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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by paciokino View Post
    Funny how cheating today is so normal that bans seems w/o reason.
    With botting becoming so commonplace, SE had no way to manually do bans on people on a case by case basis.

    Logic dictates that as botting became more commonplace, and 3rd party tools became more and more socially acceptable to use, the rates at which non cheaters got hit in the crossfire would increase.

    I don't know why SE cares about fish botters anymore though. Fishing isn't profitable. There's a reason I don't have or had had a reason to fish bot or cheat. The only good ways to make money nowadays are salvage/dynamis/skirmish.

  2. #42
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    Even if you were playing legit and I really don't care if you were or weren't, there is usually a reason people get banned, even if it's a false positive and you were incorrectly identified as using a third party program, it's still a reason. Frankly if you were fishing so much it made you look like you were using a fishbot then perhaps you needed to tone it down a bit, I know I get burned out from fishing after an hour, let alone a whole day session.

    You can complain to SE but I doubt it will do any good, even if they could undo the ban, everyone who does use bots is going to be claiming innocence just like you so SE won't pay it any attention.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tidis View Post
    Even if you were playing legit and I really don't care if you were or weren't, there is usually a reason people get banned, even if it's a false positive and you were incorrectly identified as using a third party program, it's still a reason. Frankly if you were fishing so much it made you look like you were using a fishbot then perhaps you needed to tone it down a bit, I know I get burned out from fishing after an hour, let alone a whole day session.

    You can complain to SE but I doubt it will do any good, even if they could undo the ban, everyone who does use bots is going to be claiming innocence just like you so SE won't pay it any attention.
    We're all pretty sure thats the reason. Couldnt get any help on the phone sadly

    Im not too miffed since it was just a 3 day temp. I just wanted to figure out what caused it, because if I do it again its a perma ban next Im 99% sure.

    I just have to make sure I don't binge again like that ever again I guess

    Its all just stupid though. I can totally get it when hakuryus were a thing, but nowadays you can't make money fishing outside of the whole ebisu pyramid scheme, which has pretty much died off now.

  4. #44

    Quote Originally Posted by Draylo View Post
    I find it hard to believe someone was fishing legit for 20 hours...
    lol pretty easy be high as high asnd be on your weekend ^^

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeecon88 View Post
    lol pretty easy be high as high asnd be on your weekend ^^
    Can I please be made a mod who's only power is to ban people with less than 20 posts. I promise to donate a bunch next time

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by geno3302 View Post
    Can I please be made a mod who's only power is to ban people with less than 20 posts. I promise to donate a bunch next time
    Yes! I make the cut!

  7. #47

    If you're being honest, they may have got you for Ashita. Not sure what tools they're using or if any of those plugins are detectable, or some idiot special task force guy saw you speaking about 3rd party tools and figured you were cheating. Proof they do ban for windower or whatever:

    http://oi60.tinypic.com/2du9uls.jpg

    That's a SGM who said he's been one since April 2006, so, whatever they're using, they can detect, just not sure WHAT is flagging, cause if that was the case, a LOT more people would be banned. Also it's anything you did in the last 6 weeks, according to the GM.

    They will never tell you what you were exactly banned for; just third party tools, don't waste your time asking. He explained if they told you, the developers would find work arounds and fixes so the bots couldn't be detected by their tools.

    This wasn't for my account by the way, was calling one for a friend cause support center said to have a friend (me) call a GM in game for him cause they couldn't help.

  8. #48
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    carelessness is what is flagging it.....

  9. #49
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    Wait... different accounts? What does Bubblex mean by that?

    edit: nvm didn't see the direction of that tell T.T

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by steellord View Post
    well you're a useless petty hater if ever i saw one

    especially since SE themselves have added tpparty, you can rot in hell
    I hope you get banned for talking about plugins and stuff on your LS or in say.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kainstryder View Post
    If you're being honest, they may have got you for Ashita. Not sure what tools they're using or if any of those plugins are detectable, or some idiot special task force guy saw you speaking about 3rd party tools and figured you were cheating. Proof they do ban for windower or whatever:

    http://oi60.tinypic.com/2du9uls.jpg

    That's a SGM who said he's been one since April 2006, so, whatever they're using, they can detect, just not sure WHAT is flagging, cause if that was the case, a LOT more people would be banned. Also it's anything you did in the last 6 weeks, according to the GM.

