Increased isolationism

[solracht]

Specifically, the mount from A4S I'm really hopping they place a 1~5% drop rate on it for people who have cleared it 3.2+. This was something done in WoW's old raids that rewarded players that actually gave a shit about doing content when it was current while still allowing players to go back for a chance at it.

I've been hoping for this since Savage came out and I expect to be very disappointed.

[haroldsaxon]

Why? What purpose does it serve to make it difficult for people to clear irrelevant 2-year-old content?

The only effect this would have would be making it impossible to get a group of people who know what they're doing to come along (for glamz etc.), as it's not worth teaching a new person these irrelevant fights from scratch if you have to do it under sync.

Conversely I could say what purpose does it serve to make every piece of old content completely faceroll and thus irrelevant because the fight is so easy. Its not like Coil or the Extreme Primals are actually required to progress to current end game.

As with all things in this game, if you give people an incentive, they will do it. If the Eso reward in 3.2 for a new player isn't enough of a bonus and new players are struggling to do the content, then increase it. I don't think players should be forced to experience content that isn't at its intended i-level, let alone level. Its a let down.

Yeah, this. One of the best parts of Heavensward is lowmanning old content at level60, not sure why anyone would think its a good idea to ruin that.

I'd be fine if certain things were only achievable when you're sync'd (Savage titles, Savage mount) but I see no point in arbitrarily syncing all old content.

I said for first time clears, so people are free to go back and do things unsync'ed if they already have the clear.

[Niiro]

If you made first time clears be level and ilvl synced I think people just wouldn't do them at all tbh.

At least not the harder fights where carrying dead people isn't as feasible for the average player.

[haroldsaxon]

I actually really like the idea of achievements only for doing it synced thinking about it. Unfortunately, as savage second coil proved, its not enough to get people to do them.

Maybe if doing them sync'ed gave you another bonus of some kind - maybe materia?

It would be nice if they made lots of new content, but as they can't it would be nice if they actually encouraged doing synced extreme+ level old content.

[Niiro]

Oh I would definitely be for all achievements being locked behind synced runs, idk why they didn't in the first place.

[Kipling]

Because like he said, achievements have shown to not be enough motivation for people. Probably the same reason we don't have speedrun achievements and other things yet. Only a small percentage would care, so it's written off as a waste of development time.

[Niiro]

I've never really seen achievements as a draw to begin with either, so you might as well make them actually worth something in terms of.....you know.....achievement?

ie. Doing the fight in a way that retains the original challenge

[Kaiyoko]

Because like he said, achievements have shown to not be enough motivation for people. Probably the same reason we don't have speedrun achievements and other things yet. Only a small percentage would care, so it's written off as a waste of development time.

I don't understand this point of view from them. Even when I'm queuing expert or hard roulette solo people are trying to speed run them. I rarely run across people who don't try to speed run anymore. They even promoted speed running at fanfest. Why is this not in the game as achievements?

[Spider-Dan]

Conversely I could say what purpose does it serve to make every piece of old content completely faceroll and thus irrelevant because the fight is so easy. Its not like Coil or the Extreme Primals are actually required to progress to current end game.

The fights are still irrelevant and outdated no matter how easy (or hard) they are, so there's no reason to block people from completing them.

I don't think players should be forced to experience content that isn't at its intended i-level, let alone level. Its a let down.

Isn't there already an option to use original level sync? If there isn't, there should be. In any case, that should always be an option, not something forced upon people who have never cleared it.

There is no compelling argument for why a person who started XIV with HW and wants to see the old coil storyline should be forced to learn optimized-yet-obsolete LV50 rotations, and either find a group of like-minded unicorns, or put some well-meaning friends through the torture of re-teaching (and remembering) meaningless fights from scratch.

This is the pinnacle of petty elitism. It is no different than the old "it took me 450k EXP to get to 75, so they should have to do that too!" days of XI.

I said for first time clears, so people are free to go back and do things unsync'ed if they already have the clear.

The first time clears are the people who LEAST need this forced upon them. If anything, it should be exactly the opposite: cannot sync until after you've already cleared it. Prove that you understand the basics of how the fight works before you waste anyone else's time trying to do it while handcuffed.

[haroldsaxon]

The fights are still irrelevant and outdated no matter how easy (or hard) they are, so there's no reason to block people from completing them.


Isn't there already an option to force original level sync? If there isn't, there should be. In any case, that should always be an option, not something forced upon people who have never cleared it.

There is no compelling argument for why a person who started XIV with HW and wants to see the old coil storyline should be forced to learn optimized-yet-obsolete LV50 rotations, and either find a group of like-minded unicorns, or put some well-meaning friends through the torture of re-teaching (and remembering) meaningless fights from scratch.

This is the pinnacle of petty elitism. It is no different than the old "it took me 450k EXP to get to 75, so they should have to do that too!" days of XI.


The first time clears are the people who LEAST need this forced upon them. If anything, it should be exactly the opposite: cannot sync until after you've cleared it.

People can still complete them. But why should a new player be pressured to waltz through a fight without actually experiencing it properly. If I was levelling up a new character without experiencing the fight, i'd want to experience the fight properly.

If I knew people that wanted to go through the old coil synced, i'd gladly help out, as long as they were willing to prepare themselves for the fight.

I can understand it if people want to catch up as soon as they can to HW content, but this isn't gating any current content. I don't get why people would want to reduce the amount of stuff to do in the game. Its nothing to do with elitism. Its about wanting more content that people are doing in the game rather than the snoozefest that we have now.

[Niiro]

For most of the playerbase "experiencing the fight" really just means going in and seeing it happen and watching the cutscenes.

