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  1. #121

    I think we would all agree that more challenging, engaging, rewarding content outside of raids would be a good thing.

    But owait not enough devs/resources/time/so sorry/please look forward to it.

    Also server transfers make them far too much money, they know damn well what they're doing in that regard.

    The bottom line is SE has a captive fan base with XIV, they don't need to make a better game.

  2. #122
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    The point is more:

    You could have fun doing whatever - but XIV as of now doesn't really push you to get better because the game will gladly hold your hand by design for most of the content. The story takes you into encounters with a primal but they've toned them down to the point the only reason you'll have trouble is on one shot mechanics or simply being new to it. They also tone down mechanics to the point the ex (original form) is usually quite the contrast and a lot of people can't do it, and by a lot of people, the ones who DO need the kick more than anything to get better.

    We've all been in parties with people who make the same mistakes the whole fight or refuse to dodge indicators, usually after 70 minutes you should know if a bomb drops behind you...get the fuck away from it (example mechanic), but standing ontop of the bomb for 70 minutes? At that point you just don't care because a lot of content in this game have you not caring about the consequences, which is why they drop the nerf hammer hard and any hard trial in the storyline immediately gets nerfed or complained about because they have to...gasp do something other than auto attack 1-2-3.

    Horizontal progression is always good but this game is designed in such a way it would horribly break...everything. This is why Diadem was such a disappointment, it was a really good chance to branch things out but the "skill" was so low and it was basically a loot pinata. Coil is a good example of "XI style" as not only was your reward gear, but also storyline and the difficulty was set that you couldn't braindead your way through it. Some of it was easier than others but it was end-game content that felt like "okay, you've come this far and learned how to play the game and your job, now put it to the test." - So you pushed to get better so you could get the gear and storyline...ever since then, you don't have to "git gud" to get rewarded, which leads to people being extremely lazy.

    It's a point as to why Savage was shit in terms of design but it was good for those who could do it - It just, compared to how the game was going so far it was such a steep difficulty shift which caused quite a bit of fallout (we all heard about the A3S wall for general raiders.)

    The whole "without raiders thing" is kind of accurate simply because no content outside of high end raid content requires such efficiency. Sure you could max out in full i210 and do Ravana Ex..but you're overgeared, you don't figure things out other than you're burning the roach down insanely fast. Content that actually requires x accuracy and how efficient your current rotation is crucial to figuring things out (for example) since you're more than likely already over the accuracy cap on content like Bismarck/Ravana/Alexander Normal simply by being generally geared - How will the "non-raiders" figure out certain stuff on content meant to technically be blown through? All things get figured out in time, but usually being in higher content is where testing really comes into play because I'm not sure what your maximized rotation on Shiva Ex at level 60 really does for you. Yay ponies I guess?

    As for this:
    Do you REALLY want friends, or just people to help you reliably get shit?
    Pretty much everyone I did end-game with in XI from 2004-2014 were rl friends, friends I met on game who were in Japan, Europe and America and people who were basically acquaintances but never someone I seen to "just use for my gains" which has become far more apparent in later years of this genre and with XIV..honestly, look at the game's design:

    Do you really wonder why it's such a different contrast? You had stuff happen in XI, sure..but people also killed their "career" by being an idiot. Steal an LS bank? Cool, hop servers and hope no one recognizes you..but good chance you were already put on a "list" and no one will take you to any end-game content ever again, so community overall, friends or not, matter much more.

  3. #123
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    I still really wish they'd throw accuracy right out the fucking window. Shit in XIV is either too fucking hard for 'casual' players (E.G. Extreme Primals, Alexander Savage), or too fucking easy for competent players ("Hard" Primals, Story Trials, 24 man content, Dungeons, Alexander Normal).

    Chrysalis and Steps of Faith were... abnormal trials for sure. The first had something that could actually be considered a tank buster (Double/Triple) and a DPS check. The second was an overall DPS check with mechanics that were EXTREMELY NEW with many that were left unexplained. It took 3 attempts before I realized that there were these things called Dragonkillers on towers I could hop on and on top of that the second and third dragonkillers required people to actually snare the dragon.