    They will never tell you what you were exactly banned for; just third party tools, don't waste your time asking. He explained if they told you, the developers would find work arounds and fixes so the bots couldn't be detected by their tools.

    This wasn't for my account by the way, was calling one for a friend cause support center said to have a friend (me) call a GM in game for him cause they couldn't help.
    That makes sense, I can see why they'd be tight lipped. If they explained what tripped the bot detection system, bots would be designed to take steps to avoid detection.

    Fair enough I suppose.

  12. #52
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    Eh, not really "fair enough."

    The fact of the matter is that many PC users will be using Windower or Ashita until they're banned. If SE started an honest dialogue about what kind of 3P enhancements were acceptable, we could adjust the offerings to meet their demands. If they ban for unknown reasons, they're just creating disgruntled, non-paying customers. If they're genuinely interested in banning for Windower and Ashita usage (rather than any specific feature they offer), they should come out and say it so people can quit on their own terms instead of ending their decade+ run on a sour note by being banned.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Eh, not really "fair enough."

    The fact of the matter is that many PC users will be using Windower or Ashita until they're banned. If SE started an honest dialogue about what kind of 3P enhancements were acceptable, we could adjust the offerings to meet their demands. If they ban for unknown reasons, they're just creating disgruntled, non-paying customers. If they're genuinely interested in banning for Windower and Ashita usage (rather than any specific feature they offer), they should come out and say it so people can quit on their own terms instead of ending their decade+ run on a sour note by being banned.
    This is where we get into the whole "shunting us off to ff14" conspiracy theorists. I have no comment on that though.

    I think its more likely a system of ffxi's teams being compartmentalized and seperated. According to the GM I spoke to, the majority of the STF is in japan. There's probably little to no localization for the couple people they have running that set up.

    I wouldn't be surprised if its just one or two guys that just operate a monitoring software that monitors player interactions to develop a RMT network and bans the leaves of said tree.

    So chances are the algorithm for determining cheater vs not cheater is under wraps and only understood by the couple japanese guys who handle that program, and they don't tell others how it works otherwise they might blab it out and make their job even harder.

    They could tell us what is/isn't okay, but because SE is all divided up all over the world for this game, it's hard to have the STF build a program that does on thing and then try and draw a line as to where players get banned or not.

    Especially if the monitoring software bans over types of actions (doing things faster than humanly possible, repeating the same thing over and over, speed hacking, etc) and not what tool was used to do that action.

    This is a double edged sword. On one hand, players like me get hit in the crossfire. But on the other hand, you can't obfuscate nearly as easily if you don't know what you have to obfuscate. Does it monitor positions? Keypresses? Does it watch and see when players use killfish cheating? Maybe it just logs your unafk time vs afk time, and if you have an unnaturally high unafk time you get flagged.

    Because of that, making an undetectable bot is impossible, so you either have to play legit or swallow the pill and hope your cheat your using flies under the radar.

    It has its pros and cons, and I don't doubt the guys in charge of this probably do know what they are doing, and maybe a couple guys like me get hit but I bet the accuracy of the program is high enough to warrant it. SE isn't stupid, and they know how to make money. You don't make money haphazardly banning non cheaters.

    But thats just me hoping SE knows wtf its doing... >_>;

  14. #54

    Also, the whole 2 boxing/farming exp/CP for hours, I asked the same GM about that and is it ok to mass kill. He flat said it's more than ok to do and the only time it would be an issue is if you intentionally grief someone, but if you're both competing, that's fair game, yellow=fair, only entitled to red/claimed. He did say 9 hours straight or something is a bit suspicious but he never said "do not do this for x period", but did say there were automated programs that did it for you and THAT is also a problem, so don't do it. Otherwise, all intended and have fun.

    So whoever is being banned for exp/CP isn't exactly telling the full truth or 2+ boxing something.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Eh, not really "fair enough."

