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Thread: Monk 3.0     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #1
    Ze NinjaSYXX
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    Monk 3.0

    Starting a new discussion as the previous Monk thread was closed on the other forum. Let's talk theories, new Openers for lvl 60, share thoughts!

    How much is everyone lvl 60 dpsing?

    Personally i'm working on a new opener, tho i'm not sure if i could be suggested a better one.

    this is off the top of my head as i'm not in the game atm.

    Shoulder Tackle > Demolish > PB > Snap punch > B4B > Snap Punch > IR > DK > TwS > Snap > ToD > Forbidden Chakra > Steel Peak > Bootshine > Howling Fist > True Strike > Elixir Field > Demolish > Reapply DK > TwS > Snap.

    Continue on for the rest. I'm racking up about 1100 - 1200 dps w/ i180 weapon on full i180, not sure if low or not. Not applying Mercy stroke and not bothering w/ Fracture, no str pt bonus, no str pots, nor food in this parse.

  2. #2
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    I would tend to put B4B once GL3 is up otherwise it looks like a good bursty opener. My question, would be : in a fight where there's no down time, how would you rebuild your chakra stacks? Chakra is on GCD so basically every time you use it you lose 1 GCD, 5 GCD to rebuild then it's a DPS loss. Wouldn't it be better to use the TP restore ability and use fracture instead of FC?

  3. #3
    Ze NinjaSYXX
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    I'm assuming with no downtime, forbidden chakra wouldn't be necessary, keep invig stocked and use chakra tp. I need to learn how to weave in fracture, so far i haven't been using it, but w/ SkS changes, i should be adding it. I just need to learn to put it in. The opener is still being worked on for my muscle memory, but i will need to tweak it. Forbidden chakra also seems a bit borked in the sense that i have to mash it so many times cuz it doesn't seem to queue like other OCDs and it throws you off badly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitsuki View Post
    I'm assuming with no downtime, forbidden chakra wouldn't be necessary, keep invig stocked and use chakra tp. I need to learn how to weave in fracture, so far i haven't been using it, but w/ SkS changes, i should be adding it. I just need to learn to put it in. The opener is still being worked on for my muscle memory, but i will need to tweak it. Forbidden chakra also seems a bit borked in the sense that i have to mash it so many times cuz it doesn't seem to queue like other OCDs and it throws you off badly.
    FC queue is actually an issue that they will fix on tuesday.

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    Would it be a dps increase to use TK when PB is up mid rotation?

  6. #6

    I just thought of this opener but I haven't tested if its a DPS increase or not to the standard one. It fits Tornado Kick in between while PB is still up.

    Demo > ToD > B4B > PB > Snap > IR > Snap > TK > Snap > Snap > Snap > DK > TwS > Howling > Demo > Elixir > Boot > Forbidden > True > Snap > etc.

    Still iffy about it because there isn't DK/TwS in it.

    An alternate opener that fits it might work, but might not be a DPS increase to the standard.

    (Opo form) ToD > DK > TwS, then the above opener (minus ToD).

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by olieebur View Post
    I just thought of this opener but I haven't tested if its a DPS increase or not to the standard one. It fits Tornado Kick in between while PB is still up.

    Demo > ToD > B4B > PB > Snap > IR > Snap > TK > Snap > Snap > Snap > DK > TwS > Howling > Demo > Elixir > Boot > Forbidden > True > Snap > etc.

    Still iffy about it because there isn't DK/TwS in it.

    An alternate opener that fits it might work, but might not be a DPS increase to the standard.

    (Opo form) ToD > DK > TwS, then the above opener (minus ToD).
    Not sure if you'll be able to squeeze in DK and TwS, unless your ping is that low. On EU server I'm pretty sure no one can squeeze in DK and TwS in this rotation even with WTfast.

    Edit : nvm just realized that you're starting a new rotation with DK and the snap before is the last under PB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by olieebur View Post
    I just thought of this opener but I haven't tested if its a DPS increase or not to the standard one. It fits Tornado Kick in between while PB is still up.

    Demo > ToD > B4B > PB > Snap > IR > Snap > TK > Snap > Snap > Snap > DK > TwS > Howling > Demo > Elixir > Boot > Forbidden > True > Snap > etc.

    Still iffy about it because there isn't DK/TwS in it.

    An alternate opener that fits it might work, but might not be a DPS increase to the standard.