    Beyond that, there's no compensation for helping new players learn trials. If I see a Thordan Ex learning party thats says pre-meteors I'm not doing that unless I got some friends helping friends or its a friend of my own because you're not even going to get the 100 law bonus (Which until 3.15 was even 'why the fuck even bother getting it'). There's no reward for spending an hour getting essentially nothing done.

    Diadem's a fucking joke and making the gear i205 wouldn't have changed anything because once again, 5 item levels does very little. You'll get 2-3 extra main stats per armor piece and 1-2 extra from each accessory over i200. The difference in strength from i70 to i90 is much larger than i190 to i210. The itemization used in ARR and HW can't be used in 4.0 without a serious overhaul.

    And nevermind how fucked over crafters got in HW. "Here, have some weekly chores that you have to cap out to get i170 gear. Or you could make i170 gear DoW/DoM gear aaah who are we kidding no one wants that shit alexander drops i190 lol". Then 3.1 the specializations came into place and now fucking i185 gear is cheaper to make than i170 gear.

    Nevermind the kick to the balls that the whole idea of 'You can craft as a level60 carpenter and have no other jobs leveled' bullshit. Or the whole fact that you need 3 skins to make 1 leather now and everything fucking requires an alchemy recipe because fuck you.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    My emphasis is more that an alternative to raiding should exist. Part of the culture aspect I waggle my finger at is the angle that if you don't raid, you don't deserve progress past a certain point. It may be a difficult concept to imagine, but challenging solo content could be a thing, or even something that'd scale appropriately so you can do it alone or with a couple buddies whenever. What raiding should ultimately be is a vehicle that gets you to the destination faster due to the added social requirements and not being the only way there. If, by chance, the end result is that nobody raids in consequence, was it something the players really wanted and not something they do because it was the only way?
    Yes we should definitely advocate solo play and develop more content for solo over multiplayer content in a multiplayer game.
    Jesus. This is the mentality that's killing MMOs as a genre. And unfortunately the mentality that's developed by how modern MMO content is laid out. You can do almost everything solo, at least half of the content is solo play. It's a snake eating its own tail at this point. If you do so much solo that you forget you're playing a multiplayer game, what is the point of it even being a multiplayer game?

    Compounding the problems that mentality brings, the community in XIV is further broken because the players get fucking coddled at every turn by nerfs and echo. Instead of building up the playerbase to meet the requirements of the difficult content, the devs do nothing but dumb shit down to appease the lowest common denominator, which are unfortunately by and large the people throwing gobs of money at the cash shop for shitty reskinned glamours and whining about how raiders shouldn't get rewarded for being better players than they are. Shit's broken beyond fixing at this point.

  5. #125

    Gonna jump around a bit in your post, Des...
    Pretty much everyone I did end-game with in XI from 2004-2014 were rl friends, friends I met on game who were in Japan, Europe and America and people who were basically acquaintances but never someone I seen to "just use for my gains" which has become far more apparent in later years of this genre and with XIV..honestly, look at the game's design:
    I didn't rush into XI's endgame because I wasn't interested in the JP drama and all that, but come late-2006 it was pretty much all I had left to do. When I finally got into a group, it involved 3 leaders I actually got along pretty well with and would even call them friends. Yet, come 2009, they'd burnt out or quit, leaving me with others who stopped behaving without the presence of those 3. Some went on to accuse me of never helping anyone in the shell when what they really meant was that I wasn't helping them specifically. I toughed things out with a few others I was still on good terms with, but once Abyssea died down and things shifted back toward alliance content, I lost any and all motivation to support people who would rather accuse than accommodate. Of like the 1 or 2 other english shells we had left, I didn't really have friends in them in part due to the exclusivity XI bred in its earlier years. Dropping the game kinda felt like a no-brainer at that point.

