Nikki Seven / LBR vs Reddit

[FHT]

But he make valid points, I once red a criticism in the FFXIVreddit and the amount of fire it got, just for saying that XIV should take a little bit of XI was incredible. Reddit people are clearly unable to read even the most gentle criticism, as soon as someone has a different opinion they'll all gather to polute the person post and do everything they can to make the person feel like an idiot.

@ KMFDM,

The way you speak might not be seen appropriate, however I feel like you've hit a lot of good points. I'd like to thank you very much for the morning laugh and the facts you've given, it felt like I was having my breakfast on a silver platter.

[Twilight Sky]

Well the game isn't gonna go in the right direction if Yoshida listens to them and OF people.

Sorry people. Game is fucked forever.

[RobertKordas]

@KMFDM preach, brother, preach. I was the guy that wrote the initial email to LBR mentioning the Yosheeple army on that subreddit. You cannot post anything critical of the game or you are toxic. You cannot post anything about the shit the skill level of a lot of payers because you are an elitist. Support parsers? Get downvoted to shit with "look at what parsers did to WoW" posts. You mean, contributed to the game being extremely successful and having good, well balanced raids? Because raiding is literally the only thing good about that game. People don't want to see facts supporting the fact that they are not good. But hey, "the servers are down for maintenance, so I drew my Y'shtola themed catgirl white mage with my girlfriend's potato looking lala toon. Isn't it the cutest? Never mind the fact that there is a FFXIVart subreddit. I'll just post this here so the up votes flow." Things like this are why I don't tell my RL friends I play this game. They assume I'm a casual weeaboo with a catgirl fetish.

[Fondue]

Things like this are why I don't tell my RL friends I play this game. They assume I'm a casual weeaboo with a catgirl fetish.

right on point lol

[FHT]

Well the game isn't gonna go in the right direction if Yoshida listens to them and OF people.

Sorry people. Game is fucked forever.

Yep, lets ask for more emotes and shits (/nosebleed anyone?) in the cash shop, more poke/Digiminions to play Poke/Digimon, more glamour because outside of that crafting is useless, and more vertical progression because versatility, choices, and gearing options are sins apparently. Oh and yes, lets not forget that we're all retarded so its better not adding any kind of merit system or ability bonus learned with gears to give said gears any meaning.

Feel free to correct me or add on what I missed.

[Eanae]

A place where the lowest common denominator is tolerated and even celebrated isn't really a new phenomenon. After all, the Alla forums existed in XI's heyday. You can "not stand for it" all you want, in the end places like that are still going to be there, and anyone who challenges the idiocy status quo or makes the LCD feel uncomfortable in their own unintelligence will be forcibly ousted. So it has always been, and so shall it continue to be.

The game environment in XIV itself is the cause of the descent into dumbassery the community has seen. The game purposefully does not challenge the players, assumedly for fear of losing subs if content is "too hard" or "too confusing". In my opinion, this is all on the choices the devs have made - the community may look a lot different if the game itself demanded more from its population. You can't blame a nearly purely casual game for attracting a nearly purely casual playerbase.

It is and it isn't a problem stemming from the state of the game. It is in the sense that not even BG has been immune from the casual wrath bringing the game down. Read the Alexander thread. It's a sad, sad state. Not even the self proclaimed "hardcore" author has killed A3S according to his Twitter. Some definition of hardcore there.

It isn't in the sense that no default game subreddit will ever pander to the hardcore because that's not the population that makes up Reddit. Reddit has a mix of all classes of casual and hardcore but it will always be dominantly casual. That's something we accepted as mods a long time ago. There's no sense in trying to fight the user base on that. Is there a problem with people down voting hardcore opinions? Sure but there's literally nothing new the mods can do about that. It's a flaw in the way Reddit works.

Will we ever ban art or pictures? We've talked about it but all eventually agreed it'd be dumb to. There's literally nothing to talk about right now. The game is in a huge lull. The occurrence of screenshots and art naturally goes down on its own when there's actually things to talk about.

Will we ever allow people to call each other hambeasts? Fuck no and the guy is an idiot for thinking we would. He was more than welcome to post his letter without trying to offend as many people as possible. But instead he chose to be edgy. Fuck off with that.

[Olo401]

Why? To address it of course. Your own community has overwhelmingly supported the sentiment you conveniently cherry picked out. I don't know why this discussion is being addressed here. It seems a bit out of place. I will say one thing though. Look forward to a part 2. if memory serves internet doesn't take kindly to censorship, Mrs. Streisand could learn you a thing or two about that.

And "failed" podcast? You can math, right? Just wondering.

