4Gamer Interview: Yoshida responds to player questions/requests

[Silenka]

Skill trees can easily go awry. I look to Path of Exile as an example of this, where a mistake made early on or a patch can basically wipe out a character unless you want to throw RL money at a respec.

What? I knew there was a reason I didn't like that game, despite loving ARPGs.

[arus2001]

Yeah, you can pick one slot on the grid per level, adjacent to prior choices. They give a couple resets while leveling, but it's only for one choice and not all of them. So, figure you spend like 20 hours getting to 70, only to find out your build sucks in the higher difficulties due to resists or other bullshit mechanics.

D2 was similar, but even Blizz wised up and implemented full respecs, even if somewhat convoluted with material hunting.

[Lucavi]

When 2.0 came out and ~i70 PLDs (with ~i70 healers) were able to tank Caduceus through stacks while ~i70 WARs got flattened, this was viewed as an unacceptable state, requiring WAR to receive a bunch of defensive cooldowns in response.

Can we not talk about those dark days? I'll never forget the damage I took as an absurdly-geared War, even on fucking T1 snakes...

Also, hotbar crowding becomes less of an issue when abilities begin to have their affects molded into passives triggered under different circumstances instead out outright "push button to receive +5% defense for 20 seconds" tripe. As you make new abilities, convert old, bloated abilities to passive or merge them into pre-existing abilities that have room for more depth. This has been going on in other MMOs since other MMOs have existed. There's no reason for 2.0 to exist in a vacuum.

[Alisha]

as a controller player, hotbar bloat currently only concerns me on jobs with pets thank to the expanded hotbars. but 2 expansions from now it would definitely be an issue.

[Taint]

Hotbar fix would be easy (and more fun IMO)

Going to use PLD as an example since they have 3 combos.

A Fast > A Savage > A Halone
A Fast > A Savage > B Royal
A Fast > B Riot > B Goring

Two buttons to control all 6 abilities. Make this optional for the snowflakes that like to spam solo Halones for some incredibly bad reason or let them assign solo Halone to "C" etc.


And to add to the PLD discussion: PLD is very bad. Yes it does well in Thordan but you need a NIN for hate. WARx2 crushes PLD/WAR. Most people fall back on Hallowed but as Niiro pointed out being able to effectively use it once per fight makes it the worst of the 3. PLDs transition from 50-60 is terrible. Goring is fine. Royal couldn't be more boring. Sheltron is good for long cast stuff but fundamentally limits the game design. Clemency is a joke. DV feels unfinished, needs a visual cue and a lower CD.

PLD OT DPS being "ok" is not acceptable either. Its the lowest of the 3 tanks and suffers from the worst TP management. PLDs MT DPS is lowest and their threat generation is the lowest. They are the worst AoE job in the game, a non clerics WHM wrecks them.

PLDs mitigation is barely above DRK/WAR. WAR has the most precise mitigation however making it optimal in a lot of situations when played well. PLD will get better as they slowly lift the shield nerf that came with 3.0.

[Destinye]

as a controller player, hotbar bloat currently only concerns me on jobs with pets thank to the expanded hotbars. but 2 expansions from now it would definitely be an issue.

Yeah, it's not too terrible on controller just wish Macros were more....snappy? Rather than what they do now which alone could help for some things.

[Alisha]

you do realize what happened the last time stacking multiples of the same job was preferred right?(2.0 bard) I will be absolutely shocked if war doesn't get nerfed in 3.2. people like to claim war isn't OP, the other tanks are just bad but in my opinion every job that is considered top tier is able to do too much and doesn't leave much design space for future jobs.
whm: throughput healer and hot healer(I was personally hoping Ast was gonna be a hot healer like resto druid but nope)
sch: pet healer and dps healer and support healer and shield healer
war: dps tank + support tank + high mitigation tank + self healing tank
drg: high burst + sustained + raid dps buff at no cost to the drg's personal dps. battle litany should at least cost some blood of the dragon time so theres an opportunity cost.

[Silenka]

I wonder if WHM, SCH and WAR players would say they're happiest though. They are by far some of the least annoying/feel most rewarding to play in the game. I would add AST to that list if its dps output was a bit better and DRK seems up there with WAR to me as well. As it is the only way you get your kicks in this game is going "teehee look at how I slaughtered everything/did more dps than so and so/saved the run with heals on my super OP job".

Meanwhile the BRDs and BLMs of the world are pissed about having to stand still or lose dps and every dps class is fed up with overly complex and repetitive rotations with no room for error or anything interesting. I don't know if the tanks and healers (sans PLD and some would argue AST) got OP because of the relative freedom their roles have or what. DRG is fairly OP too but I haven't heard a lot of people happy with DRG and its rotation, seems it's OP at the cost of any fun or wiggle room in its rotation.