    Do you really wonder why it's such a different contrast? You had stuff happen in XI, sure..but people also killed their "career" by being an idiot. Steal an LS bank? Cool, hop servers and hope no one recognizes you..but good chance you were already put on a "list" and no one will take you to any end-game content ever again, so community overall, friends or not, matter much more.
    I can't say blacklists amounted to shit. My server had problem players. What happened? They united and still did their thing, sometimes at the expense of others. Changing your name and jumping to another server wasn't difficult. At best, you could've tried to associate race/look and job levels, but if someone didn't register on FFXIAH after a point, you wouldn't know what all they had. Those that truly cared about cross-server word of mouth were likely a minority, instead you'd have the random group being all, "Oh, he has a relic! Pick him up!" and then they do whatever. Basically, the goal frequently outshines whatever sense of social justice we may want to carry into the equation.

    The whole "without raiders thing" is kind of accurate simply because no content outside of high end raid content requires such efficiency. Sure you could max out in full i210 and do Ravana Ex..but you're overgeared, you don't figure things out other than you're burning the roach down insanely fast. Content that actually requires x accuracy and how efficient your current rotation is crucial to figuring things out (for example) since you're more than likely already over the accuracy cap on content like Bismarck/Ravana/Alexander Normal simply by being generally geared - How will the "non-raiders" figure out certain stuff on content meant to technically be blown through? All things get figured out in time, but usually being in higher content is where testing really comes into play because I'm not sure what your maximized rotation on Shiva Ex at level 60 really does for you. Yay ponies I guess?
    Some may disagree with this sentiment, but if a piece of content requires, say, an average ilvl of 200, if you have that, any combination of gear should actually be sufficient. Issues like accuracy instead strike me as poor balancing relative to that gating metric, typically resulting in some gear being junk on release since it doesn't fit into the eventual meta. Rotations are also important, yes, but paper has a bad habit of not matching practice once your start factoring in evading mechanics, lag, or even basic human error. I remember BRDs being the preferred ranged DPS here at a time since they didn't have to worry about cast times like BLMs did.
    We've all been in parties with people who make the same mistakes the whole fight or refuse to dodge indicators, usually after 70 minutes you should know if a bomb drops behind you...get the fuck away from it (example mechanic), but standing ontop of the bomb for 70 minutes? At that point you just don't care because a lot of content in this game have you not caring about the consequences, which is why they drop the nerf hammer hard and any hard trial in the storyline immediately gets nerfed or complained about because they have to...gasp do something other than auto attack 1-2-3.
    I've had guys like that, yeah. Were they bad or intentionally trolling? I don't know. What I do know is that if one person has the power to completely ruin the experience for everyone else, then the design is shit. I've seen enough flak about XIV's rigid party structure that I can agree with it. DPS checks balanced around 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 4 DPS doesn't really leave much room for flexibility in the 8-man setting. Though, as we knew from XI, some fights were actually easier if you took less people, usually due to TP feed. Still, the game wasn't so tightly regimented. End of the day, perhaps XIV and other MMOs are suffering a bit too much from the devs telling us how to play instead of just letting us play.

    Moving on...
    Also server transfers make them far too much money, they know damn well what they're doing in that regard.

    The bottom line is SE has a captive fan base with XIV, they don't need to make a better game.
    While tricky to figure out, gauging one-time fees against the sustained subs of people who would've otherwise quit might offset that handily. Unfortunately, without any kind of exit survey, SE wouldn't know for sure why people leave.

    As for the fan base, I guess that's true to an extent. I'm probably being too painfully idealistic in thinking MMOs could be better than they are and have been, but part of that evolution requires the players themselves breaking out of old habits or just accepting what seems to be the status quo. Instead, it just seems more like I see people saying, "Oh, I played such and such for X months, then quit..." Some think it's because there's no server culture. Some claim it lack of PvP. I personally subscribe more to the notion of the raiding endgame being stale as fuck. There's no single right or wrong answer, but I'm not sure an MMO trying to go all niche is to its benefit. Archage stands out as the most recent attempt at that, but it flopped here. I suspect Black Desert will follow in its footsteps, in large part because PvE is more important to western audiences. Even WoW reflects this in the number of PvP servers relative to PvE.