    The fact of the matter is that many PC users will be using Windower or Ashita until they're banned. If SE started an honest dialogue about what kind of 3P enhancements were acceptable, we could adjust the offerings to meet their demands. If they ban for unknown reasons, they're just creating disgruntled, non-paying customers. If they're genuinely interested in banning for Windower and Ashita usage (rather than any specific feature they offer), they should come out and say it so people can quit on their own terms instead of ending their decade+ run on a sour note by being banned.
    You're really the last person to dictate what SE should or should not ban for considering you deserve to be banned 100 times over for all the mass exploitation and cheating you've done in the game. No third party tools means no third party tools, it's pretty clear-cut, they shouldn't have to give you permission to cheat a little with Windower or Ashita or whatever. They specifically forbid it for a reason. Just because they can't detect certain things Windower or Ashita does doesn't mean they're not entitled and completely justified to banhammer you for it if they do find out you're using it.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivbiibasjiu View Post
    Hi, my name is vivi and I'm from 2005 Alla. 3P must die.
    k

  17. #57
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    Byrth did at no point in their post dictate what should or should not bannable.

    All byrth said was "I think SE should be transparent with what they ban and what they don't ban, so players aren't constantly questioning whether they're going to get banned or not, and end up eventually being banned and they really don't know what *exactly* it was they got banned for, so they end up bitter and leave the game with resentment"

    In other words, SE should be less vague about the situation with windower/ashita etc.

    They never will of course, thats a can of worms I don't think they care to open.

    Honestly speaking, all SE needs to do is make it so we can save macro palettes and macro gear palettes to some kind of xml file or text file and be able to trade that with players.

    "Oh hey here's my bst macro palette, try it out"

    The only reasons nowadays that programs like ashitacast are popular are for two things:

    #1: You can't fucking share your vanilla macros and set up with other players for them to copy and use, you CAN do this with ashitacast/gearswap/etc

    #2: Gearswap/ashitacast let you actually cheat a bit and cancel effects, swap spells, and change spells based on variables. Thats... actually a *little* bit on the chesty side. I don't do this, its kind of a grey area to be honest.

    Watching JP players on their youtube channels solo shit without any 3rd party bullshit really made me take a step back and go "well maybe the game might be more fun if I challenged myself a bit"

    Turns out most jobs don't really need ashitacast/gearswap.

    The real key lies in the /macro set # and /macro book # commands.

    These two commands are EPIC, and with those two commands and 15 minutes spent on gear macro books, and I actually set myself up a pretty half decent macro palette for my dancer.

    I'm happy to say my dancer is now actually 100% ashitacast free. No need for it there. The ONLY thing I lost is ashita autocancelled my shadows when I cast utsu:ichi.

    I'm very sad SE never finished the whole UI update, I was so excited for that.

    Edit: Also, most players have no clue how stuff like <bt> <st> <stal> and even <scan> work.

    My favorite ffxi hack no one fuckings knows is <r> (the last player to tell you) which is so sick for doing multiboxing without any 3rd party stuff.

  18. #58
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    <r> is awesome for that. especially in the early days when you couldnt send a st target thru to a dualed character.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kainstryder View Post
    Also, the whole 2 boxing/farming exp/CP for hours, I asked the same GM about that and is it ok to mass kill. He flat said it's more than ok to do and the only time it would be an issue is if you intentionally grief someone, but if you're both competing, that's fair game, yellow=fair, only entitled to red/claimed. He did say 9 hours straight or something is a bit suspicious but he never said "do not do this for x period", but did say there were automated programs that did it for you and THAT is also a problem, so don't do it. Otherwise, all intended and have fun.

    So whoever is being banned for exp/CP isn't exactly telling the full truth or 2+ boxing something.
    I've had a GM say the opposite. Farming a place for hours could and has been considered interfering with others game experience. In fact someone reported that very thing in the salvage ban thread a couple weeks ago. Also had a GM tell me selling drops for gil was against the rules because it's impossible to do while another one laughed at that. point is policies change/GMs don't always know what they are talking about.

  20. #60
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    I'm gonna go with its a policy of "if another player complains about it to the GM, then its interfering with other players. If no one says anything, GMs don't give a fuck"

    IE farming a whole zone while theres 2-3 other parties in there, and doing it for hours on end? Prolly gonna get in trouble.

    Farming an entire zone when your the only person there? Prolly won't get in terrible trouble.

    However I'm 99% sure I saw a chatlog screenshot of that very convo where a player was mass AoE farming and GM contacted them, etc, player said "No one else is even in the zone right now" and the gm basically replied "doesnt matter still bad no u"

    But that was an old ass screenshot.

    Gms are individual people and I expect will handle situations differently.

    All of my interactions with GMs have always been "I'm sorry to hear that. Figure it out for yourself, bai"

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