The Religion Thread (I hate you guys)

[Churchill]

And these are the things people won't realize about Islam until it's too late.

I could say how much of an expert I am on Islam and its people/culture but no one really cares. The world faces a lot of problems, Climate Change, poverty/wealth distribution, globalization. Climate Change is probably our biggest hurdle as failing that challenge means world ending consequences, but for my money Islam is a threat that falls in right behind it.

Islam IS the problem. There is no moderate Islam. There is moderate Islam to ISIS, but that is not moderate Islam. The Qu'ran can say whatever it wants, peace, love, whatever, it doesn't matter because the culture is so far back in Western Civilizations history that most people can't even look at it through the proper lens. The moderate Islamic majority does nothing because they do agree with the Caliphate, perhaps not the methods, but as long as Sunni's aren't dying then it's all good. They are also not forgetful of what the West did to Palestine in kicking the natives out of their homes and empowering a terrorist nation to take over. People asked in the other thread, and they asked me in person as well (following the attacks in Paris) like, "Why kill those people, wouldn't it make more sense to go after leadership, whatever, etc" and I'm like no...it makes way more sense to kill as many infidels as possible because you deserve to die if you aren't muslim. You aren't even human, you are a walking insult to Allah and there is no justice for Allah until you and your kids are fucking dead.

Muslims from actual muj countries also don't look at death the way I do, for example. I don't want to die, while I never prayed in a foxhole because that would be dumb, I definitely sat in bed after a raid and said damn i almost fucking died that would suck. It's not like that for muj country muslims. Death is the goal, death brings you to Allah. They didn't even blink an eye or ask for anything in the early years of killing muj, later on they learned we'd pay them because of white guilt and try to scam multiple units for money.

I don't know a lot about Jordan/UAE because they've been in the GWOT for awhile so we don't really target there, but the other countries we 'work' with I never trusted for a fucking second. We'd go to border meetings in Shkin and have ISID dudes all over taking our pictures to get passed over to TB/PK-TB. The world has seen the strength, backbone, and resolve of Iraqi military/police in dealing with ISIS. Before we learned our lessons in the early years, the guys we took (had to take, because muh nationbuilding) from the locals would often be severely unreliable in showing up to the flightline, disappearing, even tipping off dudes that we were doing a mission. We'd be going after guys who do suicide attacks against muslims and these niggas would tell them we were coming because ALLAH. We basically took their cellphones and locked them in their tents like children because fuck it if our guys were gonna die because we had to take those shitbags.

Posted it in the other thread, but the real answer is we need to stop giving them an out. They need to bleed and die for whatever nation they want to be built, and if that ends up being a Caliphate then bombs away.

[thetruepandagod]

They need to bleed and die for whatever nation they want to be built, and if that ends up being a Caliphate then bombs away.

This is the truest thing I have seen in a while. Let them build it, and if it is yet another nightmarish shit country just bomb them until they build something capable of functioning with the rest of the world. The solutions really aren't that difficult but we make it harder if not impossible by having a lot of politically vested interests in these regions and we refuse to leave them alone. As an aside bless the kurds.

[mallister]

life for the regular person in the ME is a level of degradation, poverty, and willful ignorance that has to be experienced to be understood.

[Xantavia]

What do you think would happen if a large group of moderate Muslims decided to gather anywhere in the US to discuss if there was anything they could do? I myself think a group of good ol' boys would decide they were a bunch of terrorists anyway, leading to several fatalities in the process.

[Marootsoobutsu]

What do you think would happen if a large group of moderate Muslims decided to gather anywhere in the US to discuss if there was anything they could do? I myself think a group of good ol' boys would decide they were a bunch of terrorists anyway, leading to several fatalities in the process.

I don't think anything would happen. Muslims in the US are essentially powerless to affect change in the Middle East, or are at least are no more able to do so than you or I are. Unless they started to change the dialogue in the US from "Tolerate, Islam is a religion of peace," to acknowledging, "Islam is a religion of violence. We want it to BECOME a religion of peace"... then we might get somewhere. Islam needs a reformation, but that can't happen if those who would implement it deny the need, or deny the reality of what it is. I'm not sure that Islam is really /capable/ of that, though. Not that Muslims are individually incapable of it, but the religion as a whole.

[Waraji]

Why should I care about change in the Middle East at this point? It won't matter today or tomorrow if a radical group bases itself off a Middle East country, they can get at anybody anywhere in the world through radicalization. The same fucking assholes who played out these attacks in Paris, how many of those do you think were genuine out of towners?

You think by trying to change the Middle East you're going to change the hearts and minds of these people? Personally, I think we stirred the pot one too many times for this to happen in our lifetime.

[Ksandra]

Why should I care about change in the Middle East at this point?

This is a weird question. If there were change in the middle east it would help prevent further attacks on our allies (Paris) and even ourselves (9/11).

[Thunder]

I don't think anything would happen. Muslims in the US are essentially powerless to affect change in the Middle East, or are at least are no more able to do so than you or I are. Unless they started to change the dialogue in the US from "Tolerate, Islam is a religion of peace," to acknowledging, "Islam is a religion of violence. We want it to BECOME a religion of peace"... then we might get somewhere. Islam needs a reformation, but that can't happen if those who would implement it deny the need, or deny the reality of what it is. I'm not sure that Islam is really /capable/ of that, though. Not that Muslims are individually incapable of it, but the religion as a whole.

Pretty spot on. The scary bit of it all is that even if reformation were happening and they actually did acknowledge what you say the popular opinion would be that islam is bad... and that'd be the green light to just fuck them all, militarily. And that green light would come faster than the reforming of a religion ever could.

