Reisenjima Augments Thread!

[Byrthnoth]

With Mythic AM3:
QA%*4 + (1-QA%)*(TA%)*3 + (1-QA%-(1-QA%)*TA%)*1.8

3% QA = 1.866 attacks/swing
2% QA = 1.844 attacks/swing
4% TA = 1.848 attacks/swing
3% TA = 1.836 attacks/swing

If you have a 30% TA rate base (THF)
3% QA = 2.2152 attacks/swing
2% QA = 2.1968 attacks/swing
4% TA = 2.208 attacks/swing
3% TA = 2.196 attacks/swing



Without Mythic AM3:
QA%*4 + (1-QA%)*(TA%)*3 + (1-QA%-(1-QA%)*TA%)*1

3% QA = 1.09 attacks/swing
2% QA = 1.06 attacks/swing
4% TA = 1.08 attacks/swing
3% TA = 1.06 attacks/swing

If you had 30% TA rate base (THF)
3% QA = 1.672 attacks/swing
2% QA = 1.648 attacks/swing
4% TA = 1.68 attacks/swing
3% TA = 1.66 attacks/swing
2% TA = 1.64 attacks/swing

In realistic conditions (everyone has some amount of double attack) even without AM3 3% QA is always going to be at least equal to 4% TA. 3% TA vs. 2% QA varies based on your distribution of multi-attack. For THF, for instance, 3% TA may be better than 2% QA even with Mythic AM3 up because your offhand doesn't get AM3 (2% QA:3.8448, 3% TA:3.856). Anyway, those relationships more or less hold.

[GilgameshBoshi]

The odds are higher of getting a piece that's useful for WS, because you can get up to 8% WSD or something with dark matter, but you would still need to get pretty lucky.

I can confirm that wsd9 is possible, friend got wsd9 on herc hands. Ill post a photo later when I get a chance

[AtrixWolfe]

I spent 500 stones on Skinflayer today and updated the wiki with the general system. Based on other information in this thread, like the above post, it seems likely that the caps on even Acc/Atk vary between weapons. Notably, there is only one slot for Acc and one for Atk, so the max any weapon can get is 31 of each stat (and they probably capped that to 30).

I didn't make the Skinflayer properties table, but for the melee path:
STR/DEX/AGI on-path

STP+1~4 (5 with Fern)
Triple Attack+1~3 (4 with Fern?)
Subtle Blow +1~7 (8 with Fern?)
WS Acc+1~15 (20 with Fern)
WS damage+1~2 (3 with Fern)
Crit. hit rate +1~3 (4 with Fern?)
Crit hit damage +1~5 (6 with Fern)
Waltz potency +1~9 (10 with Fern)

Physical damage taken -1~3 (4 with Fern?)

Notably, I got 53 PDT augments without any DT or MDT, so it looks like all the offpath trait augments are PDT at least for Skinflayer. This makes PDT about as common as the other 8 trait augments.

JP Wiki has said for quite some time the augments for skinflayer max are 20 for attributes, 3 for triple attack, 20 for damage, and 30 for acc and attack, making the best you could hope for probably 20 dex 20 damage 30 acc 30 attack and 3% TA.

I can't post links but here's the google shortened url without an actual link you'll have to copy and paste: goo.gl/Y23EfM

If you look here goo.gl/QaFGXA second column down is the dagger 短剣
Site doesn't work in google translate, seems to detect it's being used and redirect, had a JP friend help me.

[Jem]

Still out of the loop with gear atm so have a quick question.

Are Valorous Hose with QA +1 and WSD+2% any good? Or is there something that would easily beat that? I guess that would make the important WS stats on them STR+39, Attack +15, DA+3, QA+1, WSD+2%

The existing augments on it are STR +9, Acc +17, Atk +17

EDIT: Nevermind, took the new augments anyway

[Damane]

So to follow that one we have,

LS member of mine got this. All my envy.

Did SE really think about this one? That Augment is equivalent to about +47 shield skill...


So as to not clog up the augments thread I'll put the massive wall of PLD/Shield thoughts in spoilers

Spoiler: show

This has some fairly major implications for PLD and the current Shield Hierarchy.
Mind you, it's limited by actually having to get a full set of that augment via wtf random darkmatter augs.

Depending on the answers to a few questions that is.

1: how does Block+ interact with Reprisal?
Possibilities,
formula 1: (Base+BlockPlus)*Reprisal mod(1.5)
formula 2: (Base*Reprisal)+BlockPlus

Obviously, we'd prefer #1, as it yields greater gains.