LBR didn't ask me to write that, it was organic. It's sentiment echoed in my post history that I've been saying forever, and I stand by every single word I've penned. Personal bias blinds you to the point, and I get it, that's human nature. Perhaps maybe improvement might come from it. Other avenues have proven to be unfruitful. I make no apologies for the language used in that or the reply I made there after receiving my insta-ban. I could never apologize for honesty. My personal integrity is incompatible with such a notion.

One thing history has proven time and time again, in the formation of the United States of America, during the racial tension of the civil rights movement, upon countless artists, dissenters, social commentators, and activist's lives across decades, no, centuries, free speech will always prevail. The message will be seen, heard, digested. People gravitate to honesty, even if it's ugly. And that's simply what I've offered up. Honesty. The point is, it NEVER works out for people that try to quell honest criticism. And while yes, I wrote that purposefully outlandishly over the top, partially to drive a point, using something called "blue comedic effect", past the nuance is the core of it all, a raw, honest, unapologetic opinion shared by an overwhelming number of players.

And there's more to come, but you'll have to simply listen. This isn't Blue Gartr's fight, so I'll not fill pages here much past this. I guess you'll have to listen to Aniero's show, if he ever gets around to reading my follow up response.

Ahm, no. You can scream and whine all you want, but if you want SANE people (especially mods) to listen stop being a raging douchebag.

[Twilight Sky]

Yep, lets ask for more emotes and shits (/nosebleed anyone?) in the cash shop, more poke/Digiminions to play Poke/Digimon, more glamour because outside of that crafting is useless, and more vertical progression because versatility, choices, and gearing options are sins apparently. Oh and yes, lets not forget that we're all retarded so its better not adding any kind of merit system or ability bonus learned with gears to give said gears any meaning.

Feel free to correct me or add on what I missed.

You're not wrong. And turns out Yoshida isn't even listening to his own dev team, LOL. Nerfing content before release. That's a first.

[RobertKordas]

It is and it isn't a problem stemming from the state of the game. It is in the sense that not even BG has been immune from the casual wrath bringing the game down. Read the Alexander thread. It's a sad, sad state. Not even the self proclaimed "hardcore" author has killed A3S according to his Twitter. Some definition of hardcore there.

It isn't in the sense that no default game subreddit will ever pander to the hardcore because that's not the population that makes up Reddit. Reddit has a mix of all classes of casual and hardcore but it will always be dominantly casual. That's something we accepted as mods a long time ago. There's no sense in trying to fight the user base on that. Is there a problem with people down voting hardcore opinions? Sure but there's literally nothing new the mods can do about that. It's a flaw in the way Reddit works.

Will we ever ban art or pictures? We've talked about it but all eventually agreed it'd be dumb to. There's literally nothing to talk about right now. The game is in a huge lull. The occurrence of screenshots and art naturally goes down on its own when there's actually things to talk about.

Will we ever allow people to call each other hambeasts? Fuck no and the guy is an idiot for thinking we would. He was more than welcome to post his letter without trying to offend as many people as possible. But instead he chose to be edgy. Fuck off with that.

I'd start of by saying that, while I agree with a lot of what this poster said, I'm not a fan of the body shaming and insults. With regard to the fan art, there is literally a subreddit for FFXIV art. Same with glamour. Yet, you do nothing to crack down on posts pertaining to either.

However, you guys religiously take down anything that sniffs of self promotion. There was a really good video with Frosty and Layla from Elysium and Arkk about Savage Alexander. It was a real good discussion and contrubutes to the overall discussion about the state of endgame. However, using your precedents with similar posts, why wasn't this taken down? If Dervy, Mr Happy, Xeno, etc videos are self promotion, why wasn't this? It was posted by Frosty and linked to his YouTube, which I'm amusing he monetizes. I'm not saying it should have been taken down, but I'm curious why one video is OK and another is not.

Personally, I think this contributes to the subreddit's extremely casual feel. Videos from content creators about gameplay is self promotion and gets taken down. Someone who wants to see content discussion videos, videos about improving performance, strategy guides, etc may not see those videos if they don't meet your arbitrary standards, but fetishized catgirls and cutesy pedo lala pics for all.

[Eanae]

Self promotion is not a subreddit rule it's a site wide rule. We literally have 0 say in the matter. But you're more than welcome to contact the Reddit admins and suggest they ease their policy. But as moderators we have absolutely ZERO control over site policy. The policy is not that you cannot post your own video. The policy is that you can't post ONLY your own stuff. If you're active in the community and want to share stuff you did now and then that's fine. If you come and post 100% your own stuff and never take part in the community that breaks the Reddit site wide rules and not enforcing them means we risk getting the community banned.

By the way, Mr Happy and Xeno videos are not banned. If you like their videos you're more than free to post them yourself.

