Treasure Hunter and its application on targets rule

[Sechs]

I apologize for making a new thread, trying to get more visibility for this question that's been fueling an animated discussion among friends lately.

Does TH need a direct action on the target to be applied? Or is being in the target's enmity list enough to apply TH on it?
Doing an action (Collaborator/Accomplice etc) on a player who performed a direct action on the target counts as direct action or not?

[Tidis]

For the record I believe you just have to be on the hate list and it will have whatever TH level you had equipped when you were put on the hate list, I have no idea if it's true though, I have always just heard this is how it is.

The best way to test this I would think, would be to get 2 THFs, 1 wearing TH3, the other in TH8.

1) TH7 THF engages a mob with lvl 1 weapons and in base TH3 state.
2) TH8 THF wearing TH8 gear uses collaborator/accomplice on the TH3 THF.
3) TH3 THF swaps to TH7 gear
(The reason for this being, higher TH increases chance of increasing TH, if mob is still at TH3 this won't be too bad, if it's at the other THF's TH8 and you're hitting it with TH3, you'll be there a while)
4) Eventually you'll get a TH proc, it will either be TH4 or TH9.

[Sechs]

For the record I believe you just have to be on the hate list and it will have whatever TH level you had equipped when you were put on the hate list, I have no idea if it's true though, I have always just heard this is how it is.

That's how I thought it worked as well. Which would mean that performing a non direct action (curing someone, accomplice etc) would be enough to apply TH on the relevant targets.
Likewise in zones where everyone gets put at 1 in the enmity list of all pulled targets (Incursion, Vagary etc).

That seems a bit too good to be true though, and someone else is saying to me that you need to perform a DIRECT action on a target to apply TH.
AoE spells should work I think, because I'm noticing a big increase when one of our BLMs goes /THF in Vagary, which shouldn't otherwise be that big if it only applied to the main target of the AoE spell.

Wasn't some test performed about this some time ago? Here on BG or maybe by SE themselves? I can't remember...

[Fwahm]

For the record I believe you just have to be on the hate list and it will have whatever TH level you had equipped when you were put on the hate list, I have no idea if it's true though, I have always just heard this is how it is.

The best way to test this I would think, would be to get 2 THFs, 1 wearing TH3, the other in TH8.

1) TH7 THF engages a mob with lvl 1 weapons and in base TH3 state.
2) TH8 THF wearing TH8 gear uses collaborator/accomplice on the TH3 THF.
3) TH3 THF swaps to TH7 gear
(The reason for this being, higher TH increases chance of increasing TH, if mob is still at TH3 this won't be too bad, if it's at the other THF's TH8 and you're hitting it with TH3, you'll be there a while)
4) Eventually you'll get a TH proc, it will either be TH4 or TH9.

Doesn't applying TH with TH X on automatically bring the TH to X?

[Sechs]

Afaik yes, but X can't be higher than 8 and only works on THF main. It's 4 if you're /THF.
After TH8 is applied from there on you can only upgrade it through the THF main upgrade mechanics.
The higher the level, the lower the chances of an upgrade.

There are those who claim that equipping more than TH8 (above the cap) increases the chance of the upgrade to happen, but it's mostly a placebo. Might be true but no conclusive tests have ever been performed regarding it.

[Hoshiku]

Might be easier to test it with a ranger? If the TH8 thf was on the hate list and that applied TH8 to the mob then bounty shot should have no effect for its first hit.

[dasva]

I could swear SE said you had to take an action on the mob as it is basically a debuff on the mob

[BerenTebogo]

I could swear SE said you had to take an action on the mob as it is basically a debuff on the mob

I thought this as well. Which is why you just swing once then go sit in a corner. Or THF/WHM, cast dia, go sit in a corner.

[Sechs]

I could swear SE said you had to take an action on the mob as it is basically a debuff on the mob

Yeah I'm afraid this is the case. I think aoe offensive spells do work though, for every target hit.

[Byrthnoth]

IIRC people tried to test this in the past using a level 90 THF/WHM, a level 45+ THF, and a third job without TH.

* Third job pulls
* THF/WHM cures them
* Level 45 THF melees the monster
* First upgrade is either to TH3 or TH4.

Perhaps check the mathy parts.

[Trumpy]

I am pretty sure in the past I have engaged a mob without my TH gear and got a proc that said TH4 then i was like oh shit and put on TH gear and the next proc was TH5 and not the TH8 or whatever I was expecting. I think the first TH applied seems to stick. However having the highest TH on will increase odds of more procs at least up to your highest TH level.

[Damane]

I am pretty sure in the past I have engaged a mob without my TH gear and got a proc that said TH4 then i was like oh shit and put on TH gear and the next proc was TH5 and not the TH8 or whatever I was expecting. I think the first TH applied seems to stick. However having the highest TH on will increase odds of more procs at least up to your highest TH level.

i think you missed the point here. its not about TH procs to get higher TH its about if the mob has TH on it without takeing any action against it but just being on its hate list.

[Aragon of Odin]

Why does my mule sometimes get a first proc TH10 applied, and sometimes it's only a 9? He doesn't have gear swaps when I have him on THF, so is their a TH campaign or some shit going on sometimes that I'm just not aware of?

I thought 8 was the highest base you could apply and have to move up 1 at a time from there, this sometimes first proc 10 is throwing me off.

[Sechs]

Why does my mule sometimes get a first proc TH10 applied, and sometimes it's only a 9? He doesn't have gear swaps when I have him on THF, so is their a TH campaign or some shit going on sometimes that I'm just not aware of?

I thought 8 was the highest base you could apply and have to move up 1 at a time from there, this sometimes first proc 10 is throwing me off.

TH levelup are "hidden" in the chatlog if they proc during WSs.
So if 10 is the first you see, probably it's because you got 9 during a WS and hence was "hidden".

[Snprphnx]

Might be easier to test it with a ranger? If the TH8 thf was on the hate list and that applied TH8 to the mob then bounty shot should have no effect for its first hit.

Not true. Bounty Shot not only applies Treasure Hunter at a base level of TH2, but then TH3 with Sylvan Glovettes +1/+2 and Amini Glovettes, and TH4 with Amini Glovettes +1. But it also has a chance to continue to increase any TH applied from any source or job, though the odds become increasingly rare. The highest test, just using Bounty Shot, was TH12, I believe, but that was only obtained after using Bounty Shot hundreds of times just for the TH10 > TH11 upgrade

[Snprphnx]

But, to the OPs question, he is wondering if Treasure Hunter is applied through INDIRECT action, by means of Accomplice or Collaborator.

As in:

Player 1 is a THF who has take no direct action towards the mob.
Player 2 is a BLM who has been nuking the mob.
Player 1 uses Accomplice on Player 2, taking his enmity.
Does this apply Treasure Hunter?

I would say no. I believe SE had said TH was applied through any DIRECT action to the mob.

[Snprphnx]

Edit :: removed for iPhone double post.

[Hoshiku]

Yes but the first shot of bounty shot always lands if the mob has no TH on it whereas if it has TH4+ you would be more likely to see the no effect message on the first hit since TH3 can't be applied.

[Falkirk]

I apologize for making a new thread, trying to get more visibility for this question that's been fueling an animated discussion among friends lately.

Does TH need a direct action on the target to be applied? Or is being in the target's enmity list enough to apply TH on it?
Doing an action (Collaborator/Accomplice etc) on a player who performed a direct action on the target counts as direct action or not?

[Sechs]

Yeah I guess that demonstrates it, direct action is needed.
Be it autoattack, a JA, an AoE spell/debuff (where any target it should receive TH) or whatever else fitting the model.