    Edit:
    Yes we should definitely advocate solo play and develop more content for solo over multiplayer content in a multiplayer game.
    Your problem here seems rooted in the fact you think multiplayer should be playing with everyone 24/7. Believe it or not, solo players still influence servers. Some through the form of farming, others in improving their gear and filling a party slot later on. If you really want to believe MMOs shouldn't be pick-up-and-play friendly, then I guess I can't do much about that, but I don't believe they should only be playable if you have a 2+ hour time chunk ahead of you per session, where a significant portion of that is lost due to party formation. And even that leads to other issues like XI vets can attest to, like getting to an EXP camp and having someone bail after the first kill.

    Ultimately, these games should not be discouraging people from coming together for the common good. I'd actually say a lot of potential is lost with the emphasis of closed instancing, but I also understand why instancing exists: Content that people can't partake in is content that might as well not exist. What's the satisfactory percentage, here? The earlier referenced 10-15%? That doesn't make sense to me. In fact, any other business would likely cut such a poorly performing section, yet MMO players holding on to that dream of mass, epic battles seem to want to desperately defy that logic regardless of evidence presented against the successes and failures. They want to believe we'd all be better off if we saw the light, got good, or whatever, but some of the issues are and will continue to remain outside the individual player's control. So, what, fuck them? No thanks.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    My emphasis is more that an alternative to raiding should exist. Part of the culture aspect I waggle my finger at is the angle that if you don't raid, you don't deserve progress past a certain point. It may be a difficult concept to imagine, but challenging solo content could be a thing, or even something that'd scale appropriately so you can do it alone or with a couple buddies whenever. What raiding should ultimately be is a vehicle that gets you to the destination faster due to the added social requirements and not being the only way there. If, by chance, the end result is that nobody raids in consequence, was it something the players really wanted and not something they do because it was the only way? Frankly, I see the hardcores doing both. Otherwise, the evolution of MMOs in a thing. WoW started off thinking 40-man raids were where it's at, but then they cut manpower requirements. And if hurt feelings are what's keeping you back from letting others enjoy the game, there's the whole pot and kettle analogy for the "whinging" there.
    I agree that more challenging content is needed, but why did you say Diadem was a step in the right direction in regards to that in your previous post? I raid, but do I want raiding to be the only content in the game? Does the majority of raiders want that? Of course they don't. The big issue we've all been saying is the lack of content across the board. But I don't think Solo content should be rewarded with top end gear, but I would like to see more challenging solo content.

    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    The whole "such and such wouldn't exist!" angle without raiders is a tired one, too. This presumes that no one else figures anything out. Some simply don't share because of world first blah or wanting to take advantage of exploits as much as possible before the nerf bat. Defining a casual player really comes down to time investment, which doesn't disqualify them from wanting to know how the game works or figuring it out themselves. I look to XIV's economy and don't see the raid scene being a driving force, in large part because crafted gear is inferior while furniture is more the crafter endgame. Not everyone's into vanity sets, either. Would things have a slower turnaround? Probably. How much? Who knows. Supply and Demand is a funky thing like that. Big point here is to simply not say never. My thought is the economy could thrive even more if Yoshi stopped being so afraid of RMT and let crafting really matter outside of relic mats.
    Name me a non raider based theorycrafter in FFXIV. Dervy raids. As I said before, nothing wrong with someone being casual. Economy? Look at materia and crafted gear in previous raid patches. Look at T5 materia - raiders getting ready for 3.2. Look at Pot's. Look at Food. They all have large amounts of movement during progression.

    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    Socially, I do believe there are a couple things that need to become the MMO standard sooner, if not later. The first is the complete elimination of server/world transfer fees. Part of finding your core group involves the difficulty of trial and error. One guild doesn't work? Try another. That doesn't work? Next. Exhaust your server or find some on the web you think you'd click with? That's when this option is important. Locking it behind a pay wall isn't good for the game. We're long past the XI era of someone running off with an LS bank and changing identities to avoid persecution.