2: Can Shields aside from Ochain actually hit 100% block rate?
Personally, I've been dismissing the existence of a block rate cap due to both Ochain, and the rates I've observed that were far higher than the old supposed 65% cap.

However, I have not actually seen capped block rate on anything but Ochain. In the few Priwen reprisal tests I've done, Priwen did Not cap block rate, even when the reprisal formula and Priwen bonus given by SE indicated it should be.

So, needs verification.

3: Is there a Block damage reduction cap?
The Block damage reduction on many newer shields has only been calculated, and never to my knowledge, actually tested.

And Srivatsa kind off begs the question of if there's a cap.
*BTW, there was an error in my Srivatsa evaluation post I made on AH awhile back. I had the block damage- a 92. Based on the factors is should actually be 98.

Spoiler: show

The break down is
Size 5 shield. 55
99 PLD Shield Def bonus. 6
75 def/2 floored = 37
55+6+37=98
Flooring the decimal is, frankly, an assumption of mine. But a reasonable one, and it really doesn't make of break any comparison.

btw, this difference doeskin' notably change the conclusion of my previous Srivatsa evaluation/Block rate was still too damn low.
These augments though...

If there's not a cap, then wearing either of the +3 shield def bonus pieces with Srivatsa would push you to 100% block dmg-.

So, a bit of speculation.

IF we assume optimal answers to these questions... those being
1:Formula one
2: Yes
3: no cap
Then there are some interesting possibilities.

So.
+10 block rate 0n 5 pieces. Toss in Thureous earring for +52 block.
Let's say lvl 126 mobs.

Ridiculous.

Priwen(and Ochain for that matter) loses it's advantage since Srivatsa would also be capping.

Further, since Srivatsa should be well over capped with Reprisal up, you can drop piece of block+ and wear +3 shield def bonus for -100% block damage.

At this point we'd be looking at literally, Directional physical invincibility. To anything that's blockable that is. If this actually works, it'd make PDT(and Burtgang's PDT II) pointless. <,<;

Even moving up to 133 mobs, it's more of the same.
*note. Based rates are calculated based on my 133 sample for Aegis.
So not hard data, but a good start

Still enough leeway with reprisal up to drop 1 piece of block+ for SDB...

SE, did you think this through?

Still this thought does depend on a lot of factors.
Have to get optimal answers to the 3 questions, and then some crazy, or just crazy rich, bastard has to actually make a set of this stuff on random as hell DM augs...

That aside, here's a look at the general shield Hierarchy when you have +52 in block+ gear.

There are probably other shields that are in the running now that just didn't have the block rate for it before, but I don't really care to go through them atm.

I'd say that for most of us, this doesn't change much. At most you might get 1 piece with decent block+. and if you do, it's probably best in slot, defensively, depending on what shield you're using.

But getting good enough augments to really change things would be a nightmare. Interesting possibility though.

Actually i have gotten quiet alot of successfull block + augments in this weak (i just dont play pld), to me TH+ QA+ Refresh+ seem more rare and block+ seems more commen, well not very common but it in 6 augments every day 1 of them was scussfull block+

[Smacks]

Hello !

I'm curious to know if someone know if there's a cap for multiple attack (DA/TA/QA). It seems that in full multi-hit set, in THF Vajra, when i AM3, i don't up TP quicker than without AM3.

[Snprphnx]

Hello !

I'm curious to know if someone know if there's a cap for multiple attack (SA/TA/QA). It seems that in full multi-hit set, in THF Vajra, when i AM3, i don't up TP quicker than without AM3.

If I'm not mistaken, multi-attack weapons and DA/TA/QA can not both proc in the same attack round. If the weapon procs, then the others can't. Or the other way around.

I could be wrong though.

[Byrthnoth]

THF has butt-tons of multiattack right now and an offhand. I'm running something like 2% QA, 56% TA, and 11% DA in my TP gear when /NIN. Thus I average 4.66 swings/round with AM3 or 4.34 swings/round without AM3, making AM3 only a 7% DPS/TP gain upgrade. Against hard content, AM1 is almost certainly better than AM3 for such a THF. Heck, or Twashtar just all the time.

[Reposado]

Yea with the availability of so much multihit now compared to the past and the change to empy ODTriple i think they might make a decent comparison now. Cant wait to see the supposed means to gather HMP.

