biggest weakness. And TP self-sufficiency. What new utility did NIN get, then? The ability to mess with people's enmity. Neat trick, but it's only useful in incredibly good groups or incredibly bad groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmakan View Post
    Wheres the 484 number for TK coming from?
    330 (base) * 1.05 (FoF) * 1.27 (old GL3) * 1.1 (TS)

  9. #49

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtyHobo View Post
    Except I do get that, because I play(ed) NIN for our group. Yes, it gets stronger, because that's what free off-GCD potency does. But oh, wait. MNK gets that, too. And a better version of it. And skills that help alleviate their biggest weakness. And TP self-sufficiency. What new utility did NIN get, then? The ability to mess with people's enmity. Neat trick, but it's only useful in incredibly good groups or incredibly bad groups.
    What does MNK offer? INT down, Blunt damage+ (useful if you have 2 MNKs), loldispel and 20%+ healing. Of those only 20% healing is unique and useful, but NIN also gets a 5% version of that (so does DRG LOL). So try to understand that MNK needs more than just being a bit more comfortable at doing what it already did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtyHobo View Post
    330 (base) * 1.05 (FoF) * 1.27 (old GL3) * 1.1 (TS)
    Ok, makes sense.

    Then why do you list FC as only 305? (apologies, been spending too much time on reddit/OF where they use magical math)

  11. #51
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    Why are you continuously bringing up old things when I've specifically stated the discussion, and your comment which started this, is about 50+ abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmakan View Post
    Then why do you list FC as only 305? (apologies, been spending too much time on reddit/OF where they use magical math)
    320 (base) * 1.05 (FoF) / 1.1 (removing DK, since I had made earlier calculations assuming debuff was always present for both jobs)

    Partly for emphasis (by making it less powerful than it actually would be, it proves how strong it is even in sub-optimal conditions), partly because I don't know exactly where it fits in the standard MNK opener to know the true multipliers, so rather than just guess at them, I drop them. It's basically acting as if you do Forbidden as literally your first skill, no buffs/debuffs.

  12. #52

    Because you took the quote to think I only cared that NIN got DPS tools when I was just too lazy to be specific for it and DRG. When the point (that I've repeatedly made) is that the shit MNK got wasn't good enough in comparison.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtyHobo View Post
    Why are you continuously bringing up old things when I've specifically stated the discussion, and your comment which started this, is about 50+ abilities?



    320 (base) * 1.05 (FoF) / 1.1 (removing DK, since I had made earlier calculations assuming debuff was always present for both jobs)

    Partly for emphasis (by making it less powerful than it actually would be, it proves how strong it is even in sub-optimal conditions), partly because I don't know exactly where it fits in the standard MNK opener to know the true multipliers, so rather than just guess at them, I drop them. It's basically acting as if you do Forbidden as literally your first skill, no buffs/debuffs.
    In the standard MNK opener you basically have GL III + DK + TwS + B4B + IR and X potion up when you're ready to use FC.

  14. #54
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    With the GL duration change and the meditation recast time reduction, you can do meditation 5 times and still maintain GL3.

    Very useful for phase changes in A3S

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmakan View Post
    With the GL duration change and the meditation recast time reduction, you can do meditation 5 times and still maintain GL3.

    Very useful for phase changes in A3S
    Regardless of what form you're on? Previously on A3 for man -> hand transition if you hadn't reapplied GL as your last hit it was a little shaky if you could keep it up.

  16. #56
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    Yep, doesnt matter what stance you are on. I've only had it fall off once and thats when it became untargettable 0.1s before my next GCD.

    GL3 lasts 14 secs, and it only takes 6secs to charge up 5 stacks of chakra. Leaves you with 8 secs to do a full rotation.

  17. #57
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    So apparently you can do Forbidden Chakra AND Purification off of the same stacks of Chakra.

    Working as intended, right?

  18. #58
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    Dark Arts bug all over again, how they didn't think of that is beyond me but it will definitely get fixed if true.

    Speaking of the changes though, anyone come up with a new better opener? Seems like you probably don't need to worry nearly as much about losing GL3 by fucking up your PB combo, got time to squeeze in a couple of True Strikes or something maybe?

  19. #59
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    Tried out the Purification+Forbidden Chakra and it definitely works. Pretty easy to pull off too.

    There's a decent discussion on the OF forums about how the opener may change. For now im sticking with what ive been doing since its muscle memory at this point.

  20. #60

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiarax View Post
    Dark Arts bug all over again
    Which was just the quick-cast AFIII bug all over again.

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