    The second step is the ability to communicate and interact with anyone on any server at any time without the need of party finders. This may seem counter-intuitive with the first point, but your home server would limit things like who you could trade with, guild perks, and auction availability. What it would allow, however, is more minor PUG activity like chasing FATEs if that's your thing or simply taking people out for a test drive on demand before committing to the server hop. Any friends you did happen to have on your old server wouldn't be lost, either. RIFT does this and I do believe it's to the game's benefit. Functionally, the servers wind up more like Channels, which some may be familiar with from other MMOs.
    Agreed, although there are issues with people scamming/running from servers. They did mention a raid finder, and Yoshi-P has said previously he'd like to see a cross server raid system, so they could be linked. But I fear its too little too late.

    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    Seeing some of you guys assert that people need to get kicked in the nuts or grow hair on their chest just to enjoy the game(s) makes me sad. I've been through this song and dance enough to guess that my words will be twisted into wanting hand-outs, OF tier whatever, and all that blah, but the real ugly aspect of the raid culture is its sociopathic enabling that goes on. It feels like doublespeak to demand people bond on one end, but then to promote restrictions and punishments on the other. Do you REALLY want friends, or just people to help you reliably get shit? I have no issue with the latter, but don't use the former as a smokescreen because you don't want to come off as selfish.
    It really isn't sociopathic enabling at all. Just because you've had some shit times with groups, doesn't mean its like that all the time. I raid with friends, and most patches I reliably get shit done. The groups been a bit up in the air this patch cycle, but I know if I really had the time to go for Server or even world firsts, i'd be able to find a group for it. Why? Because I know how to play my class.

  7. #127

    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    perhaps XIV and other MMOs are suffering a bit too much from the devs telling us how to play instead of just letting us play
    XI was a sandbox, there was a world, there was stuff in it, go do the stuff in the world however you can, don't come crying to us if you get killed by everything (see: get better, group up, talk, figure shit out).

    XIV is a theme park, you must be this tall, keep your hands in the cart at all times, ride is on rails and is exactly X mins long, you have met the maximum content limit for the week, come back next Tuesday.

  8. #128
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    I just think what I want to see is a game which is a halfway point between where xiv is now and where xi was back in the day.

  9. #129

    I agree that more challenging content is needed, but why did you say Diadem was a step in the right direction in regards to that in your previous post?
    Mainly as an alternate gear source that doesn't rely on statics or the usual guild politics. I'm not saying Diadem is perfect, if that's the concern.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    Mainly as an alternate gear source that doesn't rely on statics or the usual guild politics. I'm not saying Diadem is perfect, if that's the concern.
    You don't need to rely on guild politics or statics to clear content though to get gear. You can just faceroll diadem for it, or get good at the game and have a decent reputation. Sure i'd like some tough solo content, but its a MMO for a reason and I don't think players should be rewarded with high end gear for solo content.

  11. #131

    You don't need to rely on guild politics or statics to clear content though to get gear.
    So, how reliably do you think anyone would be able to PUG Savage Alexander and get a full gear set out of it? Stating possibility isn't the same as practicality. Playing this way is basically running counter to raid culture and simply not worth the hassle for a large number of players.

    Meanwhile, you're also making it sound like while you'd want harder solo content, you'd still want the bar set lower. Sorry, but no, it's time to stop worrying about people you'll never play with actually getting things on their own terms. The ego angle won't get anywhere with me. So, I'd avoid jumping down that rabbit hole if you don't want to waste your time.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by haroldsaxon View Post
    You don't need to rely on guild politics or statics to clear content though to get gear. You can just faceroll diadem for it, or get good at the game and have a decent reputation. Sure i'd like some tough solo content, but its a MMO for a reason and I don't think players should be rewarded with high end gear for solo content.
    That's my main complain about modern MMOs right now. Everything is designed so you don't have to deal with meanies people. It seems the only way they found to remove any social interactions that could hurt your feelings is to simply get rid of them completely.

    Someone could probably dig somewhere my post on allakazham and laugh at my post asking for help for Genkai 2 but events like these made having a community actually useful.