They don't very much care about the challenge.

Likewise while you may be interested and willing to do the fights the old fashioned way with new people I'd say most people aren't.

[Edelweiss]

For most of the playerbase "experiencing the fight" really just means going in and seeing it happen and watching the cutscenes.

They don't very much care about the challenge.

Likewise while you may be interested and willing to do the fights the old fashioned way with new people I'd say most people aren't.

If it's outdated gear, then yeah fuck that.

[solracht]

But why should a new player be pressured to waltz through a fight without actually experiencing it properly.

The way things are now, the alternative to this isn't "experiencing the fight properly", the alternative is never getting to do the fight at all. There is very little incentive for experienced players to go back and help with old unsyc'd fights as it is, and there aren't enough new players to sustain progression through old tiers by themselves.

Its about wanting more content that people are doing in the game rather than the snoozefest that we have now.

The real way to achieve this is by adding good incentives to do the old fights while sync'd, not forcing the sync itself. There are a lot of things they could do (like giving raids done via the minimum ilevel mode extra rewards, or even a chance at max ilevel aetherial gear) but won't.

[Niiro]

The way the game cannabalizes content at the rate it does and the complete lack of horizontal progression there's virtually nothing aside from novelty rewards to add to outdated fights that I can think of (ie. ponies).

Bonus tomes are....yea ok, but uncapped tomes are easy to get and capped tomes are, well, capped.

[Kaiyoko]

The real way to achieve this is by adding good incentives to do the old fights while sync'd, not forcing the sync itself. There are a lot of things they could do (like giving raids done via the minimum ilevel mode extra rewards, or even a chance at max ilevel aetherial gear) but won't.

Beat BCoB with minimum ilvl w/o echo for an achievement + minion.
Repeat for SCoB and FCoB.

Get all 3 achievments, get a Bahamut mount.

So many people would go back and do the fights how they were and the content would be utilized.

Edit:

Clear BCoB, SCoB, or FCoB with the new comer bonus lvl synced 50 times ( exaggeration ) for X mount or access to an NPC that sells dyable glamour from those raids.

[solracht]

Beat BCoB with minimum ilvl w/o echo for an achievement + minion.
Repeat for SCoB and FCoB.

Get all 3 achievments, get a Bahamut mount.

So many people would go back and do the fights how they were and the content would be utilized.

While we're talking about this, where the fuck is my Glory of the Raider? SE pls

[Kaiyoko]

While we're talking about this, where the fuck is my Glory of the Raider? SE pls

Do you really want to do A4S w/ 0 deaths lol? Because that's what it would need to be.

[haroldsaxon]

For most of the playerbase "experiencing the fight" really just means going in and seeing it happen and watching the cutscenes.

They don't very much care about the challenge.

Likewise while you may be interested and willing to do the fights the old fashioned way with new people I'd say most people aren't.

But the point was there aren't any road blocks in the game so that people think "Oh, i'm not performing well, lets work at this". Savage just gives people an excuse to go "Wah, SE made these too hard, this is for the top 0.01% of players". Its just face roll content after faceroll content, Bam Savage, then a half decent primal that everyone overgears for anyway in 3.1.

The way things are now, the alternative to this isn't "experiencing the fight properly", the alternative is never getting to do the fight at all. There is very little incentive for experienced players to go back and help with old unsyc'd fights as it is, and there aren't enough new players to sustain progression through old tiers by themselves.

The real way to achieve this is by adding good incentives to do the old fights while sync'd, not forcing the sync itself. There are a lot of things they could do (like giving raids done via the minimum ilevel mode extra rewards, or even a chance at max ilevel aetherial gear) but won't.

I agree that would be a better way of doing it. Make the reward for helping a new player through it worth it - and for the new player doing it. Allow them to get a bunch of relic items upon first completion. But it should be done sync'ed, but would require them to add something in to detect the first completion of doing something synced. Or do something like Niiro or Kaiyoko - minions or mounts.

Its a shame the way the game churns through content and makes everything worthless every 7 months or so (or 10+ lately).

[solracht]

Do you really want to do A4S w/ 0 deaths lol? Because that's what it would need to be.

There's so much fun stuff they could do with a Glory of the Raider achievement, plus it'd give the hardcores something to work on during the content droughts at very little development cost. Even if the achievements were borderline impossible until the next tier it's still something people could go back to later down the road.

They could also add 3-4 achievements per fight for best results.

Spoiler: show

A1S: clear the fight while shrinking only two Tonze missiles per cycle
A1S: clear the fight while the Oppressors are at x damage stacks
A1S: clear the fight while all 8 party members are suffering Mini
A2S: clear the fight using 2/1/0 gobwalkers
A3S: clear the fight while only passing two Digititis marks per cast
A3S: clear the fight after getting atrophied by Hand of Prayer/Parting
A3S: clear the fight after letting one Liquid Gaol restore 30% of its HP
A3S: clear the fight while the boss is at x damage stacks
etc, plus the obvious speed kill achievements

[Niiro]

But the point was there aren't any road blocks in the game so that people think "Oh, i'm not performing well, lets work at this". Savage just gives people an excuse to go "Wah, SE made these too hard, this is for the top 0.01% of players". Its just face roll content after faceroll content, Bam Savage, then a half decent primal that everyone overgears for anyway in 3.1.

But the content we've been talking about is optional to begin with, it's not a road block that's actually blocking anything.

The only 2 realistic options are let people get carried for the experience or abandon it entirely really, the number of people that are going to go back and learn these hard fights for no gameplay reward is going to be very small.