PC Principal thread

[Andalusian girls]

I'm not sure what you mean by race, but would it be fair to say that there are distinct ethnicities with physical characteristics unique to them? Wasn't the last few pages arguing about the perceived possible racial insensitivity of an inherent characteristic to a certain group of people?

yeah unless i have terribly misinterpreted that that was an aggressively irrational clause. the concept of gender is the one that is a social construct and therefore infinitely malleable (to go back to a previous point, the two greatest masculine warrior archetypes of antiquity in Alexander and Achilles had gay lovers and antiquity was like well yes that's what men do), whereas race, while shall we say taxonomically smudgy, is clearly and irrefutably based in the germline. the distinct phenotypes shared by people with geographically proximate ancestors is so apparent it almost need not be expounded upon but; not a lot of redheads in East Africa, not a lot of afros in Scotland.

[Greatguardian]

I understand his post to mean that experiences and interactions within and between cultures are determined primarily by phenotype and are thus not strictly based on race, which he is treating (fairly imo) to be defined primarily by genotype.

The strength of the correlation between genotype and phenotype is already smudgy for some people and will only decrease as global mobility increases and intermingling becomes more common.

[thetruepandagod]

I'm too spun to remember what these words even are so have a heh from the UK.



facebook.com /cheshirepolice/posts/10155546384464015

[Andalusian girls]

I understand his post to mean that experiences and interactions within and between cultures are determined primarily by phenotype and are thus not strictly based on race, which he is treating (fairly imo) to be defined primarily by genotype.

The strength of the correlation between genotype and phenotype is already smudgy for some people and will only decrease as global mobility increases and intermingling becomes more common.

the strength of correlation between genotype and phenotype is a perfect positive of +1.0 once epigenetics has been taken into account and we determine the why to the what of gene expression. what Rachel Dolezal did to her hair has nothing to do with phenotype (unless you're embracing Dawkins' extended phenotype and extending it further by positing all human behavior is phenotypic, which is a wonderful argument, but also one that the previous page did not sniff).

i recognize the argument that if one is treated as a member of a particular race one is subject to a great deal of that race's experience, even if the treatment stems from a fraudulent masquerade and too much tanner, but the objectionable phrase stood out in glaring violation of every bone in my selected body. i mean fundamentally it is a rejection of evolution to state geographically isolated populations reacting to different selection pressures will produce no distinct attributes.

and while interbreeding will increase genetic variation it won't weaken expression or the correlation between genes and observable characteristics, what is expressed will just become less archetypal. that is to say a half-Mexican half-Welsh individual will have his genes to thank for his tan skin dark hair and green eyes as much as the blond haired blued eyed Scandinavian or the coarse haired black skinned Nigerian do for their respective phenotypes.

[Gredival]

I'm not sure what you mean by race, but would it be fair to say that there are distinct ethnicities with physical characteristics unique to them? Wasn't the last few pages arguing about the perceived possible racial insensitivity of an inherent characteristic to a certain group of people?

I meant mentally. Like the concept of being transracial depends on the idea that someone "feels" like they are not "insert race" which is an incoherent concept unless we argue about essential mental characteristics about races. Physical characteristics are irrelevant to this because you can't feel like you have a physical characteristic that you in fact do not.

Also what does obama having effigies being lynched have anything to do with him being mulatto? Or was the bush parentage more muddied than we have all been led to believe?

Spoiler: show

While outraged mobs certainly hang a politician's effigy regardless of race, you don't think symbols like nooses carried extra symbolic weight for people who hated Obama specifically because he was black? Come now.

[thetruepandagod]

I meant mentally. Like the concept of being transracial depends on the idea that someone "feels" like they are not "insert race" which is an incoherent concept unless we argue about essential mental characteristics about races. Physical characteristics are irrelevant to this because you can't feel like you have a physical characteristic that you in fact do not.

i think it's the ambien but I feel like stuff you just said is not quite right.

[Gredival]

i think it's the ambien but I feel like stuff you just said is not quite right.

I mean let's try apply it. You are Rachel Dolezal and you think you are transracial black. You were born with the #WrongSkin or whatever.

What does it mean to be "black on the inside but not the out"?

Nothing. It's a meaningless statement.

On the mental side, being "black on the inside" doesn't change anything unless you think that merely being black makes you feel the same life experiences differently than White, Asian, Hispanic, etc. people do. And that's a nonsensical claim. On the physical side, you cannot feel like you have darker skin that you do not in fact have; you can of course think certain physical characteristics are attractive, you may desire them, and you may take steps to acquire those characteristics. Once you acquire a look you like, you may think that this is how you want to look and how you should look. But that has nothing to do with being "black on the inside." That's just you wanting to look a certain way. And of course presenting yourself successfully as black isn't going to mean you are actually physiologically black; for example, medically speaking, you aren't going to have any chance of carrying the sickle cell gene.