    For fuck sake most of the FC chat right now is a variance of: "Anyone wanna help with my dailies then I'm gonna head back to Fallout 4/MGSV".

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    So, how reliably do you think anyone would be able to PUG Savage Alexander and get a full gear set out of it? Stating possibility isn't the same as practicality. Playing this way is basically running counter to raid culture and simply not worth the hassle for a large number of players.

    Meanwhile, you're also making it sound like while you'd want harder solo content, you'd still want the bar set lower. Sorry, but no, it's time to stop worrying about people you'll never play with actually getting things on their own terms. The ego angle won't get anywhere with me. So, I'd avoid jumping down that rabbit hole if you don't want to waste your time.
    But that isn't down to raid culture though. Its down to shit players. If you aren't a shit player, you have FFLogs/good gameplay to back yourself up, you get invites to linkshells or FC's to join runs when you can.

    I work full time, I static raid with friends, but i've had invites to linkshells or parties for AS4 groups. If you are good enough, you will get invites. In some cases, you can be mediocre or shit tier and still get it done. A tank in my old FC that couldn't solo tank Titan Ex in i130 gear has AS4 down on Odin - because he offers himself to groups that need spares. Same with the WHM my group had at the start of Final Coil who got kicked because he couldn't do T11 mechanics.

    Where have I said i'd want to set the bar lower for solo content? Please don't put words in my mouth. This is nothing about ego. If you are a good player, you don't have an issue getting invites to good groups. You don't need to play politics or FC's. I was in one of the most hated fc's on my server a few months back. Still got invited to sell runs. Why? Because i'm not shit at the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragns View Post
    That's my main complain about modern MMOs right now. Everything is designed so you don't have to deal with meanies people. It seems the only way they found to remove any social interactions that could hurt your feelings is to simply get rid of them completely.

    Someone could probably dig somewhere my post on allakazham and laugh at my post asking for help for Genkai 2 but events like these made having a community actually useful.

    For fuck sake most of the FC chat right now is a variance of: "Anyone wanna help with my dailies then I'm gonna head back to Fallout 4/MGSV".
    Well, my current FC's chat is mostly dead, but that is mainly because we chat on external programs (Slack and TS3). A few people are fate grinding for relics. When I hop on I fate grind alt classes while I watch TV/Films or reading. But there isn't any need to go out and make friends in FFXIV. Can't say about other MMO's because this is my first MMO (Not including PSO way back when).

    But this happens with every other game I play. If you give someone some advice, even if you aren't being a dick to them, people fly off the handle like a tumblrina. If people want to play not interact, fine, but they shouldn't expect to be able to have access to everything in an MMO, they should play a single player RPG. Its not like there isn't a shortage of them at the moment, and it would probably be cheaper for them.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    I like the idea of moving from one mmo to another. Just play games, I usually play enough that having FFXIV as a game isn't even slightly offensive.

    People are fucking weird.
    Moving between games is probably the best approach in today's environment. FFXI kept me hooked for more than half a decade, but with most other games, I rarely have a sub going for more than two to three months. As a result, I just hop from game to game with a group of friends, from WoW to FFXIV and back to FFXI. Though, admittedly, I'm at a point where MMORPGs seem less and less interesting to me, so I'm not even sure if that model can hold up.

    It was different when I went to school, but with the limited amount of time my job leaves me with, I never even finished Heavensward's storyline. I think we got to 52 before I realized that this wasn't what I want to spend my time on. I would have liked to finish at least the storyline, but I couldn't justify going through the (from my point of view) insanely boring grind that was required because the storyline was locked behind level tresholds, which, in turn, forced me to do ever-repeating fetch-quests, dungeons and FATEs.

    Never thought the day would come, but I think I've grown out of modern MMORPGs. Though I could definitely get back into actual EXP-parties with camps; socializing and lots of crabs, that would be great.

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    Yeah, it's not surprising to grow out of this style of MMO pretty quickly, especially when its design is still behind MMOs that came before it. I liked how XI gated content and story since it was more gated towards end-game than simple "here's the storyline so far." A lot of the gated stories were usually near the end of the expansion and only CoP, WoTG and Adoulin gated story in between (and only if you consider having to do side quests, level cap and "exploration" as gates.)