[haroldsaxon]

I don't mind the complexity of BLM. I just feel the reward is poor compared to Melee classes.

[Niiro]

If being top DPS isn't reward enough, I'm not sure what is.

[haroldsaxon]

If being top DPS isn't reward enough, I'm not sure what is.

They aren't. Foe's DPS is attributed to Bards. AS4 depends on who gets sacrificed, but in AS3 if you look at FF Logs, Monks consistently out DPS BLM's.

[Kaisha]

I wonder if WHM, SCH and WAR players would say they're happiest though. They are by far some of the least annoying/feel most rewarding to play in the game.

I'd consider being a healer one of the most annoying roles to play in Savage.

But outside of that? Well, I still get shit-tier tanks on a daily basis in DF that makes me have to pay extra attention to the current status of the pull and whether or not they know how to stun a bee so I can carry their ass with my instant-heals.

[Niiro]

They aren't. Foe's DPS is attributed to Bards. AS4 depends on who gets sacrificed, but in AS3 if you look at FF Logs, Monks consistently out DPS BLM's.

That's because the mechanics interrupt BLM far more, they still have the highest potential single target DPS.

[Silenka]

Well, I still get shit-tier tanks on a daily basis in DF that makes me have to pay extra attention to the current status of the pull and whether or not they know how to stun a bee so I can carry their ass with my instant-heals.

Carry game is ridiculous on healer and one of the major reasons I like it compared to other roles. It can perform every role in the game to some extent. I have tanked pulls, out-dpsed the dps, stunned the shit that needs to be stunned, and saved parties from a wipe with pro heals on WHM and AST more times than I can count. For me, truly the most rewarding feeling the game has to offer is when you can perform one-man what is supposed to take two or three others of different roles to accomplish. When you know, even if the others in your group don't realize, that they'd all be on the floor if not for you. You never have to feel helpless on heals because there's always something you can attempt to do to save a bad situation or pick up the slack for a member who's underperforming. Unless all your CDs are down of course, then it's "welp we're fucked"

Mind you, it's still shit compared to playing a game that's actually fun, but that was always what made me feel good in XIV.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Ditto. Which is also why I prefer tank over DPS. At least as Tank I have SOME control/ability to carry. Dps... you're kinda fucked.

[Edelweiss]

I wonder if WHM, SCH and WAR players would say they're happiest though. They are by far some of the least annoying/feel most rewarding to play in the game. I would add AST to that list if its dps output was a bit better and DRK seems up there with WAR to me as well. As it is the only way you get your kicks in this game is going "teehee look at how I slaughtered everything/did more dps than so and so/saved the run with heals on my super OP job".

WAR and SCH players should be very happy with the ease of playing their jobs, as well as the sheer versatility and power they have. As a former PLD, fuck PLD. PLD honestly feels much more difficult to play well; the lack of an AoE like Overpower just makes the huge disadvantages it has much more apparent. Add to that the rigidity of your mitigation versus WAR and it just becomes depressing.

Meanwhile the BRDs and BLMs of the world are pissed about having to stand still or lose dps and every dps class is fed up with overly complex and repetitive rotations with no room for error or anything interesting. I don't know if the tanks and healers (sans PLD and some would argue AST) got OP because of the relative freedom their roles have or what. DRG is fairly OP too but I haven't heard a lot of people happy with DRG and its rotation, seems it's OP at the cost of any fun or wiggle room in its rotation.

They went way overboard with the positionals and adding unnecessary shit to rotations. I hate fucking playing DDs, especially MNK.

[Silenka]

Monk is truly the worst.

[lilbubbles]

I only queue as dps in df though cause..

If the party is going to be shit, at least it will be over fast.

I'd rather wipe 10 times than watch the paint on the mob's hp bar dry.

[Lucavi]

I don't mind the complexity of BLM. I just feel the reward is poor compared to Melee classes.

Its not even complex. It simply has just enough strict movements that must be performed to make you feel completely frustrated in the system itself when you are ultimately disrupted from performing said movements. Its like a stupid dance routine while walking on a tightrope that doesn't have to be there. You spend too much time focusing on the rigid steps to feel any appreciation or joy for the act of dancing itself.

[Lujei]

Its not even complex. It simply has just enough strict movements that must be performed to make you feel completely frustrated in the system itself when you are ultimately disrupted from performing said movements. Its like a stupid dance routine while walking on a tightrope that doesn't have to be there. You spend too much time focusing on the rigid steps to feel any appreciation or joy for the act of dancing itself.

Exactly this. You're have two simultaneous timers acting on you just to be able to perform a single basic rotation (AF, Eno) and moving once to dodge fucks the entire thing up. One timer was perfectly okay; CDs are totally fine, you don't need them to operate. Two timers and no dodging is past the point that I can enjoy something.