[Khajit]

What was the change to empy OD triple?
Also got these last night on the first aug.

I want to hold them tight and never let go.

[Byrthnoth]

Well, it used to be occasionally doubles, and now it's occasionally triples with the same distribution (30-50% based on TP) and longer duration (3 minutes for AM3?)

It's so crazy that Twashtar single wielding on DNC is a really attractive option on paper (but doesn't feel that way when I try it in practice).

[Dotsudoku]

Doesn't seem super surprising. Didn't you have solo mythic as best for at least short period of time?

[Fwahm]

THF has butt-tons of multiattack right now and an offhand. I'm running something like 2% QA, 56% TA, and 11% DA in my TP gear when /NIN. Thus I average 4.66 swings/round with AM3 or 4.34 swings/round without AM3, making AM3 only a 7% DPS/TP gain upgrade. Against hard content, AM1 is almost certainly better than AM3 for such a THF. Heck, or Twashtar just all the time.

On said hard content, wouldn't it be better to keep up AM3, and just ditch some of the DA and TA for accuracy and STP?

[Byrthnoth]

Doesn't seem super surprising. Didn't you have solo mythic as best for at least short period of time?

Briefly at level 90 or something, before Mythics became OA2-3 I think?

On said hard content, wouldn't it be better to keep up AM3, and just ditch some of the DA and TA for accuracy and STP?

Depends what the trade-off is and how much Acc you need. The only reason to not have 30 Acc on your 4% TA Herculean gear right now is your patience with the system and gil reserves, so your multi-attack sacrifices will be more on the range of Bleating -> Letalis, Epona's/Hetairoi -> Ramuh +1x2, Adhemar Bonnet +1 -> Dampening Tam (not really a multi-attack downgrade), Brutal -> Zennaroi, Windbuffet +1 -> Olensi, etc. THF starts with 19% TA just from traits, merits, and job points. If you are using Herculean body/hands/feet, that's another potential 16% TA in your Acc set.

AM1 is 30-49 Acc for Mythics. If you're looking at swapping all your accessories and losing 13% TA/8% DA and gaining 1% QA and about 60 Acc, maybe do a less extreme switch and use AM1.

[Montag]

I think you're missing some of the nicer Acc/STP swaps. Good acc swaps (at least as far as I have seen in my blu calculations) are bleating > lupine, asperity > combatants, brutal > dignitary's -2 TA / -7 DA / +8 STP / +49 acc. Slightly different if you're already using something like clotharius or have telos, but still as much acc as AM1 + a lot of STP which has increased value when using AM3/ridiculous multihit. Seems like there might be some benefit to STP swaps if it gains you some acc, especially given your high base multiattack.

[Byrthnoth]

I assumed we were already using Combatant's, so your remaining two swaps are only worth 25 Acc for me (and all of your swaps together are ~37 Acc). Those two remaining slots are probably better options than the ones I have. So yeah, I'd be proposing using a set of swaps like that with AM1 instead of the full switch I listed.

[Montag]

So 49 was a typo (shouldn't be posting at work!). 25 acc still comes pretty close to the 30 acc lower bound on AM1. I was really still not sure about the AM3 > AM1 swap because even if I plug in all those acc swaps into the blu spreadsheet I think get AM3 coming out ahead by like 6-7%. So I went through and did out all of the math using the you multiattack numbers from earlier in the thread: 2QA/56TA/11DA which you said was 4.66 swings per round with AM3 (it's actually closer to 4.7 when you include DA) and 4.34 (4.4 including DA) without AM3. If I make all the swaps you mention and get +1 QA / -13 TA / -8 DA (so 3QA/43TA/3DA) I get 4.3 swings per round with AM3, 3.88 without. So with all those acc swaps with AM3 you will be swinging almost as much as your low acc set without AM3, but netting 60 acc instead of 30-49. There are a bunch of other variables here like STP/crit rate/crit dmg etc. and it's probably impossible to figure them all in without using something more sophisticated than google calculator, but I think that AM3 is probably still the way to go, unless you're willing to spend a lot of time finding the exact break point in gear trade offs where AM1 is going to be worth it.

[Reposado]

Woozie would have mathed this out and spoken 200 words per minute doing so. RIP buddy

[Mojo]

9 WSD on Merlinic Crackows. Hello Khatvanga WS piece

[Damane]

9 WSD on Merlinic Crackows. Hello Khatvanga WS piece

i got the same ¬.¬ I am confused!