Now black, white, Asian, Hispanics, etc. have different experiences in virtue of their race, but those experiences are largely the result of how other people treat you. Which means you can think you're black all you want, if people treat you like a rich white boy then you aren't experiencing life as a black woman. If you begin to successfully present yourself as a black woman, then you are starting to share in some of the same life experiences as a black woman. But there are some experiences you won't have (growing up black), and you will always have an out to escape racism against blacks by dumping your tan and hair treatments.

[Athas]

So youtube launched a video on refugees.

Jesus - the comments.

[Ksandra]

So does that make Rachel Dolezal black?

She certainly didn't have the experience of growing up black but she lived a number of years with people basically treating her as black and advocating for the black community as a member of that community. I won't say she is black insofar as I don't believe in the concept of being transrace, but she certainly has at least some shared life experience with African Americans and she is going through extremes to keep it that way.

The difference is that she, if she wanted to, has the option of escaping that experience (assuming her skin alterations and hair treatments are reversible) by looking white. That option isn't available to most blacks.

I get what you are going for Gred, but I would never ever call her black even if she had "some shared experiences." That would be like claiming Dustin Hoffman (a method actor) could be called autistic because of his time as Rain Man. She knows she's not black, she just feels she would fit in their community better for some of the dumbest reasons I've ever heard. ie. She feels she knows what it is like to be black because she grew up poor. Like wtf is that shit? Does she not know white poor people exist?



With that said, I know very little about Shaun King outside of like two FB friends who like to share his statuses. So I had to google some info and people can correct me if I am wrong here. I would say his situation is different because it seems like he was raised as if he was black (half?). I read that he was beat up in school, and other classmates/teachers confirmed that. Now, if he was beat up for being half then for sure he's had the experiences of being half. With people around him treating him as such. Which shows what you are going for which is a lot about perception. Kids thought he was half black because he would have told them he was half black, and they let their prejudices build from there, regardless on whether it was true or not.

He could be full white, but if the above is true then he at least has a way better claim to being half black than Rachel Dolezal has to being black.


IMHO If it turns out he's full white, then I don't think he's half black. But at the same time, I don't think that discredits what he has done because as far as he knew, he was.

[NynJa]

If my parents raised me as an apache helicopter and told me i am an apache helicopter, am i an apache helicopter?

[Guitarman]

If my parents raised me as an apache helicopter and told me i am an apache helicopter, am i an apache helicopter?

Yes, and if anyone says otherwise, they're a bigot.

[Yuri-G]

Relevant point, terrible over-used tired-ass bullshit meme.


Come on. This is BG. Do better.

[thetruepandagod]

I'm raising my kids as whatever ethnicity gets them the most benefits, the rare pale mohicans flying into an ivy league near u.

Spoiler: show

This is purely hypothetical as I will most likely never sire children.

Spoiler: show

I would be the asianiest asian parent ever tho and would consider them a failure if not trilingual and capable of playing instruments before the age of 5.

[Gredival]

I'm raising my kids as whatever ethnicity gets them the most benefits, the rare pale mohicans flying into an ivy league near u.

Spoiler: show

This is purely hypothetical as I will most likely never sire children.

Spoiler: show

I would be the asianiest asian parent ever tho and would consider them a failure if not trilingual and capable of playing instruments before the age of 5.

panda, we all know you do not have the persistence to keep up being a tiger mom for the 17 years it takes to get them into HYP.

[thetruepandagod]

panda, we all know you do not have the persistence to keep up being a tiger mom for the 17 years it takes to get them into HYP.

I think given my history I could give them a solid 5, if they aren't built for success by that point then I just don't know.

[Gredival]

I think given my history I could give them a solid 5, if they aren't built for success by that point then I just don't know.

Sorry maybe you can skate by with seven if you start late and you're willing to take the gamble that they can get straight A's in their HS freshman year without being forced to go to Kumon in elementary school as well as middle school.

[Ksandra]

If my parents raised me as an apache helicopter and told me i am an apache helicopter, am i an apache helicopter?

No, and your example is dumb and not realistic. Whereas his is a realistic scenario. He still would not be black, but at least it is understandable that he thought he was, and he might have been raised with those around him thinking he was, too.

It is also possible he actually is half black. It really isn't unbelievable.

[Guitarman]

So youtube launched a video on refugees.

Jesus - the comments.

I just...wow. Take a good, long look. That's how divided we are right now. Really, really gritting my teeth to not give my opinion one way or another on the topic, but damn.

[dasva]

So youtube launched a video on refugees.

Jesus - the comments.

At first I was like who hates Tom Petty... but then I saw the comments lol

[Ksandra]

omg those comments. Insane.