    (Opo form) ToD > DK > TwS, then the above opener (minus ToD).
    Demo > ToD > B4B > PB > Snap > IR > Snap > TK > Snap > Snap > Snap > DK > TwS > Howling > Demo > Elixir > Boot > Forbidden > True > Snap > etc.
    Going by your first example :
    326(1 tic clipped from this demo to next)> 309 > 226 >245 > 484 > 208 > 227 > 245 > 220 > 205 > 270 > 559 > 349 > 357 (b4b wears off)> 469 > 279 > 264 = 5242

    Your 2nd example:
    ToD > DK > TwS > Demo > b4b/PB > Snap > IR > Snap > TK > Snap > Snap > Snap > DK > TwS > Howling > Demo > Elixir > Boot
    284 > 158 >163 > 321(2 dot clip probably) > 276 >300 > 582 > 254 > 276 >300 > 264 > 247 > 300 > 568 > 388 > 397 = 5105

    I believe this is approximately the current standard without using Tornado Kick:
    Demo > B4B/PB > snap > IR > snap > steel > Twin > Howling > DK > Elixir > snap> Forbidden > ToD > boot > true > Demo(b4b wears) > DK > twin > Snap
    326 > 227 > 245 > 220 > 205 > 270 > 238 >388 > 317 > 564 > 385 >397 > 335 >568 >244> 228> 293 = 5450


    Things to note:
    For your first example, you don't steel peak in the rotation, so that's also a potency increase
    For the 2nd example, I cut it at your previous bootshine on this rotation just to keep it in line with the 13 gcds you gave me for the first opener
    For the 3rd set, Something to note is that total potency does not take into account that at the time ToD is applied and the last ability to that only has 4 tics worth of potency but is NOT reflected in the total potency that I listed so if you actually wanted to stop all the damage on all 3 examples, the last setup would be less potency than listed do to it being only 4 tics.

    However this brings me to my next point, 13 gcds is not enough of a sample to be able to map out how this will effect everything in the long run. I think you would need at least one minute or two minutes worth of gcds to really see how your rotation + opener will pan out.

    If I fumbled any numbers with potency+ buffs please let know as this was done at 3am and dyslexia can be mean at this hour when trying to plug in numbers and you plug them in differently from the sheet to the post..

    Edit: cleaned up the numbers

  9. #9
    Ze NinjaSYXX
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    Monk 3.0

    Also, how much skill speed is needed to possibly fit 6 GCDs in PB? With ravex weapon and working on some alex gear, 5 GCDs seems to be a comfortable amount. It seems a little bothersome to not apply dk>tws cuz you would do demo snap snap > tk > snap snap snap. After PB ends, you have no form, so applying dk after pb does not put the debuff on the enemy. I would assume with higher sks in higher ilvls in the future we may end up seeing 6 GCDs comfortably, i doubt it would ever be 7.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitsuki View Post
    Also, how much skill speed is needed to possibly fit 6 GCDs in PB? With ravex weapon and working on some alex gear, 5 GCDs seems to be a comfortable amount. It seems a little bothersome to not apply dk>tws cuz you would do demo snap snap > tk > snap snap snap. After PB ends, you have no form, so applying dk after pb does not put the debuff on the enemy. I would assume with higher sks in higher ilvls in the future we may end up seeing 6 GCDs comfortably, i doubt it would ever be 7.
    Too much SS for us to every reach probably. At 600-624 We have GCDs at 2.04 seconds I believe. Not enough for a 6th skill to be fit in for PB. Also Hive + full alexander 190 gear puts our skill at around 549 or so , so we actually lose a good chunk of SS from the current BiS. That being said the 624 skill speed you could almost get 6 skills in(75% of the way to get the 6th skill off), so I would say you could get 6 probably at 650 maybe... However you cant TK because TK would reset your GCD timer which is why you can never currently get 6 while using TK outside of rediculous SS , 700+ probably how knows.

  11. #11

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitoseijuro View Post
    Demo > ToD > B4B > PB > Snap > IR > Snap > TK > Snap > Snap > Snap > DK > TwS > Howling > Demo > Elixir > Boot > Forbidden > True > Snap > etc.
    Going by your first example :
    326(1 tic clipped from this demo to next)> 308 > 223 >239 > 469 > 207 > 223 > 239 > 213 > 199 > 258 > 532 > 334 > 342 (b4b wears off)> 454 > 270 > 256 = 5183

    Your 2nd example:
    ToD > DK > TwS > Demo > b4b/PB > Snap > IR > Snap > TK > Snap > Snap > Snap > DK > TwS > Howling > Demo > Elixir > Boot
    284 >158 > 161 > 318(probably 2 ticks clipped) > 260 > 275 > 535 > 243 > 259 > 275 > 243 > 227 > 275 > 539 > 356 > 365 = 4473

    I believe this is approximately the current standard without using Tornado Kick:
    Demo > B4B/PB > snap > IR > snap > steel > Twin > Howling > DK > Elixir > snap> Forbidden > ToD > DK > Twin > Demo(b4b wears) > Boot > True > Snap
    326 > 223 > 238 > 213 > 199 > 258 > 228 > 356 > 291 > 518 > 412 > 243 > 227 > 539 > 342 > 289 > 274 = 5086