    In XIV it just felt...annoying since the game is already designed to hand things out for the most part so even though it's not a huge deal..there's nothing to do but said storyline..and you have to go grind Fates/dungeons/area quests (hurts yourself if you chose to level multiple 60s.)

  16. #136

    I'm getting really confused as to what people are complaining about.

    Just don't stop to think about it.

    also lol @ I like how XI gated content/story but apparently when XIV does it it's the devil

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldelphia View Post
    I just think what I want to see is a game which is a halfway point between where xiv is now and where xi was back in the day.
    This is what you're all trying to say so awkwardly.

  17. #137

    I'd just be cool if more games embraced more Magian-esque upgrade systems. Just no HMP-type phases or going overboard on boss kills like 50 Apademaks (averaged horn drop rates). Do that for every gear slot and people can keep themselves busy for a while. Or they could raid and cut down the grind.

  18. #138
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    5,687
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    8
    FFXIV Character
    Viper Beam
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    Quetzalcoatl

    Quote Originally Posted by haroldsaxon View Post
    If you are good at what you do, you won't have an issue finding a group to raid with - be it a static, a linkshell or an FC.
    The problem is when your static loses 1 person (or, god forbid, 2+ people) and you're forced to recruit for replacements. Do you recruit from your FC/LS? Oh wait, everyone else in your FC/LS likely either a) is already in a static or b) couldn't get a static [after their static broke] for endgame content and stopped playing seriously. So you're thrown into endless cycles of recruiting randos from PUGs. There's no such thing as building up a roster because all raiding is done with exactly 8 people: no more, and no less.

    That's the main advantage of XI's endgame over XIV: group flexibility. You could go farm sky pops with 3 or 23 people, you could do Limbus with 4 or 40, you could do Dynamis with 12 or 50.

    This game has no flexibility: you do endgame with exactly 8 people, no more, no less. And even if they made a 24-man real endgame raid, then chances are you'd be required to bring in exactly 24. (And no, you can't just pick up randoms to fill up empty slots, because then your loot distribution is screwed up and you can't use any sort of DKP or other long-term loot rules.)

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: Yoshida's slavish devotion to stiff rails that dictate EXACTLY how every piece of content should be completed is a bug, not a feature.

  19. #139
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: Yoshida's slavish devotion to stiff rails that dictate EXACTLY how every piece of content should be completed is a bug, not a feature.


    I really don't see how Yoshida can make 8 man content that is flexible. He does have the staff to do 3 tiers of difficulty. The continent requires 2 tanks at a minimum and beyond that the damage being dished out requires 2 healing and 4 DPS with everyone chipping in on DPS.

    A lot of mechanics start breaking down when you throw in 7 people. Hey there goes our solo heal in A4 straight to the quarantine. Groups that manage the first round of clears are usually able to manage to clear it with 7 rather than four. Imagine if you couldn't sell content.

    I understand what you're selling but until Yoshida accepts the idea of thordan ex tier mechanics in a 24 man raid then we're SOL for flexibility for raiding.

  20. #140

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    group flexibility
    but balance omg <insert smug comments about how XI had shitty battle system, class system, and everything else>
    fuck XIVs job system, by making things "balanced" they made everything exactly the same, since everyone has to be equal no one has anything of their own

    The stiff rail system not only applies to content but the actual gameplay. There is 1 single way to play the job you're playing to play it correctly, if you're pressing the wrong button you're already fucked. To me that's another huge issue with the game. They blew their load with adding all those abilities already when we were 50 and now it's just a clusterfuck of useless keys and shit you need to press for little effect. I guess what I hate most about it is that the entire game feels like it's about maintaining same exact tempo over and over. What I liked about 1.23 and XI was that the gameplay was all about build up to something. XIV to me is like an MMO version of guitar hero. There's specific keys you need to hit at specific time and there is no room for anything else.

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