[octopus]

I agree about the self promotion rule too. I found myself wondering "why is this allowed but the others are not" fairly often.

[LimitBreakRadio]

Look I said all this on my "failed podcast" but the way in which you heavily moderate that subreddit is a) unlike 90% of other subreddits I frequent and b) a poor moderation technique that I've used in my own community in the past. You've drummed out more actual community content creators then I can name. You constantly close threads that might be interesting or, god forbid, actually funny. You passively encourage "baby mods" which are people who fucking act like mods but aren't. And you straight up remove criticism of the way the place is run. And look how you play this very situation. You shut down a 150+ comment thread filled with a lot of good legit criticism of your moderating techniques and community. That was the most surprising thing of this whole thing, instead of the user population of r/ffxiv getting offended or defensive they actually went "shit, this has some good points" and took it to heart. This is the definition of shitty moderation. Look at the YouTube comments. Look at the 2 threads you closed. People dislike your community intensely. We hit a seriously big nerve and if you're not going to address it and do it in the open then people will continue to form their own opinions. LBR has been and continues to be a platform for people to express their opinions. We don't blunt of censor their opinions and we don't fucking shame them for it either. Nikki's email resonated with the bullshit I've witnessed go on there for years and I decided to say some shit about it. We have made constant invitations to explain your side, we have an open phone line and a live show every single sunday. In case you forgot I'll remind you, its "limitbreakradio" on Skype or 810-515-8715, we are live this Sunday at 2pm. You can leave a voicemail or email, though I feel that's hardly a dialogue. Now it's entirely on you guys, specifically the mods, how to handle this. Good luck. You'll need it.

[Eanae]

I agree about the self promotion rule too. I found myself wondering "why is this allowed but the others are not" fairly often.

The rule exists to prevent people from using Reddit as nothing but an advertising center. If the rule wasn't in place it would be full of ads and crap that no one cared about seeing in the first place. Reddit exists as a site to share things you saw and thought were cool, not to spam your own content over and over. Is the 9:1 rule too strict? Possibly. But again, not something we have any control over as moderators.

[Falisa]

https://www.reddit.com/r/announcemen...stions/cw34nuj

[Spider-Dan]

One thing history has proven time and time again, in the formation of the United States of America, during the racial tension of the civil rights movement, upon countless artists, dissenters, social commentators, and activist's lives across decades, no, centuries, free speech will always prevail.

You're probably the Rosa Parks of /r/ffxiv.

My favorite part was when you explicitly said that this new thing was not up to the quality standards of the old thing that you enjoyed previously, because now it caters to the lowest common denominator. I mean, I'm as big a fan of XI nostalgia as the next man, but it's like you're not even trying.

[Destinye]

On a serious note though. A lot of older MMOs (including even XI now) has raid/dungeon tiers built around a singular dungeons, for example Easy-Exploration mode which has its own bosses, drops and even mechanics. Even some of the most throwaway korean MMOs have it. So this game is as baseline standard as it gets though.

[Neon_Sea]

What's sad is this guy is providing us better content to enjoy then SE.

I can reread it without any lock outs too!

[FHT]

Will we ever allow people to call each other hambeasts? Fuck no and the guy is an idiot for thinking we would. He was more than welcome to post his letter without trying to offend as many people as possible. But instead he chose to be edgy. Fuck off with that.

I am not trying to offend you or anything but what I bolded is not true, even if you post a critic in the upmost polite way possible, the people over there will come down and go as far as calling you retarded because your opinion differ. It feels like its impossible to be a minimum constructive without offending anyone, with or without the use of bad words.

Your reply was good, but this very part can't be sold.

[Eanae]

I am not trying to offend you or anything but what I bolded is not true, even if you post a critic in the upmost polite way possible, the people over there will come down and go as far as calling you retarded because your opinion differ. It feels like its impossible to be a minimum constructive without offending anyone, with or without the use of bad words.

Your reply was good, but this very part can't be sold.

People jump on it sure, but we still read it all. And it's not like we haven't tried unpopular suggestions before. Remember how removing down votes went over with the community?

[Renavi]

If you seriously think that thread deserved to stay up, you're an idiot. All I saw from it was some guy was mad and decided to try and insult a bunch of people like a jackass. I must post on the bizzaro subreddit because all I ever see is people complaining about getting down voted for being 'elitist' or talking about ACT or w/e, when in actuality, I've never seen that to be the case. I also don't understand the complaints about having screenshots and art on the main subreddit, even if there are other subs for it. If there were more actual decent discussion threads then we wouldn't have those submissions on the front page. The fact that they make it there just means that's what the majority of people want to see. Why is that a problem?