Of all the military guys I know and have listened to podcasts/interviews to, they're all on the same wavelength when it comes to islamists. Fuck em. I'm pretty convinced the only reason there isn't an outright genocide (we've already heard/seen the headlines of people saying isreal is basically committing genocide already) is because a majority of US&EU people are riding the, "it isn't the religion's fault" train

Once that goes away (and it would if it was understood that it's the religion's fault), I'm pretty sure all or at least most of isreal officials/military/etc will just go full on fuck you people mode. Followed by the entire modern world (us, uk, ru, fr, etc) laying into the middle east.

Even best case scenario I think is leading to a war because neither "side" is handling things well

[AlastorTGN]

In work today I'm told that ISIS are basically cherrypicking verses to justify their bullshit, but I haven't read the Quran so I can't really argue against it.

[Thunder]

In work today I'm told that ISIS are basically cherrypicking verses to justify their bullshit, but I haven't read the Quran so I can't really argue against it.

Anyone who has read it would have a tough time finding anti-justifications for what isis is doing, wants done, has done, says will do, blah blah blah

No bullshit, isis is exactly what you'd expect from a literal interpretation of the qur'an


Sure, there are a couple places where it seems like it's likely misused. example I just pulled from random googling, "“Therefore, when you meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks.” But the very next line, contained in Chapter 47, Verse 4: “At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind the captives firmly. Therefore is the time for either generosity or ransom.” So it doesn't say to cut off the heads of nonbelievers in that one line? Idk, you be the judge.

There's also the couple verses (109 versus actually) where it says to kill unbelievers en mass but some of them are followed up with something along the lines of, "until they accept islam, humiliation, or death" or "captivate and beseige them, if they repent and keep up with prayer and pay the poor rate leave their way free to them" or " If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya (tax)".

So not all infidels need to die and it seems like isis is ignoring the couple verses that give them the option to let their enemies convert to islam before killing them.

But hey,
"Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" - Muhammad


Actually, that website I linked is pretty good (albeit obviously has an agenda). Just do ctrl+f hot topics. I did pay, tax, spiritual struggle (never is it mentioned in actual lines despite people saying jihad = a spiritual struggle)

[AlastorTGN]

I'm pretty sure they've made some convert and THEN killed them, which imo shows that they love the feeling of power. Also, when you put it like that, it almost sounds as if ISIS are not the ones misinterpreting the texts. :/

[NynJa]

Pretty spot on. The scary bit of it all is that even if reformation were happening and they actually did acknowledge what you say the popular opinion would be that islam is bad... and that'd be the green light to just fuck them all, militarily. And that green light would come faster than the reforming of a religion ever could.

Of all the military guys I know and have listened to podcasts/interviews to, they're all on the same wavelength when it comes to islamists. Fuck em. I'm pretty convinced the only reason there isn't an outright genocide (we've already heard/seen the headlines of people saying isreal is basically committing genocide already) is because a majority of US&EU people are riding the, "it isn't the religion's fault" train

Once that goes away (and it would if it was understood that it's the religion's fault), I'm pretty sure all or at least most of isreal officials/military/etc will just go full on fuck you people mode. Followed by the entire modern world (us, uk, ru, fr, etc) laying into the middle east.

Even best case scenario I think is leading to a war because neither "side" is handling things well

The last thing religious people want to do is blame religion. If they blame one religion, then they open the door to their own religion being attacked.

[BerenTebogo]

The last thing religious people want to do is blame religion. If they blame one religion, then they open the door to their own religion being attacked.

I've seen Christians having no problem blaming the entire religion of Islam for these attacks. Most of them can hurl shit at other religions while maintaining their own ivory tower standard. Cognitive dissonance is a thing.

[Aksannyi]

That gif in your sig is A+

[Prim]

Probably could have posted these videos in half a dozen threads here, but this seemed most appropriate. Law professor from University of California gives a series of lectures on separation of church/state and religious freedom issues. Don't let the Baptist talk at the beginning turn you off; the series is sponsored by a Baptist organization, but the lectures are pretty non-partisan.

[wipers]

Anyone who has read it would have a tough time finding anti-justifications for what isis is doing, wants done, has done, says will do, blah blah blah

No bullshit, isis is exactly what you'd expect from a literal interpretation of the qur'an


Sure, there are a couple places where it seems like it's likely misused. example I just pulled from random googling, "“Therefore, when you meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks.” But the very next line, contained in Chapter 47, Verse 4: “At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind the captives firmly. Therefore is the time for either generosity or ransom.” So it doesn't say to cut off the heads of nonbelievers in that one line? Idk, you be the judge.

There's also the couple verses (109 versus actually) where it says to kill unbelievers en mass but some of them are followed up with something along the lines of, "until they accept islam, humiliation, or death" or "captivate and beseige them, if they repent and keep up with prayer and pay the poor rate leave their way free to them" or " If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya (tax)".

So not all infidels need to die and it seems like isis is ignoring the couple verses that give them the option to let their enemies convert to islam before killing them.

But hey,
"Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" - Muhammad


Actually, that website I linked is pretty good (albeit obviously has an agenda). Just do ctrl+f hot topics. I did pay, tax, spiritual struggle (never is it mentioned in actual lines despite people saying jihad = a spiritual struggle)

From the link posted this was the most useful info I got: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/qu...3-violence.htm (at the bottom of page)

" There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran literally... and too many others who couldn't care less about the violence done in the name of Islam."

This right here is the problem too many people don't care so it will continue.

[archibaldcrane]

" There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran literally... and too many others who couldn't care less about the violence done in the name of Islam."

This right here is the problem too many people don't care so it will continue.

[thetruepandagod]

I bet she'd text back if he was daesh.

[wipers]

All you have to do is convert to Islam it could be worst...like listening to the new Adele album.

[Andalusian girls]

how dare you