    Things to note:
    For your first example, you don't steel peak in the rotation, so that's also a potency increase
    For the 2nd example, I cut it at your previous bootshine on this rotation just to keep it in line with the 13 gcds you gave me for the first opener
    For the 3rd set, I personally prefer after the PB opener to be boot -> true -> demo -> dk -> twin -> snap, just so that boot/true get the B4b rather than dk/twin which you already have the buffs from the PB opener, however for this 13 gcds this way actually provides more potency since using boot on the 2nd round makes the potency go from 150 to 225 which is more than the 10% b4b buff is going to be giving you from non crit boot and true strike it would seem. Another thing to add is that total potency does not take into account that at the time ToD is applied and the last ability to that only has 4 tics worth of potency but is NOT reflected in the total potency that I listed so if you actually wanted to stop all the damage on all 3 examples, the last setup would be less potency than listed do to it being only 4 tics.

    However this brings me to my next point, 13 gcds is not enough of a sample to be able to map out how this will effect everything in the long run. I think you would need at least one minute or two minutes worth of gcds to really see how your rotation + opener will pan out.

    If I fumbled any numbers with potency+ buffs please let know as this was done at 3am and dyslexia can be mean at this hour when trying to plug in numbers and you plug them in differently from the sheet to the post..
    Thanks for this. I actually tried doing the TK rotation in game and it's actually not possible. You can't fit in 5 gcds during PB when you use TK because you lose the SS from GL so that rotation is pretty much shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by olieebur View Post
    Thanks for this. I actually tried doing the TK rotation in game and it's actually not possible. You can't fit in 5 gcds during PB when you use TK because you lose the SS from GL so that rotation is pretty much shot.
    What is your SS at? I can assure you that at 547 skill speed, you can do 5 gcds + TK as I personally went out to try your first rotation which is why I know at which point B4B drops at. For your first example as an opener you need to decide where you are going to stick steel peak, and also you should move forbidden one off-gcd higher, so just swap forbidden with elixir so forbidden recieves the b4b buff over elixir.

  13. #13

    Sorry just tried again and it does fit, just barely. I must have had some bad latency the last time I tried. I'm at 528 Skill Speed. I lost a bunch from switching to Hive Claws and Gordian Ring.

    I was meant to fit Steel Peak in there, totally forgot about it when I wrote that rotation when I was on my phone.

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    Ok went back and edited my previous post with correct numbers, as for some reason the buffs were being done additive and not multiplicative....told you 3am. Anyhow its 3am again but this time with beer! That being said, this puts the standard rotation ahead quite a bit, however as I mentioned, you didn't fit in steel peak, due to where it would fall in the rotation it probably would have to be right before DK, so only being slightly buff but still not surpassing the standard build(but shy off small points). If you rotate elixir with Forbidden, you'll gain a slight lead over the standard(like 5 potency over it....) so with that being said, I want to say that the standard should pull ahead in the long run. Id have to make a 2minute long rotation to know for sure.

  15. #15
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    Any idea what my dps should look like at i186 ravana's weap? Did a 3:40 min parse on a dummy and ended with 1260. I find it a bit low.

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    I'm getting roughly the same numbers. Not really sure how I would push it any higher tbh.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitoseijuro View Post
    I believe this is approximately the current standard without using Tornado Kick:
    Demo > B4B/PB > snap > IR > snap > steel > Twin > Howling > DK > Elixir > snap> Forbidden > ToD > boot > true > Demo(b4b wears) > DK > twin > Snap
    326 > 227 > 245 > 220 > 205 > 270 > 238 >388 > 317 > 564 > 385 >397 > 335 >568 >244> 228> 293 = 5450

    Edit: cleaned up the numbers
    Out of curiosity, where would you drop a potion in this opener?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detzu View Post
    Any idea what my dps should look like at i186 ravana's weap? Did a 3:40 min parse on a dummy and ended with 1260. I find it a bit low.
    That's about where you should be.

  19. #19

    Quote Originally Posted by Resin View Post
    Out of curiosity, where would you drop a potion in this opener?
    Demo (from Form Shift) > PB > Snap > BFB > Snap > IR > Twin > DK > STR Pot > Snap > TFC > Boot > Elixir > True > Howling > ToD > Steel > Demo > DK ... ... ...

    About the time I use TFC, both Battle Litany and MCH debuff are active.

  20. #20
    THE FAIRY CAT
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    I've been doing :

    Demolish(from form shift) [perfect balance] > snap [b4b] > snap [ir] > DK [str pot] > twin snakes [elixir field] > Snap [shoulder tackle] > ToD [howling fist] > boot shine [steel peak] > true strike [forbidden chakra] > demolish > DK > twin snakes > snap

    Twin doesn't drop from the first rotation to the second, and neither does DK. Should be able to apply both tod and the second demolish with all buffs and pots up.

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