Game Watch Translation - Interview with Yoshida at Gamescom 2015

[Niiro]

no, because Shiva also dropped weapons that people wanted.

Not really, Shiva came out at the same time coil 2 unlocked, people wanted HA weapons (115), not Shiva weapons (110, same as soldiery weapons which people already had access to and were now unlocked).

They didn't add the diamond dust upgrades until quite a while after.

[layoneil]

Not really, Shiva came out at the same time coil 2 unlocked, people wanted HA weapons (115), not Shiva weapons (110, same as soldiery weapons which people already had access to and were now unlocked).

They didn't add the diamond dust upgrades until quite a while after.

you live in a world where everyone farmed HA weapons, which is not the actual world that exists. some Shiva weapons were better than the soldiery equivalent.

[Stef]

everything hinges on the Airship content not being crap.

the rest of the list is more of the same even if they do each part of it slightly better.

I suppose it depends on whether or not you enjoy the game in its current state, which I do. I know that not everyone does though, so I'm hoping the airship stuff is as good as it sounds!

[Niiro]

you live in a world where everyone farmed HA weapons, which is not the actual world that exists. some Shiva weapons were better than the soldiery equivalent.

If you couldn't farm HA weapons, you weren't doing final coil, in which case whether an item is useful or not makes no difference.

[TheDirtyHobo]

If you couldn't farm HA weapons, you weren't doing final coil, in which case whether an item is useful or not makes no difference.

Or you just chose not to farm HA weapons for jobs that weren't your main for the marginally worse but significantly easier to obtain Shiva weapons.

[Spider-Dan]

Not really, Shiva came out at the same time coil 2 unlocked, people wanted HA weapons (115), not Shiva weapons (110, same as soldiery weapons which people already had access to and were now unlocked).

1) there were people who could not yet clear T9 but could clear Shiva EX
2) itemization exists; some Shiva weapons had better secondaries than the soldiery weapons (e.g. SCH)

[Niiro]

1) there were people who could not yet clear T9 but could clear Shiva EX
2) itemization exists; some Shiva weapons had better secondaries than the soldiery weapons (e.g. SCH)

If you weren't doing final coil, you didn't need any of this.

An item is useful and relevant if it has a place in the hardest content, that's what's being discussed here.

Shiva weapons did not (the bracelets, however, did).

[Dotsudoku]

Too lazy to read backwards, but didn't this particular part of the discussion go in the direction of what people were doing rather than what people should have been doing?

Need goes out the window if that's the case. Goal-oriented casuals exist(I'm one of them), so farming Shiva instead of second coil was definitely a thing.

[Niiro]

The conversation originated with gear that was relevant and useful for raid content.

[Lucavi]

If you weren't doing final coil, you didn't need any of this.

People do content simply because they need the drops? I figured they did it because they wanted to, you know, do the fights?

Yeah yeah relevant for raid content, but that's a tiny window to air-pack everything concerning primal itemization into.

Shiva shit looked cool. It was all frosted and cold.

[solracht]

I wouldn't say the Shiva weapons were universally useless/irrelevant. They had a very obvious target audience (those who couldn't farm Darnus) and the trial was correctly tuned for them (it was a very simple fight with very low DPS/healing checks). This is a lot more than can be said of Bismarck/Ramuh since farming these fights was harder than simply taking other available options for your weapons.

Had Shiva not dropped i120 bracelets it would've still had a much longer shelf life than Bismarck/Ramuh. It really baffles me, who exactly were these two fights meant for?

[layoneil]

The conversation originated with gear that was relevant and useful for raid content.

no, it originated with me saying Bismarck EX and Ramuh EX were both released in a state where people did it once and quit it and you using everything else to try and debunk that assertion.

[layoneil]

I suppose it depends on whether or not you enjoy the game in its current state, which I do. I know that not everyone does though, so I'm hoping the airship stuff is as good as it sounds!

i do but the game definitely has peaks and valleys. for lots of people the valleys dip pretty low around the 5-6 month mark when we're only doing things for our 4th+ jobs.

you can't keep doing that to people over and over and expect all of them to come back from it every time. good new content should take away from that.

[Niiro]

no, it originated with me saying Bismarck EX and Ramuh EX were both released in a state where people did it once and quit it and you using everything else to try and debunk that assertion.

........what?

I said Ramuh rings were useful.

Rocl reminded me that the rings were i100 at first, then someone else pointed out that Ramuh was released in a non-coil patch which meant we had access to i110 rings from hunts at that point.

I agreed, and said Shiva bracelets were a better example of relevant primal drops because they came out in the same patch as final coil and were equal to un-upgraded tome gear.

We were clearly discussing gear that was relevant at the time it was released, your comment about Ramuh may have triggered the conversation but it wasn't what it was about.

[layoneil]

then someone else pointed out that Ramuh was released in a non-coil patch which meant we had access to i110 rings from hunts at that point.

except that someone else was still me.

[Niiro]

Ok........so you were also along with the conversation when it was focusing on relevant gear, so what's all this nonsense about "not everyone does coil blah blah casuals".

[layoneil]

Ok........so you were also along with the conversation when it was focusing on relevant gear, so what's all this nonsense about "not everyone does coil blah blah casuals".

i was never along for that part, apparently at some point you just started talking to yourself.

the only thing of interest to me is this:

It really baffles me, who exactly were these two fights meant for?

[Seravi Edalborez]

People do content simply because they need the drops? I figured they did it because they wanted to, you know, do the fights?

The way some people play, you'd think they don't actually want to do the fights.

Or they only want to "do" them, not clear them.

[Damane]

Yah, if the screw the FC content up, it could be very bad. Something, anything, that doesn't require the same group of 7 people is absolutely needed.

Flexibility in party setups isnt FFXIV strong point sadly... (or Flexibility in general)

[Shenrien]

You're always going to need a healer if the content its too hard that it can't be killed comfortably by ~2-8+ individuals. You're always going to need a tank if the content hits too hard that it's not realistically possible for a DPS to handle themselves for the duration of whatever the encounter is. What you choose to use for DPS if it's casual enough.. doesn't matter what so ever, there may be lacking class synergy but you could still do whatever it is you're attempting to accomplish with 4 of the same dps is you really care to do that.

You can be as flexible as you want with whatever content you want to do, but if you handle everything of the mind set that you need x-amount of healers or you need x-amount of tanks or you need x-class for y-class and z-class to function to their best then yeah you're going to encounter that no-flexibility. Choosing to follow the heard of rather break out and try something different just to go against the norm is your choice and one you